Iran, The real issue, An open discussion

I'll admit, I did not read this entire thread. However, I believe to attempt to understand the Persian mind through Western eyes is quite a challenge.

I think Iran wants war. I don't think Israel does. I think Israel wants to be left alone.

I think the Arabs fear the Persians. I think the Arabs quietly support an Israeli strike on Iran. I have no proof, just my observation.

I think Israel will strike Iranian nuclear sites, and possibly some other strategic targets.

I also think Egypt stands to take an Israeli hit too if they don't behave.

I don't think the enemies of Israel can defeat her.

I think I hear similarities in the comments in this thread to Neville Chamberlain wishing to bargain with HItler.

I see the region similar to Vietnam/Germany/Korea, the same players, a different theater for the war, different proxies. I also see Iran flanked by Western forces.

I do not think that full scale war has been waged by the U.S. or any other nation or seen on the planet since WW2.

your mileage may vary.

Originally posted by sonnny1
I cant state it enough, If the leadership doesn't have the balls to do something, the people in their respective countries should!

Besides protests of various severity, I'm not sure what else the people can really do?

reply to post by majesticgent


Rise up, don't participate in the system. If no one works, no one pays taxes, does nothing - then the government is powerless. Or if enough people participate, actively push their leaders out.

Originally posted by smokenmirrors
I think Israel will strike Iranian nuclear sites, and possibly some other strategic targets.

edit on 19-8-2012 by smokenmirrors because: (no reason given)

Israel does not have the conventional strategic assets to successfully attack and cripple Iran's nuclear sites. Their air force is mostly designed for regional defense, and surgical strikes on targets within relative close range.

Sure they could try by unconventional (nuclear) means, but I'm sure their surrounding neighbors would not like the fallout that ensues. Also I'm sure Israel's citizens would not like the chemical / biological attacks that follow.

It's a catch 22 situation for both nations. Israel is not going to attack by themselves. Mark my words. Iran will not attack Israel unless it is provoked because that would bring on the wrath of Israel and all of her allies.

reply to post by MidnightTide


Sounds good in theory, but I think the only thing that would accomplish is hurting the average citizen.

Can't really speak for other countries, but in the US the infrastructure would collapse further, certain civil organizations would collapse to name a few, the CDC, FDA, etc. Although depending on one's viewpoint that could be a good or bad thing.

The FED will just print more and more money to fund the war effort plunging the country into a depression.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by mideast

 

How about I just ask our guys at Pearl Harbor if they liked being bombed?

Well Pearl Harbour was a long time ago, very few left.

So you could ask the men from the Liberty , that was more recent.

Oh I forgot, that was a Israeli ambush, and we can't speak the truth regarding them.

Here's a top notch DOC from the BBC with several accounts from the few Survivors.

That is if you wish to take your head out of the sand, and learn some truths.

Sorry but I am more worried about ISRAEL than Iran. It seems to me they are the ones beating the war drums and trying to get the tired old US war horse to do their bidding 24-7. It's Israel that has unprecedented lobbying muscle in the US and dual citizens in the pentagon. It's Israel that pours money into the pockets of hucksters like John Hagee so he can get the pathetic "Christian Zionist" fundamentalists to dance to their tune. It's Israel that is knee-deep in child-trafficking and porn and narcotics manufacture. It's Israel that makes the US jump every time they say "boo." And what does the US get in return? Nothing but the enimnity of the Arab world, which contrary to popular opinion would leave us alone if we left them alone.

I say we cut these clowns loose and if Iran and Israel want to go at it let them. It shouldn't be the concern of the US.

Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Whoa...I draw the line at calling Red Dawn a goofy movie! C'mon now!

hehehehehehe

Originally posted by beezzer
Well, if we can't even agree on ATS then I don't see much hope for the survival of Iran, or the futures of America or Israel.

There is no middle ground. Those who support Iran will do so, even after they blow up Israel. Because Israel is a bad guy to many here. And then, of course, they'll blow up Iran.

America? America will just be hated as it's always been hated. If we interfere, it'll be wrong. If we stay out, then it'll be wrong.

Sorry crying bunny, but you are wrong.

Things will not be as usual, as in You watching war on CNN

It is time you and people like you pay for sins of your government, WAR IS COMING TO YOU


**BlowBack** is the word of the century, US policy is so full of blowback.
Don't cry how Stock Market tumbled, how your entire salary goes for gas money, how price of food has quadrupled, how random terrorism on soft targets went up 3000%

reply to post by SLAYER69


Iran keeps threatening Isreal, I say put up or shut up! I think it would be a quick end to Iran and hopefully a end to that government. I feel bad for the people of Iran being controlled by ancient ignorant way of thinking government. OK, they got nuclear and it is only about 50 years behind. Irans military is about where Iraq was, which means very beatable. Probably Soviet military equipment crap, it will end up being another military training mission.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Another solid thread from you, Slayer... Anyone with over 13k+ flags must be doing something right...

I gotta say that I completely agree with your post, I would love to see Isreal and Iran discuss this situation like humans (and to be honest, Id want to sit USA and Syria down at that table too- lets just work sh*t out!!) I just dont believe its a realistic to think it would ever happen, and thats what scares me... With all the conflicts we have over there I dont consider Iran or Syria to be the wild card, but I believe Isreal is a big danger and I feel they're totally unpredictable, and that scares me because I dont want USA dragged into anything they arent starting...

Anyways, nice thread

Stanton & Friedman for you (S&F )

Unfortunately things are getting ugly so far.
Here is link with some info : Iran: U.S. Concerns and Policy Responses

www.fas.org...

reply to post by Xena12

There's got to be just a bit more you can add to your post than a link that will take me 2 hours to read,

This is a False Peace Facade .. more like an illusion that the elite wants the mass to think
its not even funny anymore .. talking about peace
when the US and Israel continu the war crimes in Syria
arming with other allies (Turkey,France,UK) the rebel FSA
they are just foreign merc .. killer with no limits
thats why they did the massacre in Houla .. certainly not Assad who killed all those kids

talking peace again when Iran is about to get bombed the crap out
when people are talking about such peace during the massacre and inevitable Iran strikes
it has become a wicked full hypocrisis peace

I will believe about peace when US and Israel will STFU about Iran
we all know who did 9/11 and why a controlled demolition was necessary
when Israel talk about peace they have a big knife behing their back
in that case they have very powerfull nuke ready to be unleashed in Iran

if you want real discussion.. then so be it
but at least be truthfull about whats going on and whats going to happen
Peace mean Wars and Conquers for the NWO
its their kind of peace not the real Peace with a big P

Nice try slayer .. but you can do better
i know you know that we know .. dont think we dont know
hope its clear now but i forgive you
in the world of today the web of lies is so huge .. its a real labyrinth to find the truth
a friendly advice .. trust no one .. especially not the people that speak about peace
when they are bombarding innocent

Originally posted by petertheskinny

Originally posted by beezzer
Well, if we can't even agree on ATS then I don't see much hope for the survival of Iran, or the futures of America or Israel.

There is no middle ground. Those who support Iran will do so, even after they blow up Israel. Because Israel is a bad guy to many here. And then, of course, they'll blow up Iran.

America? America will just be hated as it's always been hated. If we interfere, it'll be wrong. If we stay out, then it'll be wrong.

Sorry crying bunny, but you are wrong.

Things will not be as usual, as in You watching war on CNN

It is time you and people like you pay for sins of your government, WAR IS COMING TO YOU


**BlowBack** is the word of the century, US policy is so full of blowback.
Don't cry how Stock Market tumbled, how your entire salary goes for gas money, how price of food has quadrupled, how random terrorism on soft targets went up 3000%

I may be mistaken, but it appears you enjoy the thought of it....

but make no mistake, once it happens, the entire world will experience it, so enjoy the thought, because once it happens we are all in for a world of hurt.

Originally posted by Ben81

I will believe about peace when US and Israel will STFU about Iran

Well, might make things a bit easier if Iran would stop saying Israel should be whipped off the face of the earth. Just saying it takes two to play the game.

Originally posted by smokenmirrors
I'll admit, I did not read this entire thread. However, I believe to attempt to understand the Persian mind through Western eyes is quite a challenge.

I think Iran wants war. I don't think Israel does. I think Israel wants to be left alone.

I think the Arabs fear the Persians. I think the Arabs quietly support an Israeli strike on Iran. I have no proof, just my observation.

I think Israel will strike Iranian nuclear sites, and possibly some other strategic targets.

I also think Egypt stands to take an Israeli hit too if they don't behave.

I don't think the enemies of Israel can defeat her.

I think I hear similarities in the comments in this thread to Neville Chamberlain wishing to bargain with HItler.

I see the region similar to Vietnam/Germany/Korea, the same players, a different theater for the war, different proxies. I also see Iran flanked by Western forces.

I do not think that full scale war has been waged by the U.S. or any other nation or seen on the planet since WW2.

your mileage may vary.

edit on 19-8-2012 by smokenmirrors because: (no reason given)

First of all, I guess you should stop calling them Persians. They're not Middle Age conquerors (No Jokes about that please). Call them Iranians.

Iran and Israeli governments both want war. Iran has said it through provocative speeches, while Israel has been complaining to the US and western worlds about how threatening Iran is.

The Arabs don't fear the Iranians. They'd rather support Iran than Israel.

Your saying Israel wants to be left alone, but will attack Egypt if they don't like how they behave? Is that how someone who doesn't want war does?

Iran is not flanked by Western forces. If the west was too attack, China, Pakistan, Russia, and the Gulf would respond.

reply to post by MidnightTide


In that case why don't we disarm the whole lot,all of the ME can whack each other with sticks..
as it is Israel is sitting on nukes and everybody knows it..

reply to post by SLAYER69


I hear you SLAYER, I've been called the same thing. It is what it is and everyone has a opinion in this world. Take it for what it is, crap IMO.

-SAP-

reply to post by maxzen2004

Iran keeps threatening Israel because it's Old Religious Guard Leadership HAS TOO! It has too as a way to remain in power as Iranians...although this number is falling dramatically as I post...have been ingrained with the Israel/U.S. BAD...IRAN GOOD...concept for decades and it didn't help that we allowed a Government...ie...the SHAH...to maintain a Dictatorship all in the Planning for the Containment of the Soviet Unions Expansion.

We know now as 100% FACT due to the release of these Soviet Plans during the Yeltsin Years of Russian Government that the Soviets were intent on first Invading Afghanistan...then on to Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Iran...etc...as they wanted the OIL as well as a Warm Weather Naval Port and Construction Site for Soviet War Ships as they were far behind the U.S. Navy. Thus we made a Mistake and allowed a Vicious Dictator that was the SHAH to rule Iran.

That is far in the past now with an Computer Savvy, Smart Phone Internet Filter Piercing Iranian Youth...Iran has a population where over 70% of all their people are UNDER THE AGE OF 30 YEARS OLD! Screaming about Israel is not working anymore and neither is portraying the U.S. as THE GREAT SATAN. The VAST MAJORITY of Iranians want Good Relations with the United States as well as a True Democratic Republic Government in Iran.

The Iranian Leadership did more harm to itself when they Violently Cracked Down on Pro-Democracy Protesters than any action the West could have done short of Invasion. Iranian Leadership has 11 to 12 Months of Life left to it's rule and they will try to keep in power by any means...this means they will try to start a fight and use this as a Patriotic Rally Cry to get their Citizens on their side. This is why it is important to continue Secret U.S. Military to Iranian Military Talks and have the Iranian Military Leadership agree to STAND DOWN or IGNORE an order by their Old Guard to attempt to Close the Strait of Hormuz or any other action that would FORCE the U.S. Military to respond.

Iran's Leadership has NO PROBLEM sacrificing Thousands of their own Sailors or Troops in the interest of preserving their Power. This must be avoided as if they tried to close the Strait and Best Case Scenario would be that the Iranian Naval Leadership Ignores the order. If it does not...the U.S. Fifth Fleet would sink every Iranian Ship above and below the Sea. Thousands of Young Conscripted KIDS would DIE...and this would not have a positive effect on how the soon to be in Power...Iranian Pro-Democracy Movement would view the United States.
Split Infinity

The US gives a lot of money to countries all around the region annually. Here's a map

www.marketplace.org...

Most of the aid money provides nations with military support such as arms, education and training -- a strategic effort to discourage arms races among countries in the region and promote stability. Economic aid, meanwhile, has been used to further development efforts. With nearly half of the region's population under age 24, inadequate education and employment opportunities for this large youth population contribute to internal instability.