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Iran, The real issue, An open discussion

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posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by Eidolon23
 


This is just ' copy & paste ' kinda troll. See the link:

www.thepeoplesvoice.org...




posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:15 PM
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I watched this last night... pretty interesting and convincing. Lots of information and valid arguments.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by Eidolon23
 


This is just ' copy & paste ' kinda troll. See the link:

www.thepeoplesvoice.org...


omg "The People's Voice" for "social justice" and environmental concerns? That is leftist talk for sure. (complete with pics of smiling Obama face---ughhhh)
edit on 19-8-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
I've been reading and participating in many threads over the years here at ATS. I've been often accused of being Islamiphobic, Warmonger and or a brainwashed Zionist stooge etc and whatever else they have in their pocket.

The Iranian Government IMHO has [to the best of their ability in my understanding] tried to maintain order over their population just like any other country [I'll give them that as a right] But, Let's be honest here. There seems to be a fair amount of over the top rhetoric coming from Tehran. No, I'm not ANTI-Iran but rather Anti-BS.

What I've witnessed [I'm sure I'm not alone] over the years here is that when the US and or Israel get's mentioned in any thread, it's usually all hands on deck in denouncement. Meanwhile, when any of similar rhetoric is openly pronounce out of some Iranian official it get's defended or dispelled as "Just rhetoric" for internal Iranian consumption.

Personally and for the record. I'd like to see Iran and Israel put down their penis extensions and come to a face to face at a discussion table [Like the USSR and the US did] and talk it out! Who here can disagree with this proposition?

This isn't a case of one attempting to force their views on another, but rather, it's an open request for an unbiased and objective look and discussion. Does Iran have a right to Nuclear energy? Yes!, IMHO. Should Iran have Nukes? No! Not as long as they continue with the over the top Rhetoric, threats of closing the Straits and funding of certain Covert groups and activities.

Conversely,

Should the US/West take military action against them?

Hell no IMO!



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by Eidolon23
 


This is just ' copy & paste ' kinda troll. See the link:

www.thepeoplesvoice.org...


omg "The People's Voice" for "social justice" and environmental concerns? That is leftist talk for sure.


Definitely leftist. Everyone knows that Jesus was a Socialist...and look the obsessive preoccupation for social justice for the least empowered people in society that he had...right?

LOL



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 





For everyone to sit down at the table like grown-ups we NEED Iran to have nukes


oh great let's have another nuclear cold war....



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by RimDaas


To have a proper view on ALL this, both Nations need to see that they are all HUMAN. The peoples of both Nations, need to change their Governments from within. That's my take on it.



Words of wisdom.

World peace arrives the day all of the world's peasant boys decide that running headlong into machine-gun fire for the economic benefit of those who oppressed his own family back home is a really sh^tty deal and they simply refuse to do it anymore.

What would happen if "they" had a war and nobody showed up?



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by milominderbinder
 





For everyone to sit down at the table like grown-ups we NEED Iran to have nukes


oh great let's have another nuclear cold war....


Correct.

It beats the hell out of having another Vietnam or Afghanistan



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by Eidolon23
 


This is just ' copy & paste ' kinda troll. See the link:

www.thepeoplesvoice.org...


omg "The People's Voice" for "social justice" and environmental concerns? That is leftist talk for sure.


Definitely leftist. Everyone knows that Jesus was a Socialist...and look the obsessive preoccupation for social justice for the least empowered people in society that he had...right?

LOL


You are saying Jesus was a leftist pursuing social justice? So going around healing the lepers was all about redistributing wealth eh? People just sound so silly when they say things like this.

edit: but now that you have explained your belief in free health care and that Jesus must have advocated for it by healing people I see where you are going with this.
edit on 19-8-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by milominderbinder
 





For everyone to sit down at the table like grown-ups we NEED Iran to have nukes


oh great let's have another nuclear cold war....


Correct.

It beats the hell out of having another Vietnam or Afghanistan


We already have another Afghanistan brewing in Syria....And it's not because Iran doesn't have nukes. But it's funny you admit that Iran's nuclear enrichment program is needed not for science energy and health but for armaments......



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by DrWh0
 


I have no idea how to reply to that, or the eight stars it earned you.

I guess I'll click my heels, give you a salute and call it a day.

S69, I truly appreciate the spirit of your OP, and would never have entered into this cesspit of a conversation otherwise. But this kind of thing is what brings me to despair of a reasonable debate here.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by milominderbinder
 





For everyone to sit down at the table like grown-ups we NEED Iran to have nukes


oh great let's have another nuclear cold war....


Correct.

It beats the hell out of having another Vietnam or Afghanistan



yah because mutually assured destruction is so much better than a few limited conventional wars. Are you too young to know about the Cuban Missile Crisis?



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by Eidolon23
 


This is just ' copy & paste ' kinda troll. See the link:

www.thepeoplesvoice.org...


omg "The People's Voice" for "social justice" and environmental concerns? That is leftist talk for sure.


Definitely leftist. Everyone knows that Jesus was a Socialist...and look the obsessive preoccupation for social justice for the least empowered people in society that he had...right?

LOL


You are saying Jesus was a leftist pursuing social justice? So going around healing the lepers was all about redistributing wealth eh? People just sound so silly when they say things like this.


Hey man...you're words...not mine. Your the guy who thinks "social justice" is some sort of leftist plot.

Did ol' J.C. charge people for healing? Is there a chapter of the bible that references the HMO plan he set up? How many people did Jesus stone to death? How many people did he enslave? Did Jesus advocate excessive consumption of resources and gluttony...or in taking what one needed and sharing the rest with those less fortunate?

Remember...your the one who said that the things that Christ was most concerned about were "leftist". I'm just assuming you are correct and then following deductive logic to the conclusion which the evidence best supports.

If you think it sounds silly...maybe you should reconsider your stance on the issue.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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I doubt Saudi Arabia would be comfortable if the Iranians acquired nukes.I think they too will then want them.A nuclear mid-east nightmare.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 


No you brought up Jesus in the context of social justice. You are putting a contempory description over Jesus based on socialist ideals. Evidence that Marxism has infiltrated the church enough to mar the original concept of Jesus' message of forgiveness for sins and a return to Our Father in Heaven.




Remember...your the one who said that the things that Christ was most concerned about were "leftist".


No you were the one who said it. Read your own post.

Here it is for reference



Definitely leftist. Everyone knows that Jesus was a Socialist...and look the obsessive preoccupation for social justice for the least empowered people in society that he had...right?


And no Jesus was not a socialist but a gnostic.


Gnosticism is the mystical arm of Christianity. Mysticism is the search for the Divine within one's self. It is a search within. Gnosis is a Greek word for "knowledge." However, this is not mere book learning; not a garnering of facts. The Gnostic path is a path of direct enlightenment or direct experience - inner subjective knowledge. Once gained, this experience cannot really be communicated to others with words. Gnostics believed that the point of the teachings of Jesus was to pursue this inner path. In Luke 17:21 Jesus advises us that the Kingdom of God is within us.

www.gnostic-jesus.com...


Jesus is said to have come from the Essene community

www.essenespirit.com...
edit on 19-8-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-8-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-8-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by milominderbinder
 





For everyone to sit down at the table like grown-ups we NEED Iran to have nukes


oh great let's have another nuclear cold war....


Correct.

It beats the hell out of having another Vietnam or Afghanistan



yah because mutually assured destruction is so much better than a few limited conventional wars. Are you too young to know about the Cuban Missile Crisis?


No...I'm well aware of the Cuban Missile Crisis. But your logic is all backwards. We aren't talking about a few limited conventional wars at all. We are talking about an endemic state of perpetual asymetric wars which we absolutely positively cannot "win" in a traditional sense.

"The War on Terror" has no end...don't you remember when Cheney & Bush told us all that?

So...the choice we REALLY have is between mutually assured destruction or our own guaranteed destruction...mostly from with within. Unless, of course, you want to resort to outright genocide, as it's the only tactic that has ever proved successful against asymetric opponents.

So...yeah...even though it's a pretty crappy choice, sign me up for mutually assured destruction any day.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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I think the leaders of the world want people looking anywhere but inside the gold stores and bank vaults. The Middle East WW3 jerk off scenario is just an easy way to get us to "look over here", but not the only outlet, IMO.

Big game while the world is fleeced IMO.
edit on 19-8-2012 by Floydshayvious because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 




Am I alone here?


For the greater good of humanity, I sure hope so.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 


No you are all backwards. You keep insisting on saying things and then ascribing them to other people. You have suggested that Iran should have nukes to keep Israel at bay but everyone knows this is a proxy war between the States and Russia which is more Cold War. And you think that building up Iran is going to bring more safety to the region and you would rather have two countries aiming their nukes at each other
lol and you think I'm nuts.

The difference between Iran/Israel and Cuban Missile Crisis is that Russian nukes would have gone directly into the USA.



So...the choice we REALLY have is between mutually assured destruction or our own guaranteed destruction...mostly from with within. Unless, of course, you want to resort to outright genocide

So you are accusing the US of genocide and advocate Iran and Israel aiming nukes at each other... more anti American *^%$#


edit on 19-8-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-8-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by milominderbinder
 


No you brought up Jesus in the context of social justice. You are putting a contempory description over Jesus based on socialist ideals. Evidence that Marxism has infiltrated the church enough to mar the original concept of Jesus' message of forgiveness for sins and a return to Our Father in Heaven.




Remember...your the one who said that the things that Christ was most concerned about were "leftist".


No you were the one who said it. Read your own post.



OK...I'll bite...if Jesus wasn't concerned about social justice, fairness, sharing, and free health care...what exactly were his earthly concerns? Granted...he was big on the whole salvation thing...but he certainly advocated that living a certain sort of a lifestyle was an important part to this salvation, right? I mean...he never told people to go out and horde money and food and laugh at starving people because my Pappy will forgive you anyways....did he?

By the way...how the hell did Karl Marx influence The First Council of Nicea when the Oldest Greek Orthodox Bible was formalized? Does the Vatican have a time machine? Marx wouldn't be born for another 1500 yrs or so....but there are still a whole lot stories about Jesus doing non-profit volunteer work and sharing his magically produced fish and precious few about the sh^tty derivatives trading he did. LOL.

Face it, dude...you worship a deity that espouses the values of pretty much everything you despise politically. It must be very confusing for you.



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