Explosive 9/11 Documentary About To Air On Public Television In United States

reply to post by Flatcoat


The section you quoted seems to be disagreeing with you. You said you don't believe the single column theory, but now you use it as a position.

What do you believe? How was such a complex failure mechanism achieved through explosives and then through structural modelling?

Originally posted by exponent
reply to post by Flatcoat

 

The section you quoted seems to be disagreeing with you. You said you don't believe the single column theory, but now you use it as a position.

What do you believe? How was such a complex failure mechanism achieved through explosives and then through structural modelling?

He has said he doesn't have a belief, except that the OS is wrong.... handy

reply to post by longlostbrother


Sorry, I'm not sure we're even on the same page here. Did the failure at column 79 cause the building to collapse or not? If it hadn't failed would the building still have collapsed? What if someone had intentionally removed column 79 from the building on any other day, would we have seen the same progressive collapse? I'm afraid you're going to have to clarify your point a little. Not long ago you were talking about tons of debris and fires on the roof contributing to the collapse.

Originally posted by Flatcoat
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

Sorry, I'm not sure we're even on the same page here. Did the failure at column 79 cause the building to collapse or not? If it hadn't failed would the building still have collapsed? What if someone had intentionally removed column 79 from the building on any other day, would we have seen the same progressive collapse? I'm afraid you're going to have to clarify your point a little. Not long ago you were talking about tons of debris and fires on the roof contributing to the collapse.

You said:

Well, to me, OSers look a little "nutso" when they claim that the failure of one column in the corner of the 12th floor caused the sudden, complete global collapse of a 47 story skyscraper.......

Which is NOT what they claim, as has been repeatedly pointed out to you.

Here. let's look at it another way, do OSers claim that WTC7 would have collapsed if there'd been no fire?

Here's NIST again:

Eventually, a girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to a critical column, Column 79, that provided support for the long floor spans on the east side of the building (see Diagram 1). The displaced girder and other local fire-induced damage caused Floor 13 to collapse, beginning a cascade of floor failures down to the 5th floor. Many of these floors had already been at least partially weakened by the fires in the vicinity of Column 79. This collapse of floors left Column 79 insufficiently supported in the east-west direction over nine stories.

Note how they don't, AT ALL, claim that the only reason the building collapsed was due to the failure of one column.

You're the only one claiming such a a thing.

OSers believe:

- a girder on Floor 13 [due to fire damage] lost its connection to a critical column, Column 79, that provided support for the long floor spans on the east side of the building

- The displaced girder and other local fire-induced damage caused Floor 13 to collapse, beginning a cascade of floor failures down to the 5th floor. Many of these floors had already been at least partially weakened by the fires in the vicinity of Column 79. This collapse of floors left Column 79 insufficiently supported in the east-west direction over nine stories.

- This caused the collapse of the entire building.

reply to post by longlostbrother

The displaced girder and other local fire-induced damage caused Floor 13 to collapse

That's a little ambiguous don't you think? What is this "other local fire-induced damage" ?

Originally posted by Flatcoat
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

The displaced girder and other local fire-induced damage caused Floor 13 to collapse

That's a little ambiguous don't you think? What is this "other local fire-induced damage" ?

Are you serious?

How about weakened steel due to fire, for example?

I think that unless you have an alternate theory this convo is gonna be pretty fruitless.

reply to post by longlostbrother

I think that unless you have an alternate theory this convo is gonna be pretty fruitless.

I believe that the building was intentionally demolished, ok ? I Don't believe that the entire internal steel structure of a highrise building can completely disassociate, thousands of bolted and welded steel connections in mere seconds, leaving an untouched, freestanding facade to wait a few seconds more, then collapse itself vertically at incredible speeds. For one, every construction I've ever worked on had the cladding attached to the internal structure. I can't say I've ever seen a building with the facade as a completely separate entity to the rest of the structure.

reply to post by longlostbrother


I found one true statement in your reply..

Both were hit by planes.

And then we have WTC 7 phenomenon...

Do you think if you keep ignoring witnesses who reported explosions all over the place, it will make your false beliefs come true?

Good luck

reply to post by longlostbrother

Hell, I'll pretend those don't exist and the truthers still look nutso when they claim the buildings were brought down by hundreds of invisible and inaudible explosions.

Truthers claim there were hundreds of invisible and inaudible explosives? Really? You're the first one i have seen that claims that.

Originally posted by maxella1
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

Hell, I'll pretend those don't exist and the truthers still look nutso when they claim the buildings were brought down by hundreds of invisible and inaudible explosions.

Truthers claim there were hundreds of invisible and inaudible explosives? Really? You're the first one i have seen that claims that.

They do!

They claim explosive demolition which would require hundreds, if not thousands of audible and visible explosins.

And yet, the most they can document are a few puffs of something coming out of a few windows and a few loud booms... hardly the same thing as you see in an explosive demo.

Ergo: Truthers claim that the explosions used in the explosive demo (that looks like a typical demo remember) are silent and invisible, as no one has seen or heard them.

In fact, if you dig around, you'll find truther claiming it was some new military tech used, which didn't create a sound or a flash. No evidence it exists, but still it's been repeatedly claimed. By truthers.

Originally posted by maxella1
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

I found one true statement in your reply..

Both were hit by planes.

And then we have WTC 7 phenomenon...

Do you think if you keep ignoring witnesses who reported explosions all over the place, it will make your false beliefs come true?

Good luck

edit on 21-8-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-8-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)

No witnesses reported hundreds of timed explosions. If you claim they did, show proof. Otherwise, you're just making crap up.

Originally posted by longlostbrother

Originally posted by maxella1
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

I found one true statement in your reply..

Both were hit by planes.

And then we have WTC 7 phenomenon...

Do you think if you keep ignoring witnesses who reported explosions all over the place, it will make your false beliefs come true?

Good luck

edit on 21-8-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-8-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)

No witnesses reported hundreds of timed explosions. If you claim they did, show proof. Otherwise, you're just making crap up.

Hey buddy you know perfectly well that people reported explosions because there's dozens of videos wirh people saying it on camera, including firemen.

I'm not going to even go any deeper into this with you, because its just going to be the same nonsense as all those threads in the 9/11 Conspiracy board.

Originally posted by maxella1

Originally posted by longlostbrother

Originally posted by maxella1
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

I found one true statement in your reply..

Both were hit by planes.

And then we have WTC 7 phenomenon...

Do you think if you keep ignoring witnesses who reported explosions all over the place, it will make your false beliefs come true?

Good luck

edit on 21-8-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-8-2012 by maxella1 because: (no reason given)

No witnesses reported hundreds of timed explosions. If you claim they did, show proof. Otherwise, you're just making crap up.

Hey buddy you know perfectly well that people reported explosions because there's dozens of videos wirh people saying it on camera, including foremen.

I'm not going to even go any deeper into this with you, because its just going to be the same nonsense as all those threads in the 9/11 Conspiracy board.

So you're admitting you're full of crap then? You can't provide any evidence of people reporting hundreds of explosions, can you?

Let's look at a REAL demo again



Show me a SINGLE, just one, example of ANYONE reporting anything like that.

You can't.

They say things like, "there was A loud explosion" or "I heard a few explosions"

Not: I saw dozens of flashes running up the building, accompanied by dozens of explosions, then the building seemed to sinking into the ground.

If you think a building 100+ stories is gonna collapse with out people hearing a few things that sound like explosions, your nuts, but it you think that ANYONE claimed to see anything like is in that video, you're lying.

Sure, go watch the towers and WTC7. Do YOU see dozens of explosions, racing up the building? Do you hear timed explosions? Lots f them, directly before the building fell?

Sure, I know you don't...

reply to post by longlostbrother

Show me a SINGLE, just one, example of ANYONE reporting anything like that.

Okay ...

Here's one

SOMEWHERE AROUND THE MIDDLE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THERE WAS THIS ORANGE AND RED FLASH COMING OUT INITIALLY IT WAS JUST ONE FLASH THEN THIS FLASH JUST KEPT POPPING ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUILDING AND THAT BUILDING HAD STARTED TO EXPLODE THE POPPING SOUND AND WITH EACH POPPING SOUND IT WAS INITIALLY AN ORANGE AND THEN RED FLASH CAME OUT OF THE BUILDING AND THEN IT WOULD JUST GO ALL AROUND THE BUILDING ON BOTH SIDES AS FAR AS COULD SEE THESE POPPING SOUNDS AND THE EXPLOSIONS WERE GETTING BIGGER GOING BOTH UP AND DOWN AND THEN ALL AROUND THE BUILDING

Originally posted by maxella1
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

Show me a SINGLE, just one, example of ANYONE reporting anything like that.

Okay ...

Here's one

SOMEWHERE AROUND THE MIDDLE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THERE WAS THIS ORANGE AND RED FLASH COMING OUT INITIALLY IT WAS JUST ONE FLASH THEN THIS FLASH JUST KEPT POPPING ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUILDING AND THAT BUILDING HAD STARTED TO EXPLODE THE POPPING SOUND AND WITH EACH POPPING SOUND IT WAS INITIALLY AN ORANGE AND THEN RED FLASH CAME OUT OF THE BUILDING AND THEN IT WOULD JUST GO ALL AROUND THE BUILDING ON BOTH SIDES AS FAR AS COULD SEE THESE POPPING SOUNDS AND THE EXPLOSIONS WERE GETTING BIGGER GOING BOTH UP AND DOWN AND THEN ALL AROUND THE BUILDING

Never seen that before, nor have I seen anyone else corroborate that, nor does any of the video footage show that...

I would LOVE to see some footage of that though.

Have you seen any?

It's a bit weird her description, one colored flash, then another, etc., but like I said, would LOVE, genuinely, to see more evidence about this... especially any recordings of the explosions of footage.

I have seen sooooooooooo much 9/11 footage, none of which show this ^^^ but maybe it exists!

reply to post by longlostbrother

I have seen sooooooooooo much 9/11 footage, none of which show this ^^^ but maybe it exists!

The only video anybody needs to see is the buidings collapsing. It is really that simple.

And then read the testemonies of the first responders, and survivors. It becomes very clear that something other than what we were told was happening.

There's a reason why buildings never collapse like that before or since 9/11. WTC 7 is so obvious but some people would believe anything other than the most obvious.

Originally posted by maxella1
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

I have seen sooooooooooo much 9/11 footage, none of which show this ^^^ but maybe it exists!

The only video anybody needs to see is the buidings collapsing. It is really that simple.

And then read the testemonies of the first responders, and survivors. It becomes very clear that something other than what we were told was happening.

There's a reason why buildings never collapse like that before or since 9/11. WTC 7 is so obvious but some people would believe anything other than the most obvious.

IT's not that simple at all.

The twin towers look absolutely nothing like a controlled demo.

The videos do not show hundreds of timed flashes. There are no loud explosions immediately before the collapses and the building do not collapse into the ground, but rather the section above the impacted area collapses down onto the rest of the building, which then pancakes down. That does not look like a demo.

Likewise, WTC 7 also shows no outward signs of being "blown up" or destabilised by explosive carges and there is NO audible explosions in the videos of the collapse.

So again, neither video looks or sounds like a traditional demo.

That is a myth.

No buildings have been built like the towers, and the two that did exist suffered the same damage and collapsed in the same way. So, 100% of building built like the Twin Towers collapsed after being hit by airplanes.

No building like WTC 7 has ever burned for 7 hours, unattended.

reply to post by longlostbrother

Never seen that before, nor have I seen anyone else corroborate that

Just a few others for you...

ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER STEPHEN GREGORY

Lieutenant Evangelista, who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I was. We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down. Q. Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was? A. No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me. He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too.

FIREFIGHTER RICHARD BANACISKI

We were there I don't know, maybe 10, 15 minutes and then I just remember there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions. Everybody just said run and we all turned around and we ran into the parking garage because that's basically where we were. Running forward would be running towards it. Not thinking that this building is coming down. We just thought there was going to be a big explosion, stuff was going to come down.

PARAMEDIC DANIEL RIVERA

THEN THAT'S WHEN KEPT ON WALKING CLOSE TO THE SOUTH TOWER AND THAT'S WHEN THAT BUILDING COLLAPSED. HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT IT WAS COMING DOWN? THAT NOISE IT WAS NOISE .WHAT DID YOU HEAR WHAT DID YOU SEE? IT WAS A FRIGGING NOISE AT FIRST THOUGHT IT WAS DO YOU EVER SEE PROFESSIONAL DEMOLITION WHERE THEY SET THE CHARGES ON CERTAIN FLOORS AND THEN YOU HEAR POP POP POP POP POP THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT BECAUSE THOUGHT IT WAS THAT WHEN HEARD THAT FRIGGING NOISE THAT'S WHEN SAW THE BUILDING COMING DOWN

FIREFIGHTER JOSEPH MEOLA

As we are looking up at the building, what I saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on all four sides. We actually heard the pops. Didn't realize it was the falling -- you know, you heard the pops of the building. You thought it was just blowing out.

reply to post by longlostbrother

The twin towers look absolutely nothing like a controlled demo.

They looked nothing like gravitational collapse... They looked like they were exploding.

the section above the impacted area collapses down onto the rest of the building, which then pancakes down.

Show me the pancakes

Likewise, WTC 7 also shows no outward signs of being "blown up" or destabilised by explosive carges and there is NO audible explosions in the videos of the collapse.

Just think about this for while.

No buildings have been built like the towers, and the two that did exist suffered the same damage and collapsed in the same way. So, 100% of building built like the Twin Towers collapsed after being hit by airplanes.

No building like WTC 7 has ever burned for 7 hours, unattended.

7 hours... WOW !!! That's a very long time for a building built to withstand hurricanes and bombs..... but not fire.

reply to post by maxella1


I'll try and format this in a reasonable way.

ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER STEPHEN GREGORY

Lieutenant Evangelista, who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I was. We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down. Q. Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was? A. No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me. He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too.

Low level flashes are not the same as timed explosions and could be from ANYTHING. I haven't seen any footage of these, and so can't comment more than that...

FIREFIGHTER RICHARD BANACISKI

We were there I don't know, maybe 10, 15 minutes and then I just remember there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions. Everybody just said run and we all turned around and we ran into the parking garage because that's basically where we were. Running forward would be running towards it. Not thinking that this building is coming down. We just thought there was going to be a big explosion, stuff was going to come down.

He doesn't seem to be describing a demo at all.

PARAMEDIC DANIEL RIVERA

THEN THAT'S WHEN KEPT ON WALKING CLOSE TO THE SOUTH TOWER AND THAT'S WHEN THAT BUILDING COLLAPSED. HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT IT WAS COMING DOWN? THAT NOISE IT WAS NOISE .WHAT DID YOU HEAR WHAT DID YOU SEE? IT WAS A FRIGGING NOISE AT FIRST THOUGHT IT WAS DO YOU EVER SEE PROFESSIONAL DEMOLITION WHERE THEY SET THE CHARGES ON CERTAIN FLOORS AND THEN YOU HEAR POP POP POP POP POP THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT BECAUSE THOUGHT IT WAS THAT WHEN HEARD THAT FRIGGING NOISE THAT'S WHEN SAW THE BUILDING COMING DOWN

He seems to be describing the sound of the floors pancaking, which made him look up to see the building collapsing... hard to know... def doesn't seem to be describing explosions going up the building, or dozens of timed explosions...

FIREFIGHTER JOSEPH MEOLA

As we are looking up at the building, what I saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on all four sides. We actually heard the pops. Didn't realize it was the falling -- you know, you heard the pops of the building. You thought it was just blowing out.

Seems the same as the last guy, describing the sound of the pancaking floors, which does sound like popping, and which is caught on video. Not pops pre-demo.

Have you watched that Lankmark implosion?

Would you do me a favour? Would you describe the sequence of events as you see them, in that video...? Please.