If Jesus was burnt at the stake, Would you pray before a box of Matches?

reply to post by Pedro4077


Ask the Catholics. I have no idea, never prayed in front of a cross before, cant help u out there, sorry.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Pedro4077

 

Ask the Catholics. I have no idea, never prayed in front of a cross before, cant help u out there, sorry.

*looks at your avatar*

Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Pedro4077

 

Ask the Catholics. I have no idea, never prayed in front of a cross before, cant help u out there, sorry.

*looks at your avatar*

I believe that's what us English call irony............Well that's my understanding of what Prezbo was saying anyway.......but Americans don't get sarcasm and irony do they? Well not many of them............I thought it was funny anyway....haha

reply to post by Pedro4077
I'm worried for you...hope you get well soon...

reply to post by davethebear


Well, it's time to braid the whips and drive them out of the temple, for making His house a den of theives, no?

Originally posted by manna2

Originally posted by OpenEars123
The answer is yes. Gullible people will always be (for the most part) gullible people.

And I guess you proved it.
That says enough and did not need a second line.
I don't pray to any idol or graven image. I am taken straight to the throne room when I pray.

Um, no. What they used was a truism. Tautology vs. Truism

a tautology is an argument that is true by how the arguer defined it.
[...]
A truism is distinct from a tautology in that it is not true by definition. Instead, a truism is an argument that is considered to be true by the vast majority of people; it is an argument that really is not disputable. For example, the argument that “genocide is bad” is a truism; virtually no one is going to argue that a genocide is good. Clearly, the truism argument is more tricky than a tautology in that it is rooted in what people believe and not pure logic, as a tautology argument is rooted. This said, let us explore how we might employ these arguments in a debate.

"that it is not true by definition": meaning that it's a saying that is not defined, but still accepted as truth by society as a whole.

Now:

How do you argue a truism? Pretty much the same way as a tautology. You state that the case is a truism, explain how it is a truism, and why this means the case should be rejected. For example, to show that “genocide is bad” is a truism, you would argue: “Saying that genocide is bad is a truism. No one disagrees with this. The government case makes it virtually impossible to argue against their case. You should dismiss the government case as being a truism unworthy of debate.” Follow up your truism argument with your own definitions and explanations of why these definitions provide a fairer ground for debate. Be wary of making a “truism” argument. Much of the community does not think that a truism means a government should lose. Usually, if a government runs a fairly common sense case, you can press for details about implementation so you can make arguments about the way in which they address or solve the problem they cite or make topicality arguments based on how their advocacy falls within the words of the resolution. Responding to a truism is a much easier task. Point to specific people who argue for the ground you have set for the opposition. Accuse the opposition of failing to debate the merits of the case or even tell them to “Stop whining!” Argue that it is the opposition’s job to find and defend their ground creatively. Further, assuming the opposition made arguments against your case, point out they made arguments thus showing that it is possible to argue against the case.

So, nothing has been proven, but it is generally accepted that the gullible are, well, gullible.

But:
What I've already pointed out is that this isn't about gullibility, but about obedience through proof-texting. (Which basically means taking a verse or two out of context, and being obedient to the conclusions derived.) Not gullible at all: logic-driven within a set of parameters. And before we bash the logic-driven boundary, most every philosophy used has the habit of being logic-driven within the set of parameters supposed by the core assumptions of the philosophy in question. Heck, even some things in science are studied based upon assumptions. (First: make a hypothesis, set up a study to test the hypothesis, ect.)

The problem is, for someone outside the set of "logic-bound parameters", it looks foolish. Why? Because we're using data that they are not basing their conclusions on. That is all.

A little history lesson can best explain my stance on this most interesting of topics:-

The use of a physical cross as a sign and symbol emerged gradually in Christian practices. While the theology of the cross is taught by Paul and the sign of the cross for baptism and protection is reported fairly early, the use of a physical cross rarely appears before the fourth century. At that time, two events involving Constantine led to the use of a physical cross or cross form by the state, the emerging church, and Christians. In the first event, Constantine reports having a vision of a sign, either while sleeping or seen in the sky, that came to be identified with Christ. With the vision and dream he saw the words, In Hoc Signo Vinces, "In this sign conquer", and assured his victory over Maxentius. He placed the sign at the top of his standard and on the shields of his men and won the battle of Milvian Bridge outside of Rome in 312 . This victory made Constantine the emperor of the West. He surprised everyone by openly supporting Christianity. Cross Crucifix...............

So, to answer the OP's title question - No.

As you can see the cross was and is symbolic of God's ultimate gift to humanity for everlasting life & 2000 years later we as Christians continue to acknowledge that by the sign of the cross.

Christ was always going to be crucified.........it was written in the Old Testament WELL before his birth so your OP Title is a moot point, imho.
OT Prophecies of Christs eventual crucifiction...
eg:
Bible Prophecy: Psalm 22:17-18 says, "I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing."
Fulfillment: John 19:23 says, "When the soldiers crucified Jesus, they took his clothes, dividing them into four shares, one for each of them, with the undergarment remaining. This garment was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom."

Couldn't do that if he was torched now could you?

Or, if you are an atheist and don't like what you are reading then don't worry - none of it is true.........unless it is all true.

Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Pedro4077

 

Ask the Catholics. I have no idea, never prayed in front of a cross before, cant help u out there, sorry.

*looks at your avatar*

Still never prayed in front of a cross, again.. ask the Catholics. I don't know what else to say about that.

Originally posted by davethebear

Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Pedro4077

 

Ask the Catholics. I have no idea, never prayed in front of a cross before, cant help u out there, sorry.

*looks at your avatar*

I believe that's what us English call irony............Well that's my understanding of what Prezbo was saying anyway.......but Americans don't get sarcasm and irony do they? Well not many of them............I thought it was funny anyway....haha

How is that irony? I said I have never prayed in front of a cross before and he points out my avatar which is not me praying in front of a cross.

reply to post by Pedro4077


really? not all christians pray before a cross. It is just a symbol. there is nothing about the christian faith that says pray before a cross.

The cross is just a symbol a reminder of what he did for me and you and the whole world. Even the people who make fun of him

Luckily they didn't drown him, cause people would have to hang an aqaurium above the door.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by davethebear

Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Pedro4077

 

Ask the Catholics. I have no idea, never prayed in front of a cross before, cant help u out there, sorry.

*looks at your avatar*

I believe that's what us English call irony............Well that's my understanding of what Prezbo was saying anyway.......but Americans don't get sarcasm and irony do they? Well not many of them............I thought it was funny anyway....haha

How is that irony? I said I have never prayed in front of a cross before and he points out my avatar which is not me praying in front of a cross.

Please accept my apols...................I thought that you were displaying irony by your statement and the fact that your avatar is actually a cross........

Then the other person pointed out *looks at your avatar*, so I just immediately thought they had missed the joke, when in fact no joke/irony was intended by yourself........

I just thought that he had missed your display of irony, when in fact you were showing no irony at all on purpose..........

So to sum up, at the end of all that I was seeing the irony of it all when in fact none was meant by yourself. So I suppose that's the irony of it all................hope all that makes sense....apols again..........cheers davethebear

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So what is the actual purpose of having that cross in your avatar?

If I may ask?

reply to post by AlreadyGone

Most Christians I know do not pray to or before a cross.

When was the last time you were inside a church? Every church I have ever been to has at least a handful of crosses placed strategically around the building, right where people can see them, and right where people can focus their attention on its image while praying or worshipping.

I don't know who your friends are, but either you don't pay much attention, or they aren't like any of the Christians I know. And I know a lot of them. In fact, just recently, there was a thread posted by a member here who was raving over a desecrated cross. If the cross wasn't an object of idolatry among Christians, why would you be so upset at such a thing? Even the Bible...

I think Christians have drawn a very thin line between 'idol' and 'symbol'. And quite often, they toe that line so much it's smudged and squiggly. They need to stop worshipping physical objects and start focusing on things that are within, and not without. Too much has veneration been aimed toward the physical world. Too little of it has been trained on the soul and the heart. We care more about physical desecration than we do spiritual acts of deviance.

Someone speaks out against "God"? Freedom of speech. Someone touches the cross? OH HELL NO.

It's funny, it really is. Hypocrisy and ignorance know no bounds. It's so hilarious, I could weep and gnash my teeth (hehe).

today every one have and worship iphone
here is kind of answer for Your question

The Cross is Not a Christian Symbol

www.suiwerleer.co.za...

reply to post by Sublimecraft


That's an interesting perspective, considering no one knows where the cross was actually invented. The Roman crucifix was a modified example, for whatever reasons...but originally, the cross represented the overlap between man and god...mortality and divinity, heaven and earth. It was a symbol of "God" being inside of us, not outside of us.

Funny how time changes things, eh? Or is it man that does the changing...

reply to post by dpeacock

The cross is just a symbol a reminder of what he did for me and you and the whole world.

You mean died for our sins?

So it's more an inducer of a constant guilt trip?

What does it mean anyway, "died for our sins"?

It gets thrown around all the time, yet I never had it explained to me how that actually works.

And I did ask dozens of times.

reply to post by Stonedhenge

What does it mean anyway, "died for our sins"?

That's the fly in the pudding. They throw it around like a catchphrase, but no one actually knows what it means. They don't know how it works or anything.

They just pretend to so they can pretend everything will be alright if they just constantly "guilt trip" themselves and debase themselves like good little masochistic sheep...if they act like they're sorry, they can make "God" sorry for them, or something like that. They don't care if the whole thing was designed to give them the short straw. They just want to believe that everything is going to be fine while they sit and read their Bible.

reply to post by Pedro4077

I just about spat out my coffee, and fell out of my chair laughing when I read the thread title. The real funny thing is, this could actually be true, if the death of Jesus was different. I have noticed all these years the Cross Worship. Wonder what will happen to the Cross Worshipers and Man worshipers when and if their God ever comes back to judge them, as they say he will?

Lots of ignorance in this thread.

Does everyone not understand what a symbol is?

They throw it around like a catchphrase, but no one actually knows what it means.

Nobody knows what dying for our sins means? It seems pretty simple, IMHO. Then again, if we're having a hard time grasping what a symbol is, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised if people don't understand.

And, yes. If Jesus died by other means I am sure different symbolism woulds exist to signify His sacrifice. Not anything as silly as a box of matches though.