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A Moral Inquiry: Iran-Israel

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posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:30 AM
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If it was definitively known that Iran had every intention to attack Israel with a nuclear bomb, would you act?

In other words, if the options were:

  • Defend an innocent state of 6 million Jews against a theocratic bully intent on genocide, and deal with the geopolitical consequences, or

  • Don't defend Israel in fear that attacking Iran preemptively would ignite a massive regional war, possibly creating the conditions for another World War.

    If these are your two options, which do you pick? Where do you stand morally?

    Shall another 6 million Jews be "sacrificed" (which is what the pitiful word 'holocaust' means) for the sake of some grander issue, or will they be protected from an invidious threat against their lives?




  • posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:57 AM
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    what is isreal innocent of??????????????

    bus bombings in the 1950s?
    or perfecting the art of looking innocent, while boldly committing sins????


    seeeeya



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 03:21 AM
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    reply to post by dontreally
     


    I hate these "you only have 2 options" questions because it's putting Man between a rock and a hard place, it's kind of like when a Nazi at a Concentration Camp asks a parent to decide which child lives or dies.



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 03:28 AM
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    Well if amadinnerjacket does nuke israel. No one one question the 6 million figure this time arround. So any survivors will be able to call this a real holocaust. Also when its done and people ask why. Im sure the palistinian ghettos and settlers stealing some one elses land will be reason enough.



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 03:28 AM
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    Originally posted by dontreally
    If it was definitively known that Iran had every intention to attack Israel with a nuclear bomb, would you act?

    In other words, if the options were:

  • Defend an innocent state of 6 million Jews against a theocratic bully intent on genocide, and deal with the geopolitical consequences, or

  • Don't defend Israel in fear that attacking Iran preemptively would ignite a massive regional war, possibly creating the conditions for another World War.

    If these are your two options, which do you pick? Where do you stand morally?

    Shall another 6 million Jews be "sacrificed" (which is what the pitiful word 'holocaust' means) for the sake of some grander issue, or will they be protected from an invidious threat against their lives?


  • Sorry but these too "options" are invalid, because you are putting Israel on a pedestal. I think you need to rethink your position on whom would nuke who:

    Israel, who has thousands of illegal nuclear warheads at its disposal and has threatened Iran numerous times?

    Or Iran, who has no nuclear warheads and has only said she would defend herself against an attack?

    Israel "innocent" LMFAO



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 03:34 AM
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    reply to post by ideasarebulletproof
     


    Israel has NEVER threatened Iran with a nuclear warhead!



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 04:19 AM
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    Originally posted by bluemirage5
    reply to post by ideasarebulletproof
     


    Israel has NEVER threatened Iran with a nuclear warhead!


    Has Iran ever threatened Israel with a nuclear warhead?

    lol



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 04:27 AM
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    If Iran nukes Israel, then of course Iran would be wiped off the map not only by the 200+ nuclear missiles that Israel has, but also by America. That is why Iran won't be nuking Israel. They don't even have a nuke, for god sake.

    But nice way to set up another thread discussing Iran's nuclear threat, which is none existant at the moment, compared to Israel, who seem hell bent on attacking Iran and ensuring they never get a nuke.

    I sometimes wonder about this website. The amount of Iran threads that have cropped up in the last 3 days is a bit weird.

    All seem to frame the debate in a similar fashion No one seems to be concerned about whether Iran has a nuke or not. No one want's to listen to what the regime of Iran have said on the issue of nuclear weapons and no one wants to talk about Israels 200+ stock of ready to go nuclear missiles.
    This thread has the added dimension that one of the choices will makes you the equivalent of Adolf Hitler. Nice touch OP
    edit on 20-8-2012 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 05:46 AM
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    reply to post by dontreally
     



    Defend an innocent state of 6 million Jews against a theocratic bully intent on genocide, and deal with the geopolitical consequences, or


    If this "theocratic bully" was intent on genocide... they would have probably started with its own Jewish population. Instead 25,000 Jews live safely in Iran and can move around without any barriers or checkpoints...or being bombed or fired upon.

    This is something that the "innocent state of 6 million Jews" can learn from Iran.

    edit on 20-8-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 06:39 AM
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    The 25k Jewish people that are living in Iran are known as the Neturei Karta and are highly opposing a Jewish state in Israel until the Messiah comes.
    They are a bunch of religious extremists, only time has brought them to the same side of the spectrum as the Islamic religious extremists. Something like the Jewish equivalent of Westboro Baptist Church.

    The fact that this little info that there are 25k Jews in Iran is brought up every two minutes in ATS is nothing more than hilarious, as if there are no Arabs / Muslims / Persians living peacefully in Israel (not the West Bank/Gaza, Israel) regardless of their political views.


    Besides, you guys are being asked a simple question. If Iran does publicly state it's intent on nuking Israel, would you support it?
    edit on 20-8-2012 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 07:31 AM
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    reply to post by IsraeliGuy
     




    The 25k Jewish people that are living in Iran are known as the Neturei Karta and are highly opposing a Jewish state in Israel until the Messiah comes.


    They are still jews regardless of what you think of them.
    And the fact that there are jews living comfortably in Iran pretty much refutes the OPs hysterical claim that Iran was intent on the genocide of the jews.




    The fact that this little info that there are 25k Jews in Iran is brought up every two minutes in ATS is nothing more than hilarious, as if there are no Arabs / Muslims / Persians living peacefully in Israel (not the West Bank/Gaza, Israel) regardless of their political views.


    Irans 25 K jews will be brought up on ATS whenever ignorant claims that Iran is anti-semitic are being made. You cant call a regime anti-semitic, if they allow jews to co-exist peacefully.





    Besides, you guys are being asked a simple question. If Iran does publicly state it's intent on nuking Israel, would you support it?

    Well, that was not how the OP presented the question. There was something about one state being "innocent" and the other state being a "theocratic bully".

    To answer the question the way you put it across.... No. I would not support a nuclear strike on anybody.
    edit on 20-8-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 07:35 AM
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    Originally posted by shaneR
    what is isreal innocent of??????????????

    bus bombings in the 1950s?
    or perfecting the art of looking innocent, while boldly committing sins????


    seeeeya


    they are Gods Chosen hence why they are innocent regardless of anything they do wrong
    hence why only Palestinians and anyone against what Israel does are Evil


    still laughing my rear off at the two options in the OPs post



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 09:52 AM
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    I chosen my side : ISRAEL.


    Why?


    Shortly, because I have to take a side and I am blindly support Israel just like others support Iran.


    Does it have to be an ACCEPTABLE reason why I chose a side? I do not think so.


    For me, it is acceptable that Israel MUST bomb Iran because otherwise Iran will bomb Israel.Some consider that this is crazy and fearmongering and iran is just an angel.

    I don't care about WHY others support Iran and despise Israel.I do not care and I do not even try to make them consider other options.As I expected others NOT to ask me to change my mind.



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 10:28 AM
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    Originally posted by woodwardjnr
    If Iran nukes Israel, then of course Iran would be wiped off the map not only by the 200+ nuclear missiles that Israel has, but also by America. That is why Iran won't be nuking Israel. They don't even have a nuke, for god sake.

    But nice way to set up another thread discussing Iran's nuclear threat, which is none existant at the moment, compared to Israel, who seem hell bent on attacking Iran and ensuring they never get a nuke.

    I sometimes wonder about this website. The amount of Iran threads that have cropped up in the last 3 days is a bit weird.

    All seem to frame the debate in a similar fashion No one seems to be concerned about whether Iran has a nuke or not. No one want's to listen to what the regime of Iran have said on the issue of nuclear weapons and no one wants to talk about Israels 200+ stock of ready to go nuclear missiles.
    This thread has the added dimension that one of the choices will makes you the equivalent of Adolf Hitler. Nice touch OP
    edit on 20-8-2012 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)


    It is this point that comes up every now and then which really highlights why this is so tragic.

    As you say, Israel has 200+ nukes, Iran is not going to attack Israel because they would not stand a chance.

    AND YET, the entire pre text for war- that is going to cost billions in US tax payers money and thousands, if not millions of lives is based on the notion that Israel does not want Iran to get a nuclear weapon!

    When you look at the initial point, and then look at the reason why Israel wants to attack, it's mind blowing!

    And we keep paying our taxes to fund this madness.



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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    reply to post by semakka
     




    For me, it is acceptable that Israel MUST bomb Iran because otherwise Iran will bomb Israel.Some consider that this is crazy and fearmongering and iran is just an angel.


    Ok Fine.

    Let Israel start this war.

    But if Israel is defeated....then don't whine when Israel is overwhelmed by Irans conventional forces.

    Are you Ok with that??

    Or will you then claim that the Iranians are the "bad guys" because they wiped out the side that you picked....who actually STARTED the war?









    edit on 20-8-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 11:58 AM
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    reply to post by IsraeliGuy
     


    Calling Iranian Jews as extremists could'nt be further from the truth. They have had ample opportunity to immigrate to Israel as many Persian Jews have, but just because they made the decision to stay in Iran does NOT make them extremist. They are Iranian citizens with the same rights most other minority groups don't have.



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 12:00 PM
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    reply to post by semakka
     


    I don't choose sides of 2 lunatic Govts; I choose the side of the citizens of Israel and Iran, the little people who have no say in their Govt's foreign policies.



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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    reply to post by dontreally
     


    You should actually read something before you start spewing a bunch of propaganda, dontreally. If Israel and the U.S. really thought Iran's nuclear program was such a danger to civilization, then they would have already accepted Iran's proposal to have their uranium enrichment done by Turkey and Brazil a couple years ago. This proposal was rejected by the U.S., because their nuclear program is not the issue, and never has been. Truly, a child can see what's been going on in the Middle East over the last decade and figure out that the U.S. and Israel want to overthrow Iran's government, and they certainly don't give a damn about the lives of 80 million people in that country. They killed over a million people in Iraq, to "save" them from Saadam. The U.S. killed 3 million people in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia to save the world from communism. These governments of the U.S. and Israel, can only be stopped by massive dissent, not by throwing up the same propaganda a child can see through.



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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    Originally posted by IsraeliGuy
    The 25k Jewish people that are living in Iran are known as the Neturei Karta and are highly opposing a Jewish state in Israel until the Messiah comes.
    They are a bunch of religious extremists, only time has brought them to the same side of the spectrum as the Islamic religious extremists. Something like the Jewish equivalent of Westboro Baptist Church.

    The fact that this little info that there are 25k Jews in Iran is brought up every two minutes in ATS is nothing more than hilarious, as if there are no Arabs / Muslims / Persians living peacefully in Israel (not the West Bank/Gaza, Israel) regardless of their political views.


    Besides, you guys are being asked a simple question. If Iran does publicly state it's intent on nuking Israel, would you support it?
    edit on 20-8-2012 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)


    Ya know what? Just for you I'm going to say, Hell Yes.



    posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 10:53 PM
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    The U.S. gave Israel a buttload of nukes, military surplus and hardware and alot of american soldiers dual citizenshipped and signed up with the IDF. Netanyahu says Israel can take care of itself. Israel should be able to put Hamas and Hezbollah in their graves and any other of their flunkies Iran sends after them. Little brothers don't learn how to fight if big brother always steps in.





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