Iran, The real issue, An open discussion

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posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 





I remember my Kindergarten Teacher telling me not or run with scissors


Interesting, I always see the ramification of putting ones-self in dangerous positions, interesting how children never want to be told anything even when it is in their best interest,

World leaders must have had poor teachers.

edit on 083131p://bSaturday2012 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1

As for the Internet.......


n preparation for the March 2012 elections, the Iran government is instituting strict rules on cybercafes and preparing to launch a national internet.[8] It also requires all Iranians to register their web sites with the Ministry of art and culture.[9]


Internet censorship in Iran

I find it hard to believe, that those claiming they are from Iran and are ATS members have the same freedoms to say what they want here, especially since you have to register Web Sites, with the Ministry of Art and Culture. ATS is full of Western Ideals, typical of the very websites, Iran would not want the average person on, or subscribing to.

Its a shame we cant have more dialog with true Iranians, to see what they think is best for all sides involved.


I can solve part of that mystery. I was among a few thousand people around the world who ran proxy nodes 24/7 to bypass Iranian internet restrictions during the unrest after the elections. They have a voice, and a means to get it outside the country through those proxies.

They can also connect to ATS, or any other international website, the same way, bypassing the Iranian internal network. I've no doubt the Iranian government uses that to their own advantage upon occasion as well, but you take the bad with the good in order to make sure the good has a way clear.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777


World leaders must have had poor teachers.



They have NO rules they live by. That's the Problem.


Russia can sit back, and blackmail Iran, for Money, and are willing to call for tougher sanctions, if the lawsuit isnt dropped?

How in the Hell can the World, have Peace, when greedy Politicians, are in control?





posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:23 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Well on the other side Slayer I often get called Muslim Apologist among other colorful terms that have come out lately. If only it bothered me.

I see and definitely agree with what you are saying. Even I am guilty of coming our strongly against the US or Israel without placing enough blame on those I defend. I think it stems from the utter lack of defense of the Muslim word in general in our media however.

Can we agree that the portrayal of the Muslim world in the last decade has been less than fair? I think so.

I also think the propaganda against

I don't think military action on either side would be warranted and I'm the first to say a diplomatic solution can and should be sought for all of their issues. I just don't know if I believe one side or another actually wants peace.

I don't think one side or another trusts each other enough, or ever could, to lay down arms and agree to anything concrete.

We will see. Lets us all hope it's just a big stick waiving contest to see whose is bigger.

~Tenth



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by all2human
 


There are absolutely people there who want change - the problem is that diversity exists in their culture... They have their own extremists on both sides. I feel that they also have a government that inhibits the natural course of interaction between the two factions. Whether the majority are driven to either side of the issue is not the issue - only that the process be allowed to happen organically.

All countries have growing pains as they evolve ( or devolve ) and internal disputes are part of that process. This process still qualifies as self-determination.

~Heff



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


violence begets violence,its plagued the ME for thousands of years,yet it still gets repeated..insanity
it hasn't and won't change a thing in the ME if history tells us anything
edit on 18-8-2012 by all2human because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Soshh
 


I've never seen any PEACE talks as a problem!

I've always had issues with the one way regurgitation of BS from EITHER side!

It's a case of carrot and stick, it's just that the carrot side of things is kept quiet and the stick is very visible. The Israelis don't like it, the Saudis are petrified by it and the Chinese and Russians would prefer US attention to be anywhere else. All would seek to derail any talk of peace and Iran and the US both need to big up their bargaining positions and so all we tend to see is both sides flexing at each other.

There are also domestic issues. There's the problem of selling any peace agreement to large sections of each country's respective publics who would believe that they are striking a deal with a country that represents pure evil. Also each party would seek to create the impression that it forced the other into capitulation, or rather that they would try very hard to avoid the impression that it was it that capitulated to the other. So it's quite a sensitive matter to say the least..



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by PrinceDreamer
 



I'm sorry. I was a bit preoccupied {which isn't your fault]. I thank you for your reply. Whether I agree with it or not {should be irrelevant} it should be acknowledged!


Again, Thank YOU!


edit on 18-8-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu


They can also connect to ATS, or any other international website, the same way, bypassing the Iranian internal network. I've no doubt the Iranian government uses that to their own advantage upon occasion as well, but you take the bad with the good in order to make sure the good has a way clear.




Seems I always get the "other" type of Iranian, when it comes to talking about Iran's regime. The ones that don't know that even the opposition groups,are hand picked by the Supreme Leader. The one that has nothing bad to say about Irans current leadership. I find it highly dubious, when one cant find anything bad to say about their Government, or its policy's, when I have a boatload to say, about my own Government, and they also have a boatload to say about "my" Government !





posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by Soshh
 


I wonder bout some's understanding of history?

The US supported Egypt {Financially} for decades. Peace prevailed. Then the US was accused of only supporting dictators {Egypt was an example given at the time}

Then the US cut funding to the Egyptian "dictator" now, we support terrorists.

So meh....



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1
Heres a bit of news, that I find puzzling. Russia has been a staunch supporter of Iran, especially when it comes to supplying them, with Arms.

Why would they not give these to Iran, if they have been so pro-Iranian ?
What does Russia know?


A long-simmering but little-publicised dispute is heating up between Iran and Russia over Moscow's refusal to supply Tehran with sophisticated missiles that would complicate any Israeli or US attempt to attack Iran's nuclear facilities.




Iran resents that Russia, a nominal ally, pulled the plug two years ago on an US$800 million (Dh2.93 billion) deal to deliver five S-300 air defence systems, which can detect and destroy missiles and low-flying aircraft.



The row escalated last week when a Russian official warned that Moscow would take a tougher stand against Iran's nuclear programme unless Tehran withdraws the lawsuit.


Iran and Russia at odds over missile deal


Blackmail?



Now that I think about it.......

I think Russia would sell their mother, for money. Russia knows Iran is not only capable of Nuclear weapons, but has been supplying them with the how to........

Would love to see it blow back at them, when they try to blackmail, and Iran then says they have the bomb, all because of Russia. They would lose all their power at the UN, thats for sure.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by all2human
reply to post by Hefficide
 


Perhaps if they dropped ballots not bombs we would see meaningful change within Iran
even the region..
edit on 18-8-2012 by all2human because: (no reason given)


"They" is too vague a thing to respond to.

Dropping ballots into a situation where no authority exists to recognize our count them seems unproductive.

Other than threats from Israel I can find no references to current bombings in Iran - aside from internal actors.

~Heff



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 

see edit above..
they : Israel/USA
drop ballots instead of bombs.used it metaphorically
but for arguments sake i think Iran should be left alone,as should Syria
we have already determined terrorism exists in every state,but i don't see foreign boots in America or Israel
edit on 18-8-2012 by all2human because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 





How in the Hell can the World, have Peace, when greedy Politicians, are in control?


There will never be peace, until that day,

It is an age old question, and observation,
Put not your trust in princes,



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1
Heres a bit of news, that I find puzzling. Russia has been a staunch supporter of Iran, especially when it comes to supplying them, with Arms.


The row escalated last week when a Russian official warned that Moscow would take a tougher stand against Iran's nuclear programme unless Tehran withdraws the lawsuit.


Blackmail?


It's games within games... The PMU/S-300 systems are impressive and Russia has freely sold them to Syria openly. Syria is a military ally and active trading partner with Iran. Of course they have little bans against such things by the world and Assad always follows the rules..so I'm sure nothing ever got sent back to Iran. lol..


Not that they would have to have.... Iran bought S-300 systems from other sources already. China is rumors on rumors like everything...but certainly not without some basis.


Press TV - In its quest for an advanced air defense system, Iran has reportedly shifted its hopes from Russia to China which owns a replica of the controversial Russian S-300.

As Iran's quest for the advanced Russian-made S-300 air defense system is believed to have hit rock bottom, a report by RIA Novosti said Tehran is eying a Chinese-made HQ-9 surface-to-air missile under the name FD-2000 -- recently put on the export market.
Source


The Fars news agency said Wednesday that Iran has obtained two missiles from Belarus and two others from another unspecified source.

Russia signed a contract in 2007 to sell the missiles to Iran but said in June that new UN Security Council sanctions against Tehran prevent delivery. The sale would have substantially boosted the country's defense capacities, raising Israeli fears it would tip the military balance in the Middle East.
Source

Belarus denied it the next day..but then, what were they to do? Brag on it? lol... Even then it would have been bad.

and rumors are back and forth on whether they've successfully built their own or not? I've seen plenty saying they did and they claim to have. Iran DOES have a very robust domestic arms industry, so it's possible I suppose...If that's the case, who knows how many they have and that system isn't a joke.

Either way though, here is the S-300 or their version...whichever it may be, on Parade in Tehran, Iran for their Army Day Parade in 2010


You can see the S-300 or equivalent system go by in close review at about 2:00

I'm just happy I can find some constructive use for the mountain of material I collected on this months ago.
Hope it helps here!



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by rick004
 


According to Muslim doctrine we are infidels and should be killed so what are our options ? Bow down and all become Muslim ? Wait until they have infiltrated all of western society and be killed off ? Wipe out all Muslim countries ? I would really like to know ?

Wow. Well, the vast majority of Muslims (I have learned over the last 10 years) don't believe in killing, OR in recruiting, and have no interest in "infiltrating" and "killing" all of western society.

No, not "wipe out all Muslim countries"... if you'd "really like to know," please do some "really" research and learn where your impressions are faulty.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by sonnny1
 





How in the Hell can the World, have Peace, when greedy Politicians, are in control?


There will never be peace, until that day,

It is an age old question, and observation,
Put not your trust in princes,






I still think War can be avoided, if the People of Iran, and Israel woke up.

Enough is Enough.


I can dream, cant I?




posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Soshh
 


I wonder bout some's understanding of history?

The US supported Egypt {Financially} for decades. Peace prevailed. Then the US was accused of only supporting dictators {Egypt was an example given at the time}

Then the US cut funding to the Egyptian "dictator" now, we support terrorists.

So meh....

Apparently we're only allowed to ally with good guys, which just so happens to be anyone we're not allied with at any one time. The Russians and Chinese are allowed to deal with utter bastards.. it's not fair!



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Lots of Info Wrabbit.

Again, you never cease to amaze me.



Will look into this, as I think, all these back room deals, are the real reason, the War drums are beating.

EVERY Country, that is sitting on that UN Council, has a part to play. that is the one thing, Americas and Israels detractors, will never admit.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by sonnny1
 





How in the Hell can the World, have Peace, when greedy Politicians, are in control?


There will never be peace, until that day,

It is an age old question, and observation,
Put not your trust in princes,






I still think War can be avoided, if the People of Iran, and Israel woke up.

Enough is Enough.


I can dream, cant I?



Everything will be taken care of eventually.





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