If Jesus was burnt at the stake, Would you pray before a box of Matches?

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posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by Stonedhenge
 


I understand your comments and please understand I am not trying to convince you one way or the other - merely offering you my take on your query.

There is, imo, a "spiritual" aspect to all of this which can perhaps be best explained this way:-

I have a beautiful loving wife and 2 wonderful kids (5 & 8), there is nothing that I would not do to protect them and keep them safe. If, for instance, I was required to lay down my life so that one or all of them may live - I would not hesitate to do so - because of the tremendous love I have for them.

Military personnel, Firefighters and the likes thereof regularly do the same thing.

If you know any parent that has lost a child you will know that they would give up their life so that the child can/could have lived.

It's a "love" thing.

I cannot explain my logic here because it is something I "feel" and cannot put into words.

My understanding is that Jesus laid down his life for us so that we may live (in eternity) - because of the love he has for all of us.

"God so loved us that he offered up his son so that whoever believed in him would have everlasting life"
"Go - love one another as I have loved you"

edit on 20-8-2012 by Sublimecraft because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Church of Christ doesn't generally have anything decorative but flowers, or occasionally a mural. heck, half of the buildings don't have a steeple, even. Crosses are less in favor on the Protestant side of things. Our division is further on, in the Reformation Movement. I haven't been to a single RM derivative with a cross on anything more than the songbooks--if on that! So, it is feasible to go into multiple church's throughout your life, and never see a cross in it.


reply to post by Stonedhenge
 


It's a little easier to go through the OT for the answer to that. From Adam & Eve, through Noah, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, the tribe of Israel, there was a consistent practice of sacrificing an animal to get God's attention. Even various other religions, sacrificing an animal was pretty consistently considered a way to interact with the deity in question. So, it's pretty ingrained in humanity to equate death with appeasement of wrath, whatnot. So, it's not too hard to grasp the reasons why a death should be needed, without going into specifics. We're hardwired for it.

Anyway, you got the Jews, who weren't supposed to eat blood. Why?

Genisis 9:4 -

"Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

Leviticus 17:11

`For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.'

Leviticus 17:14

"For as for the life of all flesh, its blood is identified with its life. Therefore I said to the sons of Israel, `You are not to eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood; whoever eats it shall be cut off.'

Deuteronomy 12:23

"Only be sure not to eat the blood, for the blood is the life, and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.

For those moments when people state: "His blood was shed" In that worldview, his bloodshed is the same as talking about the loss of life. But it does point out something: a lot of what is talked about is done in a matter that takes extra explanation to outsiders. Jargon.

Anyway: the story of Adam and Eve is about a perfect world of immortal vegetarians, who are only given one law to break, which is to not eat fruit from this 1 tree. To do so is to remove their immortality: they are warned that they will die for it. They eat it anyway, and death comes to the world.

Before going any further: believing in God as perfection doesn't matter. What does is that if there is a Creator, He's the one that makes the rules. That's it. I mean, we build a tree house as kids, we expect to be able to tell people to get out of our tree house, right? We own a house as adults, we expect people to abide by the rules of the house, right? Well, there's this thing called Trust, and humanity broke it with God (you could call it breaking the faith, but then faith and trust nearly mean the same thing--that's why loans are in good faith). Anyone who broke the trust of their relationship, or had their trust broken, knows what I'm talking about.

Anyway, what is sin? Sin is an archery term. It means to miss the target. It's failure. Now, Sin, Biblically, is talking about a specific set of failures--it's talking about those failures that break God's trust in us. It revokes immortality. We've failed to pay the debt of our loan (life, immortality, existence, you name it, the total of who we are is an investment because a Creator is not under obligation to create).

These are the terms: No Sin, or face Death.

Well, what happens when you get the opposite? No Sin = No Death Clause. To be immortal requires a sinless nature. Problem is that Humanity has a dual nature--the Bible calls it a Flesh vs. Spiritual nature. We cannot remain sinless (without failures) because it is natural to fulfill the urges of our natures.

What Christ is, is a total Man, who is totally God, as well. God never revoked His own immortality. He subjected Himself to a sinful nature (being human) that wanted fulfillment, but refused to bow to it. He was then executed.

Wait, we're back to the No Sin = No Death Clause. This dude is OWED immortality, but got death. God now owes a debt of life to Himself. As this guy is greater than the whole of creation, this debt is MASSIVE. Massive enough to cover the failure of everyone in the system.

See, if humanity got what it deserved, we wouldn't exist in the first place. Forget death. A creator doesn't owe his creation anything, as He doesn't have to create it. Does Booker T. Washington owe a Peanut Butter Sandwich anything? No! What a dumb question!

But for whatever reason, we've got a glitch in the system, a loophole, and it's up to us to take advantage of it.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by Pedro4077

Why do Christians pray before a Cross?





This seems to me, to be a sick cruel joke, mocking your Messiah


If Jesus was burnt at the stake would you wear a matchstick necklace?



If Jesus died of stab wounds, would you wear a knife Knecklace?



If Jesus was stoned to death would you wear a stone knecklace?



Christians, please help me understand.



1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.



Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:


This is why. We do not worship the cross, we worship Jesus who was slain on the cross. This was how the sacrifice was given.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 



Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:


This brought me an interesting thought. The cross, in its origins, has historically represented the overlap of man and god, as I said before. The vertical bar represents divinity, or heaven, and the horizontal bar represents man, or earth. It's a symbol of the belief that "God" is found within, not without.

This quote seems to be suggesting that line of thinking; additionally, "having slain the enmity thereby" seems to refer to the act of forgiveness, the act of loving someone despite the wrongs they have done, loving someone despite their ignorance and their harsh actions because of it. This connects thusly: love in spite of ignorance is part of being divine, or sharing divinity.

Have any of the Christians considered this tangent of thought? Or maybe I should inquire as to whether you're ALLOWED to think of it that way...
edit on 20-8-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:02 PM
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posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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So...now that we got that long stream of bs out of the way....

If the cross is so important to Christianity, why isn't crucifixion, or a reenactment of it, more common? We have the baby Jesus in the manger, we have the paintings of various scenes, we have movies about it...and yet no one carries a cross on their back or does anything with the cross besides worship before it.

Why not take a more physical part in it, if we're going to be so absorbed in physical form instead of just enjoying the idea in our heads?



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:20 PM
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The cross is important to Christians because it was the moment the ultimate sacrifice was made.
Sure it is a horrible execution, but it is viewed by Christians as the greatest act of love God could offer to sinful man.
It represents the turning point of history to believers.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by Pedro4077
 


Circular arguement #2342843746352. The cross brings remembrance for many. I don't pray in front of a cross myself, Jesus can hear me just fine crammed into a dark closet or on my knees anywhere in the world. So, lets not stereotype hm? The cross is a symbol of what it cost the Word of God, what he had to endure to save us all, and it is a painful reminder of what he suffered. We would do him a great disservice if we allowed ourselves to forget the price he paid for us.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by MeesterB
 


Killing his son for a species that he knew would go back to its old ways?

Seems legit.



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by MeesterB
 


Killing his son for a species that he knew would go back to its old ways?

Seems legit.


Says someone who knows nothing but the opinions of others. :shk:



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 



We would do him a great disservice if we allowed ourselves to forget the price he paid for us.


Oh, but let's forget that we're not supposed to judge but love each other...



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity


This brought me an interesting thought. The cross, in its origins, has historically represented the overlap of man and god, as I said before. The vertical bar represents divinity, or heaven, and the horizontal bar represents man, or earth. It's a symbol of the belief that "God" is found within, not without.

This quote seems to be suggesting that line of thinking; additionally, "having slain the enmity thereby" seems to refer to the act of forgiveness, the act of loving someone despite the wrongs they have done, loving someone despite their ignorance and their harsh actions because of it. This connects thusly: love in spite of ignorance is part of being divine, or sharing divinity.

Have any of the Christians considered this tangent of thought? Or maybe I should inquire as to whether you're ALLOWED to think of it that way...
edit on 20-8-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


I am allowed to think however I want. I would question though, are most anti-religious people allowed to think outside the box? When a group of anti-religious people are together, do they remain cohesive through thought, so one has to be anti-religious also to be accepted?

We will never be divine, we are human. The cross is more than just a bridge, it is accepting the cruel death of an innocent man in our place. We are the sinful ones and nothing we do in ourselves can make us less sinful, because we have the sin nature in us.

But the separation can never be fixed by us, we are just too far apart from God. That is the necessity of the atonement, it is a sacrifice that we can never make. What can you ever do to make things right with God? Make it right within yourself? How will you do that? Can you do enough to make it right within yourself? People search and search and search all their lives to find God within themselves and never addressing the core problem, humanity separated itself from God through sin. God shows us grace to bring us back to Him.

Can you read enough to get God? Can you talk enough to get God? Can you find God in you? Where is God in you? Is He a little ball in a little place deep inside of you that you need to coax out?



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 



We would do him a great disservice if we allowed ourselves to forget the price he paid for us.


Oh, but let's forget that we're not supposed to judge but love each other...


What does this have to do with the price of rice in China?





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