Iran, The real issue, An open discussion

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Nowhere in the gospels does he call himself a socialist or a social engineer

What do you think he meant when he said, "Sell all you own and give the money to the poor?"

What about him spending time with lepers, prostitutes, peasants.....and never ever ever saying they were "undeserving" or "lesser than"? What about those issues?

I think, from reading your posts, that you are one of the elite, privileged few, and rather frightened....

that does not in any way excuse being "blind" to the plight of billions of people who don't have enough to expect to survive another day.
Wow.

You're kidding right? If I was elite and "moneyed", would I really be spending time here on this board arguing with goofball seculars who view Jesus as a myth but play around with describing him as a socialist anyway?: I've heard that silly thing so many times just in this forum and it couldn't be further from the truth. Jesus never advocated public free health as one poster suggested. That is what instituted socialism is. We already have some institutionalized socialist programs, and Obamacare is just the newest one.
Jesus's statements and teachings are clearly misunderstood by you and others, possibly deliberately misconstrued or just out of ignorance.
Thre is a difference between community and communism, between charitable giving and forced redistribution. But what would you know of that?

When did I use the term "undeserving"? You are just making that up because I did not post that. I believe the law of karma determines who is deserving of what by people's own actions. But that is advanced philosophy. I am not certain if you are ready for it.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

You are calling me anti sharing why? Because I don't ascribe socialism to the Master Jesus?

He was the paradigm, the epitome, the apex, of socialist doctrine!

I'm only going by the interactions I've had with you before, where I noted a lot of "hostility" toward anyone (I believe at that point it was Mexican immigrants) who threatened to diminish your own fortune.

Do you not care one lick about what happened to the Native Americans? About the starving children right here (let alone those in 2nd and 3rd world countries)? I just don't understand how you are so quick to lash out at those who want everyone to have enough....and who want those with excess to contribute to the well-being of the community at large.

I don't understand it.
But, never mind.....
those who have excess will kick and fuss if they are asked to contribute...but, if they decide to do it on their own, they are generous and benevolent, I guess.

How will you explain that to a suffering orphan whose parents just died of drug overdoses and now has to go into foster care? Or a veteran who is disabled, traumatized, and dependent on the generosity and compassion of others more fortunate (and less damaged than he or she), but doesn't get adequate care because they are not wealthy?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Thre is a difference between community and communism, between charitable giving and forced redistribution. But what would you know of that?

Uh,..... what I learned as a child about those who are less fortunate? Or, at university? Or, in graduate school? Or, from my upper-middle-class family??

Why would you resort to portraying me as an ignoramus?

"What would I know of that?" Really?

Yikes. Never mind, Horus. I knew many months ago that you go ballistic at the thought of being held culpable for people not having enough to survive.

reply to post by wildtimes

I'm only going by the interactions I've had with you before, where I noted a lot of "hostility" toward anyone (I believe at that point it was Mexican immigrants) who threatened to diminish your own fortune.

Ohhh you're the one who says we owe stuff to people who come here illegally and that we must provide assistance to their children who are born here. I remember this. Right, you are an advocate of socialism with no end.

Sooo did you come on here to talk about Iran or whether Jesus was socialist and advocated forced redistribution?

that does not in any way excuse being "blind" to the plight of billions of people who don't have enough to expect to survive another day.

Not blind to the plight of billions but realistic in that I cannot possibly fix all that and I don't believe in the UN ability to fix everyone's problems.
Are you by chance familiar with this statement of Jesus
Aramaic Bible

For you have the poor always with you, but you do not have me always.

Matthew 26:11

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus



Do you know what would be a great start?

Obama picking up a phone, and starting diplomatic relations, with Iran. I think that also could be the best first step, our Nation could provide the Iranians. I would give Obama his respect, if he were to do something like that. That is something that really could start the dialog going.


It would also put Israel, China, and Russia on notice, that we are prepared to push for Peace, in that region, regardless on what the naysayers or those who want war, believe. That would be my first wish. True Dialog.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
I am actually the most generous and giving person I know.

If I only had a dime for every time ...
:shk: Aren't we all ...

You mention giving of one's self whilst seeking no 'reward', gain, recognition nor acknowledgement ... and yet offer up ... I am actually the most generous and giving person I know. as some sort of defense or protestation deigned to solidify and/or draw attentions and accolades to said efforts.

Ironically hypocritical much (?)

I realize this observation is somewhat if not entirely off-topic, but you seem to be shooting yourself in the foot with damn near every step taken, statement made or 'point' noted/addressed.

* i hate the smell of holier than thou in the morning*

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Thre is a difference between community and communism, between charitable giving and forced redistribution. But what would you know of that?

Uh,..... what I learned as a child about those who are less fortunate? Or, at university? Or, in graduate school? Or, from my upper-middle-class family??

Why would you resort to portraying me as an ignoramus?

"What would I know of that?" Really?

Yikes. Never mind, Horus. I knew many months ago that you go ballistic at the thought of being held culpable for people not having enough to survive.

Again, calling me a moneyed elite who is unsharing is uncalled for. I have a right to share my money and my energy with those of my choosing. I have always been against forced redistribution, but not against sharing. You apparently do not understand the difference.
If anything you are the one who went ballistic because I called you on your socialistic agenda.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

You're kidding right?

Nope.

goofball seculars.....
...that silly thing....
...Jesus's statements and teachings are clearly misunderstood by you and others, possibly deliberately misconstrued or just out of ignorance....
....But what would you know of that?

...But that is advanced philosophy. ...
I am not certain if you are ready for it.

Bring it on, sister, bring it on....
and while you're at it, stop underestimating the brain power, education, and wisdom of the people on ATS.

Again, wow. Got hostility?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


One more thing Third Eye?


Lets keep it civil. Just my take. I really don't want to see this thread devolve........

Originally posted by Annie Mossity

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
I am actually the most generous and giving person I know.

If I only had a dime for every time ...
:shk: Aren't we all ...

You mention giving of one's self whilst seeking no 'reward', gain, recognition nor acknowledgement ... and yet offer up ... I am actually the most generous and giving person I know. as some sort of defense or protestation deigned to solidify and/or draw attentions and accolades to said efforts.

Ironically hypocritical much (?)

I realize this observation is somewhat if not entirely off-topic, but you seem to be shooting yourself in the foot with damn near every step taken, statement made or 'point' noted/addressed.

* i hate the smell of holier than thou in the morning*

I was responding to an attack on my character but I see now where the poster was coming from and it's from her previous thread in which she insists that we are responsible to take care of the children of illegal immigrants. It seems like she joined this thread just to make that point because I don't see where she had any thoughts about Iran and the geopolitical affects of them having nuclear capabilies. The subject of Jesus is a side note and it's time to stop talking about it.
Got any ideas about Iran or did you just join in to attack me?

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

One more thing Third Eye?


Lets keep it civil. Just my take. I really don't want to see this thread devolve........

Totally agree with you, sonnny. Sorry for my "off the cuff" rebuttal.
I'm done now.

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

One more thing Third Eye?


Lets keep it civil. Just my take. I really don't want to see this thread devolve........

You are right, people started talking about Jesus being a socialist which is not the topic of this thread. Now I am being called all sorts of nasty things by people who appear to have no intent on discussing the topic. So oh well, thanks for your support.

reply to post by wildtimes


Again, want to go back to the topic of Iran and not the topic of giving stuff to American Indians and illegals?

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
It seems like she joined this thread just to make that point because I don't see where she had any thoughts about Iran and the geopolitical affects of them having nuclear capabilies. The subject of Jesus is a side note and it's time to stop talking about it.
Got any ideas about Iran or did you just join in to attack me?

Here's my previous post on the thread, way yesterday....
www.abovetopsecret.com...

anything else?

reply to post by wildtimes


Ah yes I see, reviewing your post now. I must have overlooked it the first time.

I am thinking the Zionists would really like a regime change to take place in Iran without having to get their hands dirty. I think they will attack Iran, but there is a source of contention because Israel does not have long range bombers that can get the job done, so they'll need some help.

www.reuters.com...

They have already bombed and destroyed Syria's planned reactor which was well within range of their F-15 fighter bombers, so it's not a question of if, but when and if they can get the support to do it.

www.jewishpolicycenter.org...

The sad thing about all of this is, I bet the average Iranian doesn't view Israel or the U.S. as an enemy, but if an attack were to happen on their soil I'm thinking that sentiment would change and Israel and the U.S. would have more enemies to deal with and regime change would no longer be an option.

Attacking Iran would be the biggest blunder that the Israel, U.S., or any other "coalition" ally can make. They don't have solid proof that Iran is even producing any nuclear weapons, i.e. the Iraq debacle, and all they would do is strengthen Iran's resolve to actually produce, or acquire a nuclear weapon to prevent such attacks.

The terrorist attacks that would follow an attack like this would be unprecedented.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

The subject of Jesus is a side note and it's time to stop talking about it.

I was not the one who brought up Jesus, btw.

Have a pleasant evening.

Originally posted by majesticgent

The sad thing about all of this is, I bet the average Iranian doesn't view Israel or the U.S. as an enemy, but if an attack were to happen on their soil I'm thinking that sentiment would change and Israel and the U.S. would have more enemies to deal with and regime change would no longer be an option.

You might be right.

I think the majority of Iranians, Israelis and Americans don't want this War.

Its the Leaders of ALL these countries rattling their swords.

If only one of them would open up some dialog, maybe then the push for peace, could happen. I cant state it enough, If the leadership doesn't have the balls to do something, the people in their respective countries should!

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

The subject of Jesus is a side note and it's time to stop talking about it.

I was not the one who brought up Jesus, btw.

Have a pleasant evening.

Actually if you kept up with the thread you would know that someone else brought up the subject then accused me of it.
Have a pleasant one yourself.

ps if you would like to discuss socialism, you could make a thread and I would be happy to discuss my ideas with you on why socialism is not workable, and is not according to Christian teaching.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Got any ideas about Iran or did you just join in to attack me?

Actually, I do ... and the previous post was nothing more than an outside, looking in observation with regards your mentions and missives thus far. No harm. No foul .. Just sayin.

Iran, Me(?)
They're in a sort of no-win type situation here. Much of which is a direct result of their leaders' rhetoric/media outbursts over the years ... no matter how poorly or 'intentionally' translated, but even more due to their being targeted/associated within the 'axis of evil'. Their choices seem rather limited. Westernize [which would seem somewhat agreeable to the majority of the populace] OR stay the course of the current regime, allowing the Ayatollah and religious leaders to speak for and dictate their direction, focus and desires going forward.

Either way ... they're screwed .. whether it be internally via uprisings and social dissidence against the current leadership, regime OR via outside influence from those nations seeking to 'spread democracy', bring them to the table or whathaveyou.

That they are one of the few remaining countries on the face of this big rock with no 'centralized bank' should seem quite telling with regards the 'importance of addressing the situation with Iran', in my opinion.

I'm neither por-Iranian, pro-US or pro-Anything ... i'm just pro-The People... Sadly we aren't as well represented as many would like to think or entertain we are.

Such is the world we live in AND ALLOW.


Sad. That.