Iran, The real issue, An open discussion

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by mideast

 

It's fun speculation... but seriously? Japan are our technology slaves??? That is actually funny to me and I bet the folks at Sony would laugh as well.

~Heff

Yes , they are Lions with no tooth.

And they build the Robots you go to Mars with.

Despite their little country , they are always on the edge of technology.

And it USG which tells them what to do and what not to do.

They are slave because they work they and night.

But they don't know who they are working for.

Originally posted by mideast

But they don't know who they are working for.

They work for the same reasons anybody else does. For profit.

~Heff

Originally posted by Hefficide

Originally posted by mideast

But they don't know who they are working for.

They work for the same reasons anybody else does. For profit.

~Heff

Yeah , and they have time to use it.

Efficiency , hard-working , pioneering is what they are truly after generally.

+ what about China and middle eastern countries ?

You can not live like them for one minute.

Originally posted by mideast

+ what about China and middle eastern countries ?

You can not live like them for one minute.

I do not understand the question but if you'll rephrase it, I'll try to address it as best I can.

~Heff

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by jude11

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by jude11

 

I think this is an important aspect of the thread to discuss, please forgive me woodwardjr.

We have learned, Americans have learned through use of nuclear weapons the devastating impact that it has on people. The targets, and the people at home. America is the sole country to have used nuclear weapons in a war scenario, so I feel that it uniquely qualifies them to it's devastating impact. If there were to be any other to judge the impact, it would be Japan.

Now I may be wrong, but I don't see either country endorsing the developing of nukes by Iran.

So that should say something to the rest of the world.

Well, it's still only the Western powers by far that claim Iran is developing nukes and not power.

Secondly, it is still a dangerous precedent that anyone has the right to endorse what another Nation can do within its own borders without proof of an aggressive stance.

Again, no proof. Only media spin.

Peace

Hasn't Iran alluded to the fact that it is interested in deveoping nuclear weapons?

Iran is now telling the world that in order to confront aggression from America and Israel, it must have nuclear weapons.

news.yahoo.com...

AFTER America and Israel ramped up the war machine right?

And don't they have the right to defend themselves against the aggressor? Any Nation has the right IMO.

Peace

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by mideast

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by mideast

 

Your country has never had war? It has hands free of blood? ~sigh~

I'm not able to take the time to link to this so you'll have to do some of your own work here... The two atomic bombs dropped on Japan took about 199,000 lives and stopped a war that had already killed 60,000,000 people. Cherry picking 199,000 of the dead to single out seems a bit disingenuous to me.

~Heff

Yeah , your right.

To win the war.

To turn Japan into a technology slave with no military ability.

To start a new age of Imperialism.

Invade any country USG wants.

To turn other nations into slaves.

Japan = Technology slave

China = Work slaves

Middle eastern countries = Energy slaves

You don't have to defend these actions unless you ignore the truth and you are govt.

edit on 19-8-2012 by mideast because: (no reason given)

Is this your justifiation for war?

No.

That is fact.

I don't justify.

I just say that nations are informed about these facts.

The only reason they don't oppose this slavery is that they are hardly obsessed with TV and enlightenment.

IMO ,that is no reason for war.

It is a reason for change.

Should change always lead to war ?

No. MHO.

reply to post by mideast


As a reality check, we did not turn Japan into anything. They simply embraced capitalism but they are pretty protectionist too and make and buy their own product. The Japanese have been very self sustaining and have become of their own accord very tech savvy. It is a testimony to the brilliance of their own people. They also have deeply embraced the peace of Buddhism. They do have an aging population though, and with many women in the workforce and fewer having children and traditional families, things are changing a bit.

www.economist.com...

reply to post by Hefficide


This is what I have said :

To turn other nations into slaves.

Japan = Technology slave

China = Work slaves

Middle eastern countries = Energy slaves

You say that Japanese are working for profit.

I say "suppose that you are right. then what about people in China and middle eastern countries ? "

You can not live like them for one minute.

Originally posted by jude11


AFTER America and Israel ramped up the war machine right?

Chicken or the egg. Cause and effect. Did Iran start ramping the development of nuclear weapons because of US and Israel aggresion, or is US and Israel aggretion the result of Iran developing nuclear weapons?

And don't they have the right to defend themselves against the aggressor? Any Nation has the right IMO.

Peace

Depends on what side you're on. If an enemy of my country decides to develop weapons that could defeat my country, then no. Of course not.

reply to post by mideast


You are always welcome to your opinion, but don't confuse that with fact.

reply to post by mideast


So Capitalist growth in China is also the fault of the US? Something tells me you have been getting some serious propaganda from somewhere.

reply to post by mideast


What you say is true to an extent but it's not a one sided situation. This is a modern and intermeshed world. The relationships are symbiotic.

Count the Saudi princes who are rich from oil sales to the US.

You can't have a one sided object. Everything always has at least two sides.

~Heff

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by mideast

 

So Capitalist growth in China is also the fault of the US? Something tells me you have been getting some serious propaganda from somewhere.

No , but Capitalism has an international core.

It is about the people who run the war-machine.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by mideast

 

What you say is true to an extent but it's not a one sided situation. This is a modern and intermeshed world. The relationships are symbiotic.

Count the Saudi princes who are rich from oil sales to the US.

You can't have a one sided object. Everything always has at least two sides.

~Heff

Count the Saudi princes who are rich from oil sales to the US.

That is how international capitalism works , that is Imperialism.

USG deals with few people who get the profit for all people.

US govt is backing those kings , or they should have fallen years ago.

Another scenario for slaving people is TV and enlightenment.

People have learned to give their oil and get candy instead.

Princes live like kings from beginning to the end , while ordinary people crave for more candy.

But when Iran says "People , you can make candy for your own. There are things more worthy than candy" , it is the time when there is anger in the face of Capitalists and the princes.



In China , they use force and hardship to enslave people

I wonder what they will they do if they wake up

Originally posted by mideast

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by mideast

 

So Capitalist growth in China is also the fault of the US? Something tells me you have been getting some serious propaganda from somewhere.

No , but Capitalism has an international core.

It is about the people who run the war-machine.

You are confusing Capitalism with Imperialism, but it sounds like you get your info from Marxists and socialists because they have a history of hating capitalism and free enterprise.

The One Child policy is changing the landscape in China as well as other factors.

However, over the next decade or so China’s advantages will be eroded. First take labour. The Chinese labour force will peak around 2015 due to the one-baby policy adopted in the 1970s. Total available labour increased by about 10 million per year in the 1990s and the first half of this decade, it has now fallen to only 6 million each year and between 2010 and 2020 the net figure will be around zero, as deaths equal births.

In China export manufacturers now routinely complain about the difficulties in finding cheap, available workers. This decline in the reservoir of super-exploitable workers is already having an impact upon productivity, with wages rising as a consequence of this “tighter” labour market. Chinese business’s unit labour costs have begun to rise after declining at a rate of 4.5% annually between 1994-2004. In 2005 labour costs rose by 1.5% and in 2006 by 2.9%. In turn some Chinese firms will not be as competitive as they were in certain (mainly labour-intensive) lines of industry, losing market share to other Asian countries such as Vietnam.

www.permanentrevolution.net...

Americans do buy the product that Chinese make. There has to be a buyer for product for capitalism to work n'est ce pas? If the cost of production rises in China, perhaps we will go back to making product here in the States but not if the Progressives continue to overload the system with bureaucratic regulations designed to stunt capitalist growth. After all the Marxist in chief is not here to create capitalist growth but to overload the system with dependents.

reply to post by mideast


I felt I've been clear in several threads that I empathize with the people of Iran. All people of the world for that matter. I wish no harm upon 99.999% of humanity.

I want to be respected so I respect. But I am old enough to understand this, When I was younger I felt the reverse... I wouldn't respect until I was respected. This is not a rational way to be. I have a lot of scars on my body from learning this lesson.

Corporations and big business run everything in the world. $$$ talks. They get what they want.

To equate those interests with "USA" is naive. To equate a nations people with its government is naive. You are aware that we protest our government just as other nations do? Right?

People are people. A very small percentage of people are bad. The rest are OK. To lash out at any whole group is just not logical. There's no honor in it.

~Heff

ETA - addressing member edit:

The Chinese have the largest growing middle and upper class in the world. Slaves don't have plasma TV's and sports cars.... Right?

China is the happiest nation in the world right now. They get all the rewards and none of the blame.

reply to post by mideast


I find the correlation you draw between Iran's nuclear enrichment program and candy a bit strange....

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Capitalism is what they follow in every country to get the profit

But the way they coordinate is imperialism. Energy , working people , scientific improvement.

Originally posted by mideast
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Capitalism is what they follow in every country to get the profit

But the way they coordinate is imperialism. Energy , working people , scientific improvement.

Because goodness knows there is no profit to be had in communist centralised ownership of production.

Iran is not a secular state...Iran is an Islamic Republic,

the political leadership is guided by the Imams,
the Laws, Culture, Commerce, Education, Military are all interwined with Islam Religion...

it would be impossible for the Islamic Republic of Iran to engage in straight-talk in any bi-lateral or multi-lateral mode of talks with non-Islamic Nations.

Your OP idea is thus Flawed...and guaranteed FAIL


We should meet them 1/2 way, --> your suggested conditions are a direct slap-in-the-face to their Ideaology & way of life

We (the USA) could start by not supporting the Kurds as Proxy warriors to fight Iran