Iran, The real issue, An open discussion

I've been reading and participating in many threads over the years here at ATS. I've been often accused of being Islamiphobic, Warmonger and or a brainwashed Zionist stooge etc and whatever else they have in their pocket.

The Iranian Government IMHO has [to the best of their ability in my understanding] tried to maintain order over their population just like any other country [I'll give them that as a right] But, Let's be honest here. There seems to be a fair amount of over the top rhetoric coming from Tehran. No, I'm not ANTI-Iran but rather Anti-BS.

What I've witnessed [I'm sure I'm not alone] over the years here is that when the US and or Israel get's mentioned in any thread, it's usually all hands on deck in denouncement. Meanwhile, when any of similar rhetoric is openly pronounce out of some Iranian official it get's defended or dispelled as "Just rhetoric" for internal Iranian consumption.

Personally and for the record. I'd like to see Iran and Israel put down their penis extensions and come to a face to face at a discussion table [Like the USSR and the US did] and talk it out! Who here can disagree with this proposition?

This isn't a case of one attempting to force their views on another, but rather, it's an open request for an unbiased and objective look and discussion. Does Iran have a right to Nuclear energy? Yes!, IMHO. Should Iran have Nukes? No! Not as long as they continue with the over the top Rhetoric, threats of closing the Straits and funding of certain Covert groups and activities.

Conversely,

Should the US/West take military action against them?

Hell no IMO!

Love it.
S & F for you here.
I agree 100%.
We may not get out of this as "easily" as we did with the USSR, but I think a face to face between the two would do a lot more than what has been done so far.
Regardless, anything's better than where we stand right now.

Love your topic, Slay, should be interesting, pray for peace.

Cause this could get ugly.

They would have to be forced to.It really does seem both sides are crazy enough to pull the trigger this time.Of course Iranian hell fire threats and alleged Israeli attack dates just pushes the unthinkable closer.

Well, I didn't want to be top post for this but I have a comment to throw out there. When Obama suggested in 2008 that he'd sit down with Iran and negotiate, many saw that as weakness and laughed. At the time, I did too.

In the context of the times...wayyyyy back in 2008 (The time compression on all this has been incredible) I still do feel that was a display of weakness and may have encouraged some of what has come. That and statements like it by him..and others, to be fair.

That was then, and this is now though. So much has changed in a few years and not least of which, the entire face and nature of the region Iran sits in. Most of that, in just the past 15 months.


So, my point and main comment is that sitting down now sounds like a GOOD idea because we're dealing with a world that has changed to where that is the best, last and only alternative to war on an unthinkable scale.

And therein is the problem. To sit down and talk, both sides need to RESPECT the other. Iran seems to see us as evil, demented and generally befitting little more than the place of a cockroach. America generally sees Iran as just a few steps above the challenge involved with defeating Iraq and Afghanistan, as defeat came so easily for the straight 'major military' phase of taking the nations.

Without mutual respect which, in my opinion, does not exist at this point, nothing works for getting anywhere in a constructive way. Just my humble thoughts.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Does Iran have a right to Nuclear energy? Yes!,

Yes, why not your government even sold it to them in the first place(a long time ago).

Who cares what people think about you slayer, you are who you are, this thread won't change anyone's opinion of you i hope you know that

You want to speak about the real issue with an open discussion let's do it.

Does the USA have the right to nuclear energy being the only country to use nuclear weapons on another nation?

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


You're looking for a fight in an open discussion thread.

Figures....

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

You're looking for a fight in an open discussion thread.

Figures....

Open discussion equals fight

Damn I missed the memo.

How do you reason with this?
news.yahoo.com...

or this?
freebeacon.com...

this?
www.foxnews.com...
news.yahoo.com...

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


OK..

Do you see a problem with Atoms for peace??

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

OK..

Do you see a problem with Atoms for peace??

Atoms for peace LOL

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Typical...

I'll let your reply just sit there and fester......................

It's a prime example of why there is never any progress..

ETA: I apologize to the reader for seeing that exchange and for being Kurt but...

Am I alone here?

What I don't understand is , what is there to negotiate ? According to Muslim doctrine we are infidels and should be killed so what are our options ? Bow down and all become Muslim ? Wait until they have infiltrated all of western society and be killed off ? Wipe out all Muslim countries ? I would really like to know ?

reply to post by SLAYER69



I think we may have clashed heads over this issue before. But I am glad to see you taking a more balanced approach to the subject. But if we are going to talk about the issue we need to look far deeper than does Iran deserve nuclear power and or weapons.

Whilst it is very true that Iran has no love what so ever for the state of Israel (And please lets not get into it being anti Jewish, it is the state of Israel they hate not Jewish people) there are reasons for that hatred. Just as there are genuine reasons for hatred in Israel for Iran, and we can toss these arguments and the validity for them back and forth but people rarely change their mind.

I understand well enough that Iran makes threats to close the Straights, and calls Israel an abomination and an insult to mankind, but lets look at it from their point of view, Iran is not an aggressive nation, there are links to suggest that they are behind Hezbolla and Hamas. But there are also link to Israeli death squads operating in Iran murdering their scientists. Iran is being constantly threatened with bombings and attacks by Israel, its like being in the playground and the big fat bully is constantly poking you in the shoulder, pushing you and pushing you to make you lash out first so he feels he is justified to punch you up and down the street and he has his even bigger friend behind them to back them up and you know you cant win and just keep getting poked and poked.


So what is Iran to do? They threaten to close the straight, they shout a few angry words at Israel, imagine any country making threats to bomb the USA, shouting off when they were going to do it, Would America sit back and let it happen? Hell no, they would blow that country to smithereens and be justified in doing it, yet Iran has this propaganda day in and day out, Iran knows for sure 100% this attack will come, are they just supposed to bend over and lube up? The whole behaviour of Israel is disgusting, Iran cannot have nukes while they stockpile them, and lets face it Israel is far more violent than Iran, the only war Iran has been involved in has been defensive, when they were attack by Iraq, with American weapons, chemical weapons at that and even when they had beaten back Iraq, they didn't continue, they just defended their borders, Can Israel and the US say they behave the same way?

So they continue to suffer the outrageous sanctions, the constant threat of attack and say they will close the straights and Israel are an abomination, is it really surprising? Would I want to live in Iran? Nope, is their country great? Nope, but it is their country and for them to decide how its run, it is not for the west to dictate how every country is run and Israel should shut its mouth because lets face it, the problems in the middle east all stem from the creation of Israel and its rabid dog leaders, if there was never an Israel these issues wouldn't arise. There is an Israel though and we have to deal with it.

The best thing that could happen would be the US and the west just turn round to Israel and say you start any crap and you are on your own, no support what so ever, however that wont happen, to much influence in the US. If the ME saw the west slap Israel back into place nearly all the problems would go away, but it has festered too long.

There will be war and sadly there is very little us sane people can do about it

reply to post by SLAYER69

Does Iran have a right to Nuclear energy? Yes!, IMHO. Should Iran have Nukes? No! Not as long as they continue with the over the top Rhetoric, threats of closing the Straits and funding of certain Covert groups and activities.

Over the top rhetoric?? Personally i think Iran has the right to close of the straight when the US/EU have a embargo against them based on nothing but personal political rhetoric/fear.

Its not Iran who is hyping up the attention. They are reacting to our accusations, and how we hype up the actions on them.

It is Israel who is saying that they will attack Iran at any moment. Iran is saying they will defend themselves against any attack. In my point of understanding, Iran has a defensive attitude no matter the rhetoric used.

reply to post by rick004

Personally, I think if we are ever going to get down to working things out, we first need to get past that one misconception. ALL Islam isn't out to kill us. If that were true, the 1.2 Billion people they make up in the world population would make fairly short work of the tiny little minorities of Westerners in those areas where Muslims are the primary group. This has never been Islam against us or us against them. Whether that be Sunni (Saudi Arabia) or Shia (Iran) Islam.

We are fighting....and what is fighting us.....is a VERY VERY SMALL % of 1.2 billion people. I'm really not dogging on your point. This strikes me as a fundamental issue that won't go anywhere and will prevent real effort to work anything out.


Now we HAVE to work things out with the Muslims. They HAVE to work things out with us. This isn't optional. It flat out isn't. Unless we see a world where one or the other literally doesn't exist to the last man and woman. In my opinion, we can sort these things out BEFORE a few million people die in a war.....or we can sort things out AFTER a few million people die in a war. One way or another though, and eventually.....we WILL work things out.

Wouldn't this be so much better without the war inbetween what's going to happen anyway?

Bravo !!!!


I would hope those that have an agenda, stick to the real issues, and not their own brand of "facts".

I just want to say, without prejudice, that it's inevitable somethin's a brewin'.
So, should they have the right to nuclear energy? Sure.
Should they make the bomb? DOES IT REALLY MATTER?
If they used one, or any, we would annihilate them. Iran would be re-named Oblivion.
SO why are we scared of them getting the capability? My guess is they already have it!
If they, or anyone else uses it in an act of war, it will be the shot heard 'round the world. (again)
Do we seriously think they are that stupid to use one?
DO they really want to use one?
IMO, I don't think so.
But I think that if they are coaxed into it...it could happen.
Also, my thoughts would lean towards instigation from a certain alphabet agency.
*AHEM...*cough* *cough*

I do believe that if the freaking MSM would just lay off the rhetoric...which is getting infuriating.
And quit hyping it up, because we ALL know they are getting paid to do just that...
We'd be alot better off.
Again, in my opinion, there are men that want the war.
They want to hedge money on both sides.
Like it has been done (and proven) before.
To "bolster" the economy.

Besides, I don't remember the last time Iran attacked anyone.
And who are WE to police the World?



My $0.0002 (adjusted for hyperinflation)

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Everyone has made fine arguments,

Now we HAVE to work things out with the Muslims. They HAVE to work things out with us.

Easier said then done,

blessed are the peacemakers.

reply to post by havok

I just want to say, without prejudice, that it's inevitable somethin's a brewin'.

You bet there is, the collapse of all these nations roundabout Israel is no accident, it is being done intentionally.

TPTB have decided getting rid of Israel is the path to peace, boy will that backfire.

Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.