Obama-Biden 'AttackWatch' site is Obsessed with 'Swift Boat attacks' !

Originally posted by JIMC5499

Originally posted by Indigo5
How does this argument help Romney?

I never implied that it did. What you choose to read into it is your problem. I just stated a fact.

ahhh...OK. Well you jumped into a response I made for rabbit who was contending something different. I assumed you were backing his assertation.

edit on 20-8-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by JIMC5499

 

My issue is (1)...the "never served!" line of attack employed by Romney supporters on this thread seems comical in the context of ROmney dodging the draft 4 consecutive times...and

“It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam, but nor did I take any actions to remove myself from the pool of young men who were eligible for the draft,” Romney told the newspaper.

....

www.nwherald.com...

Romney seems to be a pathological liar.

Romney is a pathological liar as compared to what? It helps to have an alternative that isn't actually worse than the problem we're talking about. In this case, Obama isn't an example where I ask where he's lied......but where he's been 100% honest. I don't suggest he outright lies on everything, because he doesn't. However, even the small things seem shaded and hedged on the truth.....as if dishonesty is such a core part of his personality, he doesn't know where the lines are.


Now.... If Romney has outright lied on the Vietnam War status...I'm interested to hear more on that and you sound like you have looked into it.. So... If there IS something to it, you have quotes of where he misrepresented or outright said one thing when the other was the actual truth right? I anxiously await support to your assertions.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Now.... If Romney has outright lied on the Vietnam War status...I'm interested to hear more on that and you sound like you have looked into it.. So... If there IS something to it, you have quotes of where he misrepresented or outright said one thing when the other was the actual truth right? I anxiously await support to your assertions.

Hey Rabbit - Honestly don't mean to offend...but WTF????????????

I rpovided his direct lie above...I qouted it...I underlined it...I linked to the source.

He told a reporter he took no action to avoid the draft....while he applied for and apparently pulled strings to get (the Morman church was very hesitant to give religious deferments)...FOUR consecutive deferments from being eligable for the draft.

www.votevets.org...

reply to post by Indigo5

Actually... I was hoping you'd come back and post. I didn't feel I could properly double post and pile on a response when I'd honestly missed a very important factor to this story prior to the last reply. Doom on me, I figured...missing something major. You've come back though! So..my hour or so researching won't have been in vain. First, your assertion though..and it's an interesting one, given the link you gave me yourself.

Here is a piece from your own cited source...and honestly, I wouldn't have known this to point out if your source hadn't done it for me. I was born the same year the combat operations in Vietnam were winding down and largely coming to an end (73) so...I wouldn't have known this personally.

Though an early supporter of the Vietnam War, Romney avoided military service at the height of the fighting after high school by seeking and receiving four draft deferments, according to Selective Service records. They included college deferments and a 31-month stretch as a "minister of religion" in France, a classification for Mormon missionaries that the church at the time feared was being overused. The country was cutting troop levels by the time he became eligible for the draft, and his lottery number was not called.

It's fascinating and good to have learned because it essentially kills the entire subject and point as moot, on the spot. According to that source you found, he was never actually called...and never WOULD have been called anyway. So we can at least consider why else a man would have wanted to go to college and Missionary work. Indeed.....It's why I'm glad you did come back..

Missionary Work in most Christian Faiths is important but FAR from expected and certainly not demanded in literal or even peer pressure ways to go pursue. Those who DO are truly good people and I've known a couple who've done their time in other parts of the world. It's a very self-sacrificing way to serve and I assure you, Missionaries are NOT living like it's a vacation. No Church funds their people like it's a trip to party on.

In the case of the Mormon Church...Missionary work is something entirely different...and of course, we know Mitt is a dedicated Mormon.

Here is one note on Missionary status within the LDS Church:

That Mormons do missionary work is one of the Church's most recognized characteristics. Right now, tens of thousands of missionaries are walking, driving or riding their bikes around the world, handing out copies of the Book of Mormon and sharing the gospel with the people they meet. Why do these people, most of them under the age of 25, volunteer to leave their homes at their own expense and dedicate a period of their lives to preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ?

52,000 missionaries are currently serving in 350 missions around the world. They proselytize in every country where the government and political climate allow it. Many missionaries grow to love the areas in which they serve so much that they find it harder to come home after their missions are over than it was for them to leave in the first place. They return home as informed ambassadors of the nations and cultures where they served.

Source

Missionary work for a young Mormon man isn't an escape or travel to see the world and I don't expect anyone without Faith to understand it....but to Mormons, it's a calling and core part of their Faith. I don't have to agree with it..or see the logic to it, to understand THEY do and that's good enough.

President Hinckley extends the call for missions of 40 hours or more a week at home or elsewhere in the world. If you are a physically able, emotionally stable young man, pray about the opportunity and responsibility you have to the Lord to prepare yourself to be a full-time missionary. That includes understanding the scriptures, being obedient, keeping yourself clean, pure, and worthy to be endowed in the temple. When of age, accept a call by the President of the Church to serve for two years as an emissary of the Lord.

Source

Even the two years wasn't random or arbitrary, but the standard expected term for a Mormon Missionary to serve once reaching 18 and able in both Faith and physical health.

What this issue is doing is literally attacking Mitt Romney THROUGH and BY his Church and duties he performed as a member of it. This is the LOWEST form of attack Obama could ever bring..and what I feared they planned when they all but backed Romney in the primaries themselves. It's FAR beneath the dignity of a U.S. President to even mention...and this one, far beyond most.

(Especially when the draft was, by your own source, never even a *REAL* factor for Mitt at his point in time)

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


If I could flag your last post I would. The truth was right up front the entire time.

Good work!

Anyone who has ever flown out of Salt Lake City airport has seen these young missionaries as they take their first steps towards service.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000


Here is a piece from your own cited source...and honestly, I wouldn't have known this to point out if your source hadn't done it for me.

Though an early supporter of the Vietnam War, Romney avoided military service at the height of the fighting after high school by seeking and receiving four draft deferments, according to Selective Service records. They included college deferments and a 31-month stretch as a "minister of religion" in France, a classification for Mormon missionaries that the church at the time feared was being overused. The country was cutting troop levels by the time he became eligible for the draft, and his lottery number was not called.

It's fascinating and good to have learned because it essentially kills the entire subject and point as moot, on the spot.

Hey Rabbit....I hate to piss on what must have felt like a "gotcha" moment, but you are confused on what you read.

The article states that by the time Mitt's FOURTH deferment expired..."The country was cutting troop levels by the time he became eligible for the draft, and his lottery number was not called."

When the article states "eligable" it is referring to his FOUR deferments expiring. Mitt didn't apply for a FIFTH because by then we were withdrawing from Viet Nam and the rick of being drafted was non-existent.

I'll keep it simple..

Mitt was born March 4th, 1947

Turned 18 years old and eligable for the draft in 1965 and if not for his FOUR DEFERMENTS that he sought and recieved, would have been eligable during the entirity of the Viet Nam war.

You cited that paragraph...but didn't read this one?

He became available for military service at the end of 1970 when his deferments ran out and he could have been drafted. But by that time, America was beginning to slice its troop levels, and Romney’s relatively high lottery number – 300 out of 365 – was not called.

And lastly...you idea that missionary work was demanded by his church???

NOT SO...JUST THE OPPOSITE

He was granted the deferment even as some young Mormon men elsewhere were denied that same status, which became increasingly controversial in the late 1960s. The Mormon church, a strong supporter of American involvement in Vietnam, ultimately limited the number of church missionaries allowed to defer their military service using the religious exemption.

Do your emotions demand that you read/comprehend certain passages, ignore others, and contort the sum to meet your emotional/idealogical yearnings?.. Not unusual...but your integrity and intellect is better served by objectivity or at least and honest reading of the facts.