Bill banning parents from trying to 'cure' gay kids moves forward

So will this law apply both ways or be one of those hypocritical laws that only applies in a certain manner. FOr example, would this outlaw things like this:

A lesbian couple in California who say their 11-year-old son Tommy who wants to be a girl named Tammy are giving their child hormone blockers that delay the onset of puberty -- so that he can have more time that he can have more time to decide if he wants to change his gender

Or is the issue only abuse when the lawmakers disagree with it?

Originally posted by NavyDoc
So will this law apply both ways or be one of those hypocritical laws that only applies in a certain manner. FOr example, would this outlaw things like this:

A lesbian couple in California who say their 11-year-old son Tommy who wants to be a girl named Tammy are giving their child hormone blockers that delay the onset of puberty -- so that he can have more time that he can have more time to decide if he wants to change his gender

Or is the issue only abuse when the lawmakers disagree with it?

What exactly do you know about this lesbian couple and their trans child?

And what the hell does it have to do with this subject?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by NavyDoc
So will this law apply both ways or be one of those hypocritical laws that only applies in a certain manner. FOr example, would this outlaw things like this:

A lesbian couple in California who say their 11-year-old son Tommy who wants to be a girl named Tammy are giving their child hormone blockers that delay the onset of puberty -- so that he can have more time that he can have more time to decide if he wants to change his gender

Or is the issue only abuse when the lawmakers disagree with it?

What exactly do you know about this lesbian couple and their trans child?

And what the hell does it have to do with this subject?

My, you are a nasty one. It has everything to do with the subject. If a law is produced that forbids parents from performing sexual identity conversion therapy on a minor child, then it should be consistent and include all such incidents.

What do you know about exogenous hormone treatments in the preadolescent?

Originally posted by NavyDoc

My, you are a nasty one. It has everything to do with the subject.

No it doesn't.

If a law is produced that forbids parents from performing sexual identity conversion therapy on a minor child, then it should be consistent and include all such incidents.

First off trans are not gay - - they are trans.

Second - - - do you really think a parent can just make a decision to send their kid in for hormone blockers?

The fact the parents are lesbian has nothing to do with this.

What do you know about exogenous hormone treatments in the preadolescent?

What do you know?

I am completely familiar with the facts on the "story" you are trying to present. And others - - this is one of many.

There are trans kid camps too - - for children as young as 8. Camps that let them be who they were born to be.

Reply to post by Pedro4077

Roflcopter big time.

Killing a child is far too much, but there is one thing I hate, and that is children who rebel for no good reason, other than they have peers that influence them into a crappy lifestyle and having the "hard-man" act, which is unfortunately the case with a MASSIVE number of youths in the UK today.

I may be 22 and technically "youthful" myself, but I was brought up to respect, and it angers me to see children cursing and screaming at their parents in the middle of the street, only to go and hang out with their pals and do nothing but physically and verbally abuse loads of random people in the streets. Seems the norm these days though, wish something would be done.

However, in the case of homosexuality, and the parent having the choice to send the child to therapy, I believe that no parent has the right to send their child to therapy unless there is a definite, proven mental illness, something which homosexuality is not.

I don't get the homosexuality hatred, and the gay marriage opposition. Gay marriages existed before all three Abrahamic religions, there is evidence of gay and straight marriages occuring well before Christianity and Islam, in ancient times, carvings of ceremonies where men were being wed to men. There is also evidence, that many men married to women, or even further back in time before marriage (something that is essentially non-religious in it's origins, religion didn't create marriage), men and women would both have sexual relations with many others of the same and opposite sex.
It is perfectly natural, thousand of species of animals have shown that homosexuality exists naturally.

This is exactly how you can tell religion is a feature of control, it has made natural things which were pleasurable to EVERYONE, and made it a tool of fear for everyone, and think so childishly that they can "fix" or "punish" those that do what is natural to them. Ironically, those that commit the seven deadly sins, are probably more Godly than any religious person, they are doing what is natural to them, it is not some magical evil that occurred because of a fruit being eaten.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Annee


You love to ask questions but you never answer them yourself. Of course I know about potential harmful side effects of using exoginous hormones to stop adolescence. We have this thing called "medical school" where people learn about such things. Growth failure, vascular complications, fertility issues, and even some types of cancer are at risk. Surely even you can see the inherent unhealthy issues with chemically halting a natural hormone process and the ethical issues of doing such to a minor child.

What I find interesting is the dichotomy in the stance: those foolish people who think they can cure homosexuality say the exact same things as the parents of this little boy: he wants this, he understands this, this is how he is, this will be the better for him. People criticize the parents of one for "pushing their religious agenda on their children" but everyone denies that a lesbian couple from Berkley might have some issues or agendas on their kid too. Yet one group is supported for doing this to a child and the other is castigated...perhaps this issue is more agenda driven than people are willing to admit. A lot of hypocrisy here.

Originally posted by NavyDoc
reply to post by Annee

 

You love to ask questions but you never answer them yourself. Of course I know about potential harmful side effects of using exoginous hormones to stop adolescence.

Really. What harmful side affects? Everything I've read says there have been no indication of side affects from hormone blockers.

You have an already made up mind on this. If you are researching - - - you are researching for everything that could be wrong.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by NavyDoc
reply to post by Annee

 

You love to ask questions but you never answer them yourself. Of course I know about potential harmful side effects of using exoginous hormones to stop adolescence.

Really. What harmful side affects? Everything I've read says there have been no indication of side affects from hormone blockers.

You have an already made up mind on this. If you are researching - - - you are researching for everything that could be wrong.

I already listed the potential side effects. Ditto: you hae already made up your mind about this and the selective outrage you have is very telling.

Originally posted by GoldenRuled
I'm christian. I have no opinion on homosexuality except, God said it's wrong.

Have you asked him why it was only male homosexuality that is 'wrong?'
Or about why there isn't any mention of women having sex with women despite harems being a definite inclusion in the culture and mentioned in the text?

Did he say it was a 'disease' that we must be 'cured' of?

Haven't heard anything from the last 2 millenia indicating He changed his mind.

Well, considering that the injunction against male on male sexual relations was handed down around the time of the bronze-age....and that Jesus arrived approx 2,000 years ago...intended and sent as the 'lamb that takes away the sin of the world,' I think that it is highly possible something HAS changed.

Is there no chance that love is involved in homosexual relationships?
Remember...GOD IS LOVE.

How can love be wrong?
Love covers a multitude of sins.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Ignoring your stupid ad hom and insinuations, you are contradicting yourself and you dont even realize it. You say you can raise your kids any way you want, and nobody can say anything about it. Then you follow by admitting that you CANT raise your kids any way you want, as certain things are illegal (which is, afterall, the point of this thread).

You are so far down your rabbit hole, you can't back out.
Beatings are not part of raising children. Maybe in your sick world it is, but not mine.
Therefor, all logic applied, Yes, yes, I can raise my kids how I see fit, and do not need nor want PEOPLE like you interjecting their distorted view of the world to them.
What ad hominid attacks? What???? Is your fragile ego dented??? Maybe file a Mental abuse charge against me.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
I'm not sure whether to laugh at the contradiction or to feel bad for someone that is that thoroughly lost.

Probably laugh, as it is funny that your perception is twisted and in knots there Captain.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Furthermore, as I said before, there is no point in providing any more sources. You wont accept any of them. But to be clear: psychological abuse is defined under domestic abuse. Domestic abuse is highly illegal. Therefore, psychological abuse would be......that's right....ILLEGAL.

Funny, as you have not submitted any source that states what those laws/statutes are.

You are still going round and round. Either you truly dont get it, or you are being intentionally obtuse. Either way, this is stupid.

Ad hominid? Good lord, I'm debating someone who doesnt even have a basic vocabulary. I am now embarrassed for wasting this much time on you.

And now you are claiming domestic abuse is legal too. And you say I have a twisted view on things

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

And again you are caught as the troll that you are. You replied about that source in your previous comment before you even read it. Glad to see that AFTER you replied, you took the time to look though. Test, failed.

Nicely done.

edit on 28-8-2012 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

SO, because I took your link at face value, and did not catch that it was from Australia, and is for Australian Law, I am the Troll? Now I know that you are just full of crap.
Was it some crafty trap you set???

What's next? A link from China about laws, that you try to pitch as proof for your failed attempt at conveying US law???

Sure sure then, sure sure.

No, because you call a source bunk without even reading it. That makes you a troll, my friend. And not a very good one.

A crafty trap? Naw, it was a fairly simple one.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by NavyDoc
reply to post by Annee

 

You love to ask questions but you never answer them yourself. Of course I know about potential harmful side effects of using exoginous hormones to stop adolescence.

Really. What harmful side affects? Everything I've read says there have been no indication of side affects from hormone blockers.

You have an already made up mind on this. If you are researching - - - you are researching for everything that could be wrong.

I already listed the potential side effects. Ditto: you hae already made up your mind about this and the selective outrage you have is very telling.

You are negative when it comes to gay and related issues. You always look for what is wrong.

I've been following gay and related issues for about 20 years - - with an open mind. What I know is what I've learned over a long period of time. Casually at first - - - then later it became my focus priority.

I tend to pick one subject and put all my focus into it. Prior to focusing exclusively on gay and related issues - - my focus was on East Timor Peacekeeping.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trans is a relatively new study - - - some of the first medical/psychological/science professionals involved are Trans themselves.

Gay and Trans are not the same thing - - and don't necessarily travel in the same circles. The lesbian moms were not familiar with Trans. The fact they are lesbian has nothing to do with this issue - - and was used for sensationalizing.

Gay/Lesbian parents are no more familiar with Trans then any heterosexual parents would be.

The lesbian moms were completely mystified and in the dark about their child being Trans. They did not force their child into anything. They went through the same experience with school/psychologists/specialists - - - any hetero parents would go through.

No parent is going to walk into a doctors office and demand (or get) hormone blockers - - - without extensive evaluation by professionals.

Hormone blockers are used for one purpose and one purpose only. To give the child a few more years to mature - - - so they can decide for themselves on how they want to live their life.

No harm or irreversible effects have been experienced to date.

Of course any individual can have a reaction to medication. My daughter had a severe reaction to children's cough syrup. Found out she was allergic to pectin.

reply to post by NavyDoc


8 True Stories: How Real Families Handle Trans Children: www.advocate.com...

Trans 7-Year-Old Ruffles Georgia Feathers: www.advocate.com...

On Trans Kids, It’s Us Who Are Confused: www.advocate.com...

Dad Wears Dress in Solidarity With Dress-Loving Son: www.advocate.com...

Mother of Transgender Toddler Gets a Lesson in Love: www.advocate.com...

Camp Aranu'tiq is a weeklong, overnight summer camp for transgender and gender-variant youth ages 8 through 15.: www.camparanutiq.org...

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

8 True Stories: How Real Families Handle Trans Children: www.advocate.com...

Trans 7-Year-Old Ruffles Georgia Feathers: www.advocate.com...

On Trans Kids, It’s Us Who Are Confused: www.advocate.com...

Dad Wears Dress in Solidarity With Dress-Loving Son: www.advocate.com...

Mother of Transgender Toddler Gets a Lesson in Love: www.advocate.com...

Camp Aranu'tiq is a weeklong, overnight summer camp for transgender and gender-variant youth ages 8 through 15.: www.camparanutiq.org...

THe Advocate is not exactly an objective scientific journal. None of those articles indicate that one really can be transgender as a toddler and none of them indicate that exoginous hormone replacement is safe for preadolescent children. It is an advocacy magazine that has a major agenda.

A toddler "choosing to be transgender?" That's insane. A toddler has not a sexual identity at all, much being able to "choose" what gender he or she identifies with. Older people are pushing this on kids and it is just as horrible as forcing a kid to go "get the gay cure."

I've never said anything anti-gay. I've even said that the gay deprogramming fad is unscientific and at best not going to change anything and at worse makes people worse off.

THe difference between you and I, is that I have taken an objective look at it and find adults pushing harmful things on kids on both sides of the issue to make the child fit their own biases and preconcieved agendas and notions. Using chemicals to halt puberty is a horrible move. There is time enough for transgender after the child has reaches the age of consent and finished full growth.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

THe Advocate is not exactly an objective scientific journal.

It is a convenient source of info.

Over a 20 year period - - - I think I've probably read other sites - - - I think - - but you know - - can't be sure

A toddler "choosing to be transgender?" That's insane. A toddler has not a sexual identity at all, much being able to "choose" what gender he or she identifies with. Older people are pushing this on kids and it is just as horrible as forcing a kid to go "get the gay cure."

I am not responsible for you choosing to be ignorant of the full scope of information on all the Trans categories.

THe difference between you and I, is that I have taken an objective look at it and find adults pushing harmful things on kids on both sides of the issue to make the child fit their own biases and preconcieved agendas and notions. Using chemicals to halt puberty is a horrible move. There is time enough for transgender after the child has reaches the age of consent and finished full growth.

I don't see you as objective at all.

You obviously are not educated or informed in the area of all the Trans.

Originally posted by NavyDoc
There is time enough for transgender after the child has reaches the age of consent and finished full growth.

This statement alone - - - just proves you don't get it.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by NavyDoc

THe Advocate is not exactly an objective scientific journal.

It is a convenient source of info.

Over a 20 year period - - - I think I've probably read other sites - - - I think - - but you know - - can't be sure

A toddler "choosing to be transgender?" That's insane. A toddler has not a sexual identity at all, much being able to "choose" what gender he or she identifies with. Older people are pushing this on kids and it is just as horrible as forcing a kid to go "get the gay cure."

I am not responsible for you choosing to be ignorant of the full scope of information on all the Trans categories.

THe difference between you and I, is that I have taken an objective look at it and find adults pushing harmful things on kids on both sides of the issue to make the child fit their own biases and preconcieved agendas and notions. Using chemicals to halt puberty is a horrible move. There is time enough for transgender after the child has reaches the age of consent and finished full growth.

I don't see you as objective at all.

You obviously are not educated or informed in the area of all the Trans.

edit on 29-8-2012 by Annee because: DAMN QUOTES!

LOL. I love it. Can't formualte a cohesive, logical point, so you pull the same old dismissive act.

Do you find it right to chemically halt a natural developmental milestone in a child too young to consent to such?

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by NavyDoc
So will this law apply both ways or be one of those hypocritical laws that only applies in a certain manner. FOr example, would this outlaw things like this:

A lesbian couple in California who say their 11-year-old son Tommy who wants to be a girl named Tammy are giving their child hormone blockers that delay the onset of puberty -- so that he can have more time that he can have more time to decide if he wants to change his gender

Or is the issue only abuse when the lawmakers disagree with it?

What exactly do you know about this lesbian couple and their trans child?

And what the hell does it have to do with this subject?

My, you are a nasty one. It has everything to do with the subject. If a law is produced that forbids parents from performing sexual identity conversion therapy on a minor child, then it should be consistent and include all such incidents.

What do you know about exogenous hormone treatments in the preadolescent?

This would be where SCIENCE (you know, that thing those religious crazies hate so much because there is actual evidence of things) would take the lead.

Being gay is not a medical or psychological condition that we don't understand, it is a natural state of sexuality, and therefore does not require "treatment".

Gender identity issues are clearly not the same as being gay. This is why there are recognized psychological evaluations and treatments to go through when dealing with a gender issue.

You are trying to imply that being gay is a psychological ailment or disability of some kind, and that is why you are being called out on it, rightly so.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

LOL. I love it. Can't formualte a cohesive, logical point, so you pull the same old dismissive act.

Do you find it right to chemically halt a natural developmental milestone in a child too young to consent to such?

You are completely clueless on this subject.

Yes - - it is the correct thing to do. To stop masculine development of a girl born in a male body.

You are also clueless thinking the child is unaware.

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by NavyDoc
So will this law apply both ways or be one of those hypocritical laws that only applies in a certain manner. FOr example, would this outlaw things like this:

A lesbian couple in California who say their 11-year-old son Tommy who wants to be a girl named Tammy are giving their child hormone blockers that delay the onset of puberty -- so that he can have more time that he can have more time to decide if he wants to change his gender

Or is the issue only abuse when the lawmakers disagree with it?

What exactly do you know about this lesbian couple and their trans child?

And what the hell does it have to do with this subject?

My, you are a nasty one. It has everything to do with the subject. If a law is produced that forbids parents from performing sexual identity conversion therapy on a minor child, then it should be consistent and include all such incidents.

What do you know about exogenous hormone treatments in the preadolescent?

This would be where SCIENCE (you know, that thing those religious crazies hate so much because there is actual evidence of things) would take the lead.

Being gay is not a medical or psychological condition that we don't understand, it is a natural state of sexuality, and therefore does not require "treatment".

Gender identity issues are clearly not the same as being gay. This is why there are recognized psychological evaluations and treatments to go through when dealing with a gender issue.

You are trying to imply that being gay is a psychological ailment or disability of some kind, and that is why you are being called out on it, rightly so.

Actually I didn't say or imply that at all. In fact, if you read above, I said that this "deprogramming" or "therapy" or whatever they want to call it was bogus, not scientific, and at best ineffectual and at worse harmful. Just read up a few posts.

What I'm addressing is the dichotomy in the law that bans one set of therapies that are argueably harmful to the psyche of a developing child, yet permit other therapies that could be just as harmful--especially if such therapies include hormonal manipulation of a growing preadolescent--you know, using that science stuff. Such a dichotomy seems more driven by ideology than the health of the child.

I'll ask the same thing of you: do you think that hormonal manipulation and chemically induced delay of natural onset of puberty in a child unable to understand or give consent a healthy thing? Some people are so wrapped up in defending anything they consider a slight to the GLBT community that they seem to want health and reason to take a back seat. Just as the fundies force this stupid deprogramming thing on children without consent, the same people on the flip side want to force some pretty life altering and irreversable things on children incapable of understanding the ramifications of such a decision, letting ideology trump science.