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Iran, The real issue, An open discussion

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posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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I wish people would stop using the "right to use nuclear energy" angle. NO country should have the "right" to use nuclear energy, and the countries that currently do, should be actively forming programs and ideas to shut down the ones that exist now. It's pretty obvious how when even ONE plant can threaten the entire planet, that having 435 plants (the current # that exist), is 435 too many. While the U.S. has a lot of plants (105), there are many countries that rely on them a great deal more than the U.S. - ALL countries that have them should be taking the threat very seriously, and working out alternate energy solutions, and shutting down those plants - the world needs to get off its dependency of a dangerous and foolish energy solution.

Not as if the intentions or Iran are all in the name of their country and people. You are very blind if you fail to believe that they won't use nuclear weapons as a threat to further their agendas moving forward. All it takes is ONE megalomaniac with an itchy trigger finger to destroy the entire planet. What they have for leadership now may be tame compared to what we see there in 20 years. It's a foolish risk to give them something that in 20 years, the entire world may pay for.




posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by mideast


+ Israel is an illegitimate state.

Israel is an invader which didn't ask the local people if they like to be ruled by them. They just invaded , Bulldozered , killed and claimed independence.They are an example of how hypocrite other counties are about human rights.



Hmmmm..

I just want to know, if you are speaking for the average Iranian?

If so, I can understand "why" there isn't any peace between the two countries, if this is how the average Iranian, or those in control, view it. Personally? I cant see the average Iranian thinking this way. Leaders? Yes.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


I agree the Iranians are entitled to nuclear energy, but if a said nuclear program is being developed in conjunction with rhetoric to wipe Israel geographically off the map, then the so-called peaceful Iranian populace should overthrow that madman Ahmadinejad and the ruling theocracy or Israel should do it for them. If there happens to be civilian casualties, then so be it. Sacifices have to be made for a future world existence.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
To the OP, if the U.S can have nukes and Israel can have nukes, why can't Iran also have nukes? Don't all nations have a right to defend their borders from hostile invaders?

The hypocrisy of the U.S and Israel never ceases to amaze.



Unfortunately, You don't see the "hypocrisy" of owning such a deadly weapon. I do. I would love for EVERY Nation, to get rid of them. North Korea became even More dangerous, developing their WMD. Having a Country that constantly threatens, those surrounding them, with Mass Destruction, Is not what I would envision, as a safe, and great way to live. Having a Country with a Supreme Leader, is not the kind of Country, I want to live in either. One that dictates EVERYTHING I do, with my life. Not one Country is the same, but Yes, you have to compare them, with these weapons, to get a better picture.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 11:59 AM
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Good thread, good point but honestly do you really think that someone whose intention is to "Annihilate" israel from this planet could somehow talk this out? Between US and USSR it was ideologic here it is matter partially of religion and history. I think this fight is much more fatal then it could look even if whole planet is not at stake as in USSR vs US. Problems here are deeper and nuclear Iran is only one among others.

IMO those 2 are like matches and fire = explosion dont think that we are going to see them near the table any soon...



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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Oh Boo #in Hoo. Cry me a river.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by UnBreakable
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


If there happens to be civilian casualties, then so be it. Sacifices have to be made for a future world existence.


I dont think you get what 2012 Newclear war tech is all about.

Its not just a Nukie ..its a global thing.

Civilian casualties ?? so Be IT ?? I dont think my 7 year old or my 5 year old sons would agree to that kind of thinking ! I dont agree either ! Why dont you put you and your familly in that Sacrifice thingy and leave my peaceful ( just trying to make it from week to week ) Family out of it !

Apparently you have no Children to speak of ..

JG.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by mideast

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by mideast
 


Your country has never had war? It has hands free of blood? ~sigh~

I'm not able to take the time to link to this so you'll have to do some of your own work here... The two atomic bombs dropped on Japan took about 199,000 lives and stopped a war that had already killed 60,000,000 people. Cherry picking 199,000 of the dead to single out seems a bit disingenuous to me.

~Heff


Yeah , your right.

To win the war.



To turn Japan into a technology slave with no military ability.

To start a new age of Imperialism.

Invade any country USG wants.

To turn other nations into slaves.

Japan = Technology slave

China = Work slaves

Middle eastern countries = Energy slaves

You don't have to defend these actions unless you ignore the truth and you are govt.
edit on 19-8-2012 by mideast because: (no reason given)


Is this your justifiation for war?


Is it yours ?? Your Israel apologist, creationist hating yet Bible backed war thumpers for God are hilariously disingenous and literally sickening too listen to. The programming you have received is impressive indeed, and does NOTHING to advance but only too digress.

I would speak for many when we say we have just about had it to the gills with your constant defence of the same garbage that you claim others to be pulling off...and it is ALWAYS done in a fashion that would HAVE US BELIEVE, that everyone is just an disgusting animal in comparison to the Jew Faith Lovers.

The facts are, I am of Hebrew descent but certainly do NOT bow down before whatever it is GOD that allows such bizarre Good versus Evil conversations that seem too run all of your perceptions of this World.

The slaves to said GODS run both of these sides, and you guys LOVE IT, all the while claiming that it is just logic and Righteous Determination that you should crush the other side, INSTEAD OF MAYBE crushing these FALSE GOD-things that are running the show, in perception, reality WHATEVER.

SLAVES you all are...and you KNOW IT.

The reality of this hi-jacked planet is surely known, and we are awake, and we have grown tired of this...and "God" help you all, because YOUR gods surely are laughing,, laughing at the slaves.
edit on 19-8-2012 by GrinchNoMore because: More



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
To the OP, if the U.S can have nukes and Israel can have nukes, why can't Iran also have nukes? Don't all nations have a right to defend their borders from hostile invaders?

The hypocrisy of the U.S and Israel never ceases to amaze.



Unfortunately, You don't see the "hypocrisy" of owning such a deadly weapon. I do. I would love for EVERY Nation, to get rid of them. North Korea became even More dangerous, developing their WMD. Having a Country that constantly threatens, those surrounding them, with Mass Destruction, Is not what I would envision, as a safe, and great way to live. Having a Country with a Supreme Leader, is not the kind of Country, I want to live in either. One that dictates EVERYTHING I do, with my life. Not one Country is the same, but Yes, you have to compare them, with these weapons, to get a better picture.



Do you think that North Korea would dare use a nuke? Or Iran? These are nuclear weapons we are talking about. Not little toys. Leaders will know the consequences of using them.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Well Slayer, I absolutely agree with your OP, but where I think the biggest challenge lies this time is that there are so many competing ideologies, mostly within Iran, as well as so many different reasons (behind the scenes or public) for action, stances, etc. By the U.S./ Israel.

We've got the quiet control-of-the-middle-east-so-China-doesnt-get-it aspect, which I think is one of the biggest factors. We want either full-on long-term presence (Iraq), or leadership friendly to our cause (Afghanistan, Jordan, etc), so that China, in it's drive for resource control, doesn't swoop in and grab it before we do. Then we've got the nuclear non-proliferation factor. Se don't want Iran to have nukes, and most people would probably prefer Israel disclose and turn over their nukes. We have the terrorism / terrorist sponsorship factor - how do we make nations not sponsor/harbor terrorists without pissing them off and cresting more terrorists? There's more - certainly - reasons for actions, be they diplomatic, war,containment, etc.

Then we have, in Iran, political and religious powers. Within both, we have a far-right and far-left which makes the little differences between the so-called liberals and so-called conservatives of the U.S. look much like they actually are: miniscule. In Israel, we have politicians who want peaceful solutions, politicians who are pushing to annihilate Iran before Iran lifts a finger, and pretty much everything in-between. The ultrai-orthodox religious in Israel don't think Israel should exist yet, somewhere to the religious left of them are those who believe the land is their birthright, and nothing Geopolitical matters because God gave the land to them, and again, everything in-between.

Let's hope the sensible folks figure it out. There are a lot of good, smart people in Israel and Iran both, but they are competing against the "Map-Wipers" of both of their lands. If the wrong side in both bations get their way, we will witness millions of men, women and children either being vaporied or dying painful radiation deaths. In turn, we will likely witness plagues and wider-spread nuclear war, possibly bringing humanity to the brink of destruction.

Two (sorry to offend) piddly-#ss nations with the power to ruin humanity - if the right thinkers can't resolve it, I think the U.S., Russian, and China should announce they will jointly Glass any nation who fires off a nuke.
edit on 8/19/2012 by dogstar23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by RimDaas
 

I really don't think it's the weapon or what a nuclear blast does in reality that any leaders are particularly bothered by. It just does for several miles in diameter what the smaller weapons they order and then order to be used accomplish, as far as National Leaders see or care.

I think it's 100% about the taboo. No one on Earth wants to be the FIRST to break it....but I'll bet you it's a race for who is next. I think we'll find out much faster than anyone wanted...how many have been chomping at the bit to settle a score with a neighbor or someone else....but no one is crazy enough to be the man known forever as the one to become the 'Destroyer Of Worlds' for the second time.


edit on 19-8-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by RimDaas


Do you think that North Korea would dare use a nuke? Or Iran? These are nuclear weapons we are talking about. Not little toys. Leaders will know the consequences of using them.


You tell me.......


North Korea today said it would use nuclear weapons in a "merciless offensive" if provoked — its latest bellicose rhetoric apparently aimed at deterring any international punishment for its recent atomic test blast.



North Korea would use nuclear weapons in a 'merciless offensive'

Rhetoric, or to be taken seriously?

I believe they would.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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What worries me about this thread is people talking about a 'nuclear Iran' as though it matters!

Israel and the US really do not care if Iran gets a nuke, the very notion of a nuclear Iran is just a pre-text for war, another lie (similar to the WMD in Iraq fabrication) to start another war.

It says a lot for this forum really, that this thread gets almost 60 flags for not even posting any evidence- do people really think that we have a choice over this war? Seriously? People are acting like this hasn't been planned YEARS in advance!!

The entire region is under a policy of regime change, it is as simple as that.


edit on 19-8-2012 by Wonderer2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Wonderer2012


The entire region is under a policy of regime change, it is as simple as that.



In Iran, the people wanted change, but the Theocracy, shut it down.....Brutality.

Even though the people knew, that the Opposition Groups,they had to pick from, were hand picked, by the Iranian Supreme Leader, they STILL wanted change.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 


North Korea is next to South Korea and close to China. South Korea has a great military and China has probably one of the world's greatest. These are just words.
And North Korea warned if provoked, they would use these weapons. So if another country started the attack, NK would use their arsenal. They would have casus belli on the other side.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by RimDaas
reply to post by sonnny1
 


North Korea is next to South Korea and close to China. South Korea has a great military and China has probably one of the world's greatest. These are just words.
And North Korea warned if provoked, they would use these weapons. So if another country started the attack, NK would use their arsenal. They would have casus belli on the other side.



That still didn't stop them from claiming to use it "offensively". Think about it. Just look to History, to provide you details of what a Leader of a Nation, will and wont do, to obtain Land, or Power. I also have stated that the Leader of Iran wants to see the 12th Imam, in his lifetime. The ONLY way for that to happen, is to have Armageddon. NO World leader is outright asking for the Messiah to come knocking. That's a scary thought, in itself.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by Wonderer2012


The entire region is under a policy of regime change, it is as simple as that.



In Iran, the people wanted change, but the Theocracy, shut it down.....Brutality.

Even though the people knew, that the Opposition Groups,they had to pick from, were hand picked, by the Iranian Supreme Leader, they STILL wanted change.





There will not be a revolution in Iran as we saw in Libya- the foreign policy analysts have already stated this because the regime it too entrenched and strong.

YET- Regime change is what they want.

Diplomacy has 'failed'.

Sanctions have 'failed'.

The military option is the only policy to get them regime change. Diplomacy and sanctions were just a charade- the policy makers knew the only effect of sanctions was to make the people of Iran suffer- the regime itself has tightened its grip in the country.

There is no debate, they will not stop because the agenda of regime change is what they want- and the people calling the shots don't give a # about America. It's taken years to break down the policy makers but they've nearly got their wish.

America now officially sees Iran as one of the biggest national security threats, it is a complete fabricaction but it doesn't matter what we think because the conflict is already set, it was planned to be this way.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by RimDaas
reply to post by sonnny1
 


North Korea is next to South Korea and close to China. South Korea has a great military and China has probably one of the world's greatest. These are just words.
And North Korea warned if provoked, they would use these weapons. So if another country started the attack, NK would use their arsenal. They would have casus belli on the other side.



That still didn't stop them from claiming to use it "offensively". Think about it. Just look to History, to provide you details of what a Leader of a Nation, will and wont do, to obtain Land, or Power. I also have stated that the Leader of Iran wants to see the 12th Imam, in his lifetime. The ONLY way for that to happen, is to have Armageddon. NO World leader is outright asking for the Messiah to come knocking. That's a scary thought, in itself.



How has the subject changed from NK to Iran?
Anyway please provide me with a source saying that this leader wants to see the 12 imam.
And all Muslims know that only god almighty is the only one who will begin armaggedon. There are several different signs of the arrival of Dajjal and the Iman Mahdi. I suggest you look at them.
www.inter-islam.org...



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:40 PM
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www.shiachat.com.../topic/27369-few-signs-of-the-arrival-of-imam-mehdi-as/

This too.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by RimDaas

How has the subject changed from NK to Iran?


We are talking about one of the most destructive weapons on the Planet... Are we not?
We are also talking about Countries that have them, and you didn't believe Countries are willing to use them offensively. I gave you an example, you shot down. Why shoot down, what was actually said?

BTW, North Korea ALSO said they weren't developing Nuclear Weapons.......


Originally posted by RimDaas
Anyway please provide me with a source saying that this leader wants to see the 12 imam.
And all Muslims know that only god almighty is the only one who will begin armaggedon.


It didnt take long to google it..............





President Ahmadinejad: Yes, that’s true. I prayed for the arrival of the 12th Imam. The owner of the age, as we call him. Because the owner of the age is the symbol of the – justice and brotherly love prevailing around the world. When the Imam arrives, all of these problems will be resolved. And a prayer for the owner of the age is nothing but a wish for justice and brotherly love to prevail around the world. And it’s an obligation a person takes upon himself to always think about brotherly love. And also to treating others as equals. All people can establish such a connection with the Imam of the age. It’s roughly the same as the relationship which exists between Christians and the Christ. They speak with Jesus Christ and they are sure that Christ hears them. And responds. Therefore, this is not limited to us only. Any person can talk with the Imam.


LINK


You can interpret what you like out of the responses. For me, I see death and destruction, when I see the Messiah coming. The World in a lot of hurt and Pain, before it gets better. We haven't touched that sort of threshold yet.
edit on 19-8-2012 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)



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