Iran, The real issue, An open discussion

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posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:15 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 

Wake up peaple keep the religious ethnic diffrences aside. Take a look at situation, humanity respect for one another understand between good and bad that wat make us human human life is the most valuable thing. We ever had life is not something to play with is gift from god him self united state they are the only country who ever use chemical and biological weapons inocent thausand of peaple including women and children look at wat they did in iraq they brutally kill 1.5 million women and children and they havnt find anything look at wat they did in afganistan and take look of what isreal did in palastine they invaded their land destroy their homes kill millions inocent people and get away wit it to be just where is our humanity in who are they trying to protect and yet they get away with it noboby say something not even the human right organization and now they are trying iran nobody ever win a war against iran don't start something that you don't know how. To end it every country have a right to protect their peaple and this what iran is trying to do united state have a nuclear isreal have nuClear why not iran? North koria ands south did china and the rest please wake peaple and protect killing inocent life what ever god they worship to maintain our humanity




posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by aaron2209
reply to post by Yosemite Sam
 


Aren't the "god" people in charge of Israel as well?



Yes they are (nutjobs would be more accurate though) and I quote Yuval Diskin, former head of ShinBeth


"I have no faith in the prime minister, nor in the defence minister, I really don't have faith in a leadership that makes decisions out of messianic feelings."


www.reuters.com...
edit on 19-8-2012 by ALF88 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:18 AM
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The whole Iran/Israel mess is just more Orwellian fear-mongering. It's just like the "Shoe bomber" or the "Underwear bomber" or the "Times square bomber", a bunch of MSM talking heads doing their part to frighten us into giving up our rights. So what is they go to war with each other, that's their business.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:23 AM
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reply to post by jude11
 


You sound just like every other "guilty white liberal' who is too ashamed of America to hold your hand over your heart during the national anthem. Even Hillary holds her hand over her heart. Or are you American? Maybe you are just another typical America hater from some foreign country.

You can skip the fake peace sign. It's pagan anyway.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by alphazazee
 


Conveniently forgotten what Russia did in Afghanistan before we got there? Conveniently forgotten that we trained Bin Ladin to fight against the soviets. I remember hearing of bombs dropped there by Russia in the shapes of toys for little children to pick up. Or maybe you are too young to know that history lesson?
America haters out in droves lately. what's the deal?

How about Communist Chinese in Korea? Marxist guerillas in Nicaragua?Russian gulags? Wanna go earlier? How about France in Tunisia? Or how about Milosovic in Kosovo? Saddam gassing the kurds? How about Communist Chinese in Tibet? You do know that the Dalai Lama is a refugee?

Get some history and get a clue.
edit on 19-8-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:26 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by jude11
 


You sound just like every other "guilty white liberal' who is too ashamed of America to hold your hand over your heart during the national anthem. Even Hillary holds her hand over her heart. Or are you American? Maybe you are just another typical America hater from some foreign country.

You can skip the fake peace sign. It's pagan anyway.


This one's for you, buddy.




posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by KeliOnyx
The problem I have with our relations with Iran is we are the reason they are so bad. The U.S. would not accept or tolerate any trade embargoes yet we expect other nations to do so. Who is to say what their regime would like without the rest of the world isolating it.


Cop out. We are no more responsible for their own behavior than I am for the behavior of any other person. I am responsible for my own, no one else is, and the US is respoinsible for it's own - no one else is. The first step in maturation is accepting your own triumphs and failures, whether "you" are an individual or a country. Blaming it on someone else won't get you any where, nor will it ever solve YOUR problems.



And the thought of them having nuclear weapons doesn't really frighten me. We know Israel has them, and if you listen to how diplomatic they are, they are no better. Mind you it is a violation of a treaty they signed in good faith. Yet everyone seems to give them a pass for their lies.


I don't have any problem with Iran having nukes, either, but apparently for entirely different reasons. it appears that you are implying Israel has signed some sort of nuke related treaty, which they have violated in your estimation - can you tell us which one that would be you are claiming they've signed "in good faith", so that we can all be on the same page here?



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:35 AM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


whatever and don't call me buddy

Just for the record, this is not the America of my childhood. And I did not vote for the current Marxist in chief and am avidly against everything his administration does. I still love the America of my childhood and pray for her safe return. I hold the Globalists culpable for the bad behavior, but the Globalists are everywhere and have no loyalties.

That guy over there in the WH was too ashamed to wear a flag pin or hold his hand over his heart for the national anthem and goes around bowing and scraping and apologizing all over the world while giving up our positions. That's who liberals put in the WH. I could go into whether he's even American or not, he sure doesn't act like he is. Citizen of the World and all....makes one wonder if he wants to be leader of the whole world.


edit on 19-8-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)
edit on 19-8-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by Yosemite Sam

Dude, your head is buried in the sand. Iran is trying to establish a caliphate. They want to re-create Persia. They are not weak and innocent as you would have us believe. They are extremely dangerous and will continue to be until the theocracy is overthrown by reasonable people.



Iran may or may not have dreams of re-establishing the Persian Empire, but they aren't after re-establishing a Caliphate. The Caliphate is the goal of Sunnis, specifically Wahabbis like al-Qaida and the Muslim Brotherhood. Iran is in opposition to that. It's that whole Sunni-Shia rift thing.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:37 AM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


First, none of the countries you site are democracies.

Second, they believe in Ala, who is not God. So, I fail to see your point.

The best you can do is rag on my supposed status on this site? lol



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:39 AM
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Originally posted by Yosemite Sam
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


Second, they believe in Ala, who is not God. So, I fail to see your point.


I all of a sudden see this discussion is pointless.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:40 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by jude11
 


You sound just like every other "guilty white liberal' who is too ashamed of America to hold your hand over your heart during the national anthem. Even Hillary holds her hand over her heart. Or are you American? Maybe you are just another typical America hater from some foreign country.

You can skip the fake peace sign. It's pagan anyway.


Not Liberal

Not Guilty

Ashamed of America? As many Americans are.

My National Anthem is still valid. Yours has been stolen.

Hillary holds her heart because she wants to shield it from those that would put a bullet through it.

American...No.

America Hater? No. Disappointed in Americans? Yes.

Get a life and realize that the entire World view is not American. No one cares anymore and if you want to put the hate towards those that know the truth, go for it.

I only pity you.

Peace...AND THAT IS REAL....Only pagan in America. Yup, got that stolen from you as well.

Again...Peace



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:43 AM
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Apologies for my rudeness to another poster.

Apologies for my rudeness in a thread from Slayer.

Deleted.

Peace
edit on 19-8-2012 by jude11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:45 AM
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As I am sure you well know, the world of international politics is a long and confusing road. Like you I would love to see the Iranians and Israelis come together and see that we all bleed the same color.

One thought that I had regarding the issue, perhaps it has more to do with the two big fish which is to say the US and China. Again this is just a possibility I've thought of, but I seem to recall the US stating somewhere that they had a 'containment' policy regarding China. Really I don't have a whole lot of knowledge regarding China, I know they treat their people with little respect. As I understand it, during the cold war the USSR entered into an agreement where they would provide China with the knowhow regarding nuclear weaponry of which they were lacking at the time. At one point the Russians met with the Chinese premier to explain the dangers posed from wielding such weaponry and the Chinese premier responded something to the tune of "Meh, we could stand to lose a few million people anyway." Upon hearing this the Russians decided that it might not be such a good idea to put this power into their hands, they began feeding China false information regarding nukes.

I can see where the US might fear the possibility of war with China at some point and as it is China lacks the capability to move their massive army across the ocean, so perhaps the US is seizing the opportunity to surround China before they move forward with their increasing ability to manufacture a large navy. However; China has never been lacking in the field of military strategy having birthed such Generals and Philosophers as Sun Tzu in their long and illustrious history. I myself have always been a big fan of strategy and must admit that if I were playing the role of China on the world stage I might try my hand, but the only way to pull off such a feat at this time would be to bring my enemy closer to me. Really this would be the absolute best strategy the Chinese have right now. By bringing the enemy to them they not only eliminate the Naval disadvantage, but take full advantage granted by well established defensive positions in the home front. Could China be setting a trap? Could the Iranian nuclear facility actually be bait? Come closer to my mouth the seemingly sleeping dragon says.

It appears to me that China has no qualms about waging nuclear war and even if the US missile defense shield works China has tactical nukes out the yin yang, no pun intended.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Yosemite Sam

Dude, your head is buried in the sand. Iran is trying to establish a caliphate. They want to re-create Persia. They are not weak and innocent as you would have us believe. They are extremely dangerous and will continue to be until the theocracy is overthrown by reasonable people.



Iran may or may not have dreams of re-establishing the Persian Empire, but they aren't after re-establishing a Caliphate. The Caliphate is the goal of Sunnis, specifically Wahabbis like al-Qaida and the Muslim Brotherhood. Iran is in opposition to that. It's that whole Sunni-Shia rift thing.



Then I guess it will be a complete shock to you when they take Saudi Arabia.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:53 AM
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reply to post by Symbiot
 


China has a much larger naval projection then you intimate.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:54 AM
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"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Salvor Hardin, from Issac Asimov's Foundation.

Ironic in the context of Hitler's Aryan race theories and antisemitism is that "Iran" means land of the Aryans in Persian according to wikipedia.

I wonder about the psychology of a people who are told their ancestors once had the world's greatest empire and now are considered second rate. It seems logical there would be some animosity toward the established power structure.

Anyway, Iran is definitely significant. 75 million pop (#17,in world, 2nd in ME behind Egypt, Pakistan not include), 876 Bil GDP (2nd in ME behind Turkey). Around 13K GDP per capita is respectable especially considering the population size. It'd be hard to expect them to match Qatar's 100plus GDP/Capita with 40x as many people.

Maybe the stat that best illustrate's it's significance is it's status as OPEC's 2nd largest exporter...

Now combine that economic significance with theocracy, and you have a threat to the Western ideal. Combine that with passages of holy war and infidel intolerance in the theocracy's holy book, and the threat is perceived as doubly serious. Over the top rhetoric and nuclear ambition, we have a nightmare.

Two speculations:

1.) Iran may be trying to bait the Israeli/US into a preemptive strike in order to frame the Western establishment as evil so to unite the Islamic world in response. Maybe it's not nuclear war they are trying to start, but a movement with a common enemy, which leads me to....

2.) An understated motive of US involvement in the Middle East may be preventing the establishment of a 21st century caliphate. An Islamic super nation with territory from Indonesia to Northern African, a population over a billion and an economy to rival the Eurozone, America, and China.

Oh, and an army that could be quite capable against any. With the possible motive of taking over the entire globe based on jihadist principle? Maybe, maybe not...could just as well be an economic/political unit aiming to increase it's peoples quality of life and participate in the global community.




SPEAKING at a policy conference on Monday, 7 February, 2011 Benjamin Netanyahu spoke of the ambitions of radical Muslims of both Sunni and Shia persuasion to build a new Islamic kingdom of global dimensions. Addressing the gathering in Jerusalem organised by the European Friends of Israel, Israel's Prime Minister spoke of:
Article


Israel/West foresee the inevitable rise of a 21st century caliphate On CNN

And here's a link to a book that's for saleEssays on 21st century Western Imperialsim and the rise of the Caliphate on an Islamic website:

Summary:




The articles have been grouped together into four sections. Where appropriate, I have modified some of the articles to ensure consistency and readability. Part 1 is a rebuttal of some of the common accusations levied by western writers against Islam. Part 2 exposes the collaboration between the West and the Muslim agent rulers regarding the colonisation of the Muslim lands. Part 3 sheds light on the inability of Western Capitalism to solve its problems at home. Finally, Part 4 expounds on the failure of the West to prevent Muslims from yearning to live under the Caliphate.




If you ask me, if allowed the freedom, an Islamic super state would rise in the coming decades or sooner. The Muslim Brotherhood is the majority party in Egypt now, Saudi Arabia and Iran are already theocracies.


The question is, should the west prevent this from happening? If so, the wars of the past 12 years could be justified even if started on shoddy premise including disinformation about Iraqi weapons and even a staged attack on WTC.

edit on 19-8-2012 by PatrickGarrow17 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by Yosemite Sam
reply to post by Symbiot
 


China has a much larger naval projection then you intimate.


Chinas navy is nothing to scoff at, but I don't think it is nearly ready to go toe to toe with the US navy. If China in this day attempted to move their army across the ocean they'd lose more than half of it. Even if they could move their army over seas I still think a bait strategy would be in their best interests.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:02 AM
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reply to post by jude11
 


You are sitting here on this board yelling about how Iran has a right to get nukes and bashing America for Hiroshima and you have the gall to make those statements to me. You are sitting here on this board and then tell me to get a life?
My life seems right now to be opposing hateful people who agree with that schmuck in the WH.

You have NO place to talk to me.

Sure Iran has a "right" to have nukes but is it going to be good for the world? If you are going to justify Iran having nuke capabilities then don't even think of justifying shutting down all the nuclear plants in the US because Fukushima has proven that it's too dangerous.

I've seen enough of that self righteous baloney around here.
edit on 19-8-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:09 AM
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reply to post by jude11
 





Hey BUDDY! How's New Atlantis working out for ya Buddy? I was under the impression that the old America was paradise for ya...BUDDY. Oh yeah...PEACE...BUDDY


What are you, twelve? It's not your fault, Corruption Exposed ruined the thread. It's not easy being a lap dog is it?



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