The case against a Nuclear Armed Iran.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Jakes51

 

At this point, I am honestly wondering what Iran needs to do in reaching out and how they can expect to get out of things, either way. I'm honestly not kidding. Prior to Libya, I would have believed that a nation we say we have a serious problem with could solve the problem and end the problem.

However, in Libya and now in Syria, if clear options are offered at all, they don't last long when the willingness to cooperate is shown. Then it's just flat out Regime change and how best to go about it.....their deaths have already been decreed and decided within Western Governments.

You know, as recently as the confrontation with the Taliban and before U.S. forces entered Afghanistan, I still believed a nation could get themselves out of being destroyed...if they only did what was being asked.

So much has happened in the last several years though, ( and it's BOTH Presidents for those who can't think past that these days ) I'm just not sure anything Iran does will change the ultimate outcome of what seems to have been decided. The how and precisely when is all a big question ....but end result seems as clearly decided as Iraq, Libya and Syria. I hope I'm wrong on that..because Iran won't just roll over and say 'screw it'. We're in for a REAL fight this time.

Why must other countries do what the US wants? Why must Iran listen to the US? Why doesn't the US have to abide by international law and by the UN? You seem to think that the US is the master of the world. What makes this so? You speak as an arrogant American (I am guessing your nationality). Why is it ok for the US to kill people all over the world on an industrial scale? Why doesn't the US follow its own laws, including the US Constitution?

I'm not defending the Assad or Khadafy regimes by any stretch. But compare their body count of deaths and torture to those of the US; I assure you the US will win hands down as the bloodthirstiest nation of the 21st century. The only other difference being that these other countries do it to their own people, whereas the US goes abroad to kill most of its victims.

I don't mean to offend you wrabbit, I am just sick to death of this matter, your thread is well presented don't get me wrong.

At this point I have only 3 words........ Hiroshima, Nagasaki, hypocrites.

Originally posted by woogleuk
I don't mean to offend you wrabbit, I am just sick to death of this matter, your thread is well presented don't get me wrong.

At this point I have only 3 words........ Hiroshima, Nagasaki, hypocrites.

But that's exactly what Rabbit is changing... All those so-called heroes who talked about how they saved the world and all those poor poor people who were martyrs... THOSE DAYS ARE GONE! Stop living that dream... (don't mean you Woogleuk).

We are atleast 2-3 generations in adulthood who DO NOT want the political relations and ideals of the old school. We don't support the countries they do, but we can't have a say because they wave the backwards democratic flag in our heads "You voted for us, so....."

The last 25 years of politicians have failed us, and their lack of being able to change with the times are a hindering for peace in the entire world. They are holding us back, they are forcing us to passively take place in plundering and destruction of foreign nations we haven't even been to on vacation.

I do not fear the common moderate muslim, jew or christian. I fear the people who rule and attack in their name. Be it with rhetoric or force.

We ARE NOT those are grand fathers were... we are something more, we are something better, and that is what Rabbit is proving.

Again, thank you for enlightening people with painting a picture that should be easier to understand than a bill of voting with two choices to mark with a pen.

Dude, ofcourse Iran has motive to get nukes. Think of it this way, if we didn't have nukes, and an Arab nation across the sea is trying to tell us what to do would we listen? First we went into Afghanistan, then Iraq. What is in the middle of those two countries? Iran. You can't tell me this wasn't planned from the beggining. Now we have two bases surounding Iran to do whatever our government has been planning. I think we should absolutely act pre-emptively. The last thing we need is an outspoken enemy of our allies, armed with nuclear weapons. After we get through with Iran the U.S. will basicly "control" most of the world. Just left with China and Russia. We will the U.S., all our allies, and 3 substantial footholds in the middle-east. It's clear to me that our government plans to rule the world. I'm just glad I'm on this side.

Excellent turn of events going on:

ATS Link... Ayatollah says Iran should avoid war

Any act of war will now be committed by Israel alone and should be looked upon as a great crime against humanity.

Originally posted by Tauvington
Dude, ofcourse Iran has motive to get nukes. Think of it this way, if we didn't have nukes, and an Arab nation across the sea is trying to tell us what to do would we listen? First we went into Afghanistan, then Iraq. What is in the middle of those two countries? Iran. You can't tell me this wasn't planned from the beggining. Now we have two bases surounding Iran to do whatever our government has been planning. I think we should absolutely act pre-emptively. The last thing we need is an outspoken enemy of our allies, armed with nuclear weapons. After we get through with Iran the U.S. will basicly "control" most of the world. Just left with China and Russia. We will the U.S., all our allies, and 3 substantial footholds in the middle-east. It's clear to me that our government plans to rule the world. I'm just glad I'm on this side.

Well even though you might be on the "winning" side, it's your duty to overthrow a government continuing with these crimes. You and your country are not a hero or a savior. Right now the best word I can think of for the US is "The Destroyer of Worlds", and I will happily assist any insurrection and resistance in world domination is the goal of the US.

Originally posted by buster2010
We allow these people to have illegal nukes and do nothing to stop them but we want to go to war against a nation that isn't even trying to get nukes. Is America stupid or not.

edit on 19-8-2012 by buster2010 because: (no reason given)

Well...but you see...it is not 'illegal' for Israel to have nuclear capabilities and weapons because they are not signatory to the NPT.

International law is necessarily based on treaty and so if one refuses to sign a treaty, they are effectively 'outside' the law in regard to the treaty's purpose and contents.

Evidently the leaders in Israel honor the idea of treaties, as they never signed the NPT or even expressed vague future intention to do so. So the best tactic would be....in the astronomically unlikely event that anyone of any significance ever asked MY opinion...for the US to negotiate with Israel along the lines of pulling all support unless Israel reconsiders and gets on board the NPT.

Like I said...just my opinion...and admittedly not worth a hill of beans.

Originally posted by MrInquisitive
Why must other countries do what the US wants? Why must Iran listen to the US? Why doesn't the US have to abide by international law and by the UN? You seem to think that the US is the master of the world. What makes this so? You speak as an arrogant American (I am guessing your nationality). Why is it ok for the US to kill people all over the world on an industrial scale? Why doesn't the US follow its own laws, including the US Constitution?

EXACTLY.

And we cannot even do it in the name of 'promoting democracy' in the world...we do not yet enjoy true democracy in the Republic of the United States and therefore have no legitimate foundation upon which to found such a crusade.

We, as a nation, that is...seem to feel it is justified to go about on a tear, sticking our sharp fingernails in everyone's eye...trying to get the splinter out...and we've got the equivalent of a Giant Sequoia sticking out of BOTH of our eyes!

I wondered for so long how it ever could have turned so sour and misguided right under our noses...yet escaping our detection completely. I do not think that we were purposefully diverted, like we are in the present times, when things went awry. I think we didn't see it coming. But now that it is here, we must rectify it and not even worry so much about casting blame on one another or on the 'bankers' or whomever...all involved were Americans...it is Americans who are responsible for America and the whole world knows this as they have all duly studied the early history of the so-called bastion of global democracy...we can't go about policing the world for alleged and confirmed tyrants if we cannot control our own supposed right to self-govern.

I'm not defending the Assad or Khadafy regimes by any stretch. But compare their body count of deaths and torture to those of the US; I assure you the US will win hands down as the bloodthirstiest nation of the 21st century. The only other difference being that these other countries do it to their own people, whereas the US goes abroad to kill most of its victims.

Again, EXACTLY. And so we use what goes on in other countries as our justification for raiding their coffers....opium, oil, semi-precious gems, gold...the list of imperialist 'most-sought-after' goes on and on.

I keep pointing out, any chance I get, that if indeed the US was so full of altruistic intention, then why did we sit by with the rest of the world and simply shake our heads and cluck over the terrible events in Rwanda in the early 1990's?

"We don't approve of what is going on in Rwanda," was the general theme of the official statements given on behalf of the US..but the other half of that sentiment is (but you have nothing we want so we can not help you) and has remained unspoken even after 20 years.


And I am a red-blooded American, too, btw.
I am proud of Americans...but America...right now....not so much.
But I have faith that we can do better. We have to or else the world will go to hell in a hand-basket and I cannot say that it is up to anyone else but us to make right what we've allowed to become so wrong. And soon.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


What huge work you've done, Wrabbit!
Outstanding.

We are in the same camp on this issue...I do not believe at all that Iran is guilty of what they are accused of. I also have done tons of research but not in this area. But because you've labored so hard, I also now have a new reference to mention or point to that just adds to the evidence in favor of this being chicanery on the part of *whomever* and not a real danger or something over which we need to get whipped into a war frenzy.

This is just full of sound data and I'm glad you have to be so exacting for school. Everyone can benefit!

Thank you for bringing this into the 'nuclear Iran' conversation here at ATS.

What I think on Iran (and similar) regime?