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Originally posted by Brighter
reply to post by Druscilla
I think the reason why we're not seeing eye-to-eye is due to a gross disparity in our respective research (or absence of) regarding the UFO phenomenon. If anything is going to lend any credence to peoples' abduction accounts, it would be the fact that (1) UFOs indeed exist, and furthermore (2) that they are most likely not 'ours'. In order to feel comfortable with (1), it is necessary that you have actually done some serious research into the UFO phenomenon and its attendant literature. Yet you have explicitly stated that you don't even own a single book on the UFO phenomenon.
In fact, you have stated elsewhere that you are expressly against even reading any of this literature. This is a blatant revelation of an entirely subjective and un-scientific methodology regarding the entire issue. And I have the distinct suspicion that many of the people writing articles such as the one that you posted have a very one-sided, myopic understanding of the issue as well. They are relying on precisely the kinds of one-sided arguments that you are so critical of. It's the age-old case of someone who has been trained as an expert in one field (e.g., psychology), and then an irrational sense of entitlement sets in, wherein they believe that their highly specified field in and of itself has the answers to problems in every other field. They don't even have to touch any other kind of literature, as their field alone and its methodologies supposedly already has the tools to understand it.
Now of course, not everyone who claims to have seen a UFO, and not everyone who claims to have been abducted is necessarily telling the truth or is perceiving a real object or having a real experience. I think this kind of goes without saying, and is basically to state the obvious. But to continually focus on these cases, while intentionally tying on a blind-fold and intentionally avoiding any possible good cases is really the height of intellectual irresponsibility and dishonesty.
So until you do the research and take a good look at the actual data regarding the UFO phenomenon, it is very difficult to take anything you say seriously, as we have no common ground of background research as a launching point from which to have a meaningful conversation. This lack of actual research on your part is the same exact reason underlying your debates with the other more informed members on this forum.
And let me say that I wholeheartedly agree with your position that, in order to truly understand something, one must utilize the tools of diverse disciplines in order to see it from different perspectives. Unfortunately, you've yet to take your own advice, and have expressly stated as much.
Originally posted by Druscilla
I take it then you're still adamant about dismissing the findings and indications of an entire branch of science because they don't fit with your favorite hypothetical?
Further, your continued detraction in following an argument based from personal criticism doesn't even rank with Freshman Debate Club.
You may wish to alter your tactic to a more effective platform addressing the points of debate as opposed to the personalities making those points....
Now, as to Psychology and UFO witnesses.
Here's something old you may enjoy
Anomalistic Psychology -article
Fantasy Proneness and other Psychological correlates of UFO experience
Originally posted by TeaAndStrumpets
Beautifully done, Druscilla. I read it over....
1) the Condon Report, the very source you dismissed only an hour or two ago as a "45 year old document that arbitrarily dismisses the psycho-social factors." (This is just rich! Really. This is where your lack of actual research and reading into the core of the UFO topic, not merely the fringe, really becomes apparent.)
2) a newspaper article from the Guardian which makes a point that every reasonable person around here concedes: that "perception and memory are prone to errors." Yep.
3) a study regarding primarily those who claim to be contactees and abductees... which you admit is a little different than a mere witness to a UFO, do you not?
Again, do you have any real, actual science that refutes what I cited above from the Condon Report, which said: "only a very small proportion of sighters can be categorized as exhibiting psychopathology"?
Read the words carefully. Which of us is avoiding the topic?
You keep pushing towards the fringe topics, hoping no one will notice. Well consider it noticed. If you're as interested in UFOs as your post count seems to indicate, then know that there's a whole wide world of serious writing out there to explore. Of course, it'll require some reading....
Originally posted by Blue Shift
My general problem with the notion that it's part of some kind of covert, subtle educational attempt by the unseen intelligence is that if this intelligence understands us enough to present the phenomenon to us that way, then it should also understand that it doesn't need to do it that way...As it is, if they're giving us lessons, we're not understanding them. But if they're dealing with multiple dimensions or quirks of time and time travel, then it's possible that it's simply beyond our comprehension. In that regard, we might never, ever understand what the UFOs or "aliens" are up to.
Originally posted by therovers
I see your point, in that the UFO's observed by a culture runs in correlation to the intensity of the media coverage, the nature of the coverage and the general beliefs of that society. An example of a changed public perception due to media coverage over a period of time is going from the 'little green man' to the 'little grey man' in terms of how western society views an alien, or scandinavian looking nordics being seen in Europe. The reports by children are the ones that intrest me the most, because that media indoctrination has not taken place on a concious level, although they may of picked up triggers subconciously from news reports/movies etc.
But the reality is the over-whelming majority of UFO experiences can be attributed to a known phenomonon. The ones that humanity as a whole should concentrate on are the ones with tangible evidence, such as unexplained radar reports in line with sightings of lights made by the public or unexplained concentrations of radiation,. multiple witnesses all reporting the same thing etc. Not schizos/attention seekers
www.youtube.com... Heres an intresting case with children
edit on 20-8-2012 by therovers because: (no reason given)