Was Ancient Egypt Wiped Out by a Mega-Drought?

As I understand it, resent research finds that the Great Pyramids and the Sphinx were constructed about 10,500 years ago. Thus their construction was before the mentioned 7000 year shift in Earth poles.

Also the ancient Egyptian government historically stockpiled enough grain and other dry goods to feed its people for at least 7 years. It is likely that some of the people stockpiled their own grain as well. While the country was dry in terms of irrigation of crops, it is also likely that many individuals grew enough crops and raised a few animals so to feed their households. They would have had a source of water, enough for this purpose but not enough to irrigate on a large scale.

The key to this working for the ancient Egyptians is that they had enough agricultural education to accomplish these tasks on an individual scale. This is true, around the world, even today with many householders having private gardens, and some even having small Aquaponic setups that feed their family fish and greens.

I find the logic of building a pyramid during times of great hardship to be illogical. Such a project is not one that would logically be undertaken during times of famine. Also the construction of the bulk of the pyramid would not be conducive to the storage of grain. Yes the lower chambers would, but certainly not the upper chambers. Grain is like sand or even water, it flows down hill. How could you explain grain being stored in the upper chambers. Likewise the space offered by the pyramids would not be sufficient for the purpose.

That said, If I've misunderstood your assertion, I apologize.

From my limited understanding of Ancient Egypt, their storage bins were underground for the most part. The areas chosen would be very dry, and these storage "bins" would have been surrounded by sand, the entrance would be covered with a stone and then sand. Sand would have precluded rodents, and most bugs burrowing in and stealing the grain. Rodents, snakes, and the like instinctively know that if they burrow into sand, it collapses around them, and they would likely become stuck and die. The Egyptians also knew this and used the sand to their advantage.

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reply to post by Benchkey

Hi Benchkey,

I am not sure to whom you are addressing your post but since it questions the pyramids as ‘Recovery Vaults’ I guess that means moi. So—let me step up to the plate.

Benchkey: As I understand it, resent research finds that the Great Pyramids and the Sphinx were constructed about 10,500 years ago. Thus their construction was before the mentioned 7000 year shift in Earth poles.

SC: I think you perhaps mean the date of 10,500 BCE (i.e. 12,500 years ago). Certainly the so-called Queens Pyramids of Menkaure indicate this date which just happens to be the minimum culmination of the Orion Belt stars. But the point that everyone overlooks is that the second set of so-called Queens Pyramids of Khufu indicate the maximum culmination of these same stars in the year 2,500 CE (i.e. just under 500 years in our future). The combined structures at Giza actually point to the year ca.2,630 BCE and, oddly enough, it is around this time that the very first pyramid is believed to have been constructed by King Djoser of the third dynasty. The year of ca.10500 BCE indicated at Giza is only ONE of two calibration years. Without the second date of ca.2,500 CE the date of ca.10,500 BCE is completely meaningless. You might wish to read through this thread here which explains this in more detail.

Benchkey: Also the ancient Egyptian government historically stockpiled enough grain and other dry goods to feed its people for at least 7 years.

SC: No one doubts that it would be good and sound practice to stockpile various grains/seeds for lean harvest years. Even our own civilisation does this. It’s simple common sense and would most certainly have been an essential requirement in a country that was essentially at the mercy of the Nile flood which wasn’t always consistent from one year to the next.

Benchkey: It is likely that some of the people stockpiled their own grain as well.

SC: Which is all fine and well—except there was little to no water for several decades if not longer.

Benchkey: While the country was dry in terms of irrigation of crops, it is also likely that many individuals grew enough crops and raised a few animals so to feed their households. They would have had a source of water, enough for this purpose but not enough to irrigate on a large scale.

SC: The evidence suggests otherwise.

Benchkey: The key to this working for the ancient Egyptians is that they had enough agricultural education to accomplish these tasks on an individual scale. This is true, around the world, even today with many householders having private gardens, and some even having small Aquaponic setups that feed their family fish and greens.

SC: No one doubts the AEs were accomplished farmers and agriculturalists. But it is difficult to farm during a 30 year or more drought.

Benchkey: I find the logic of building a pyramid during times of great hardship to be illogical. Such a project is not one that would logically be undertaken during times of famine.

SC: According to ancient texts, the early, giant pyramids were built some 300 years in anticipation of this event.

"There was a king named Saurid, the son of Sahaloe, 300 years before the Deluge, who dreamed one night that he saw the earth overturned with its inhabitants, the men cast down on their faces, the stars falling out of the heavens, and striking one against the other, and making horrid and dreadful cries as they fell. He thereupon awoke much troubled... Next morning he ordered all the princes of the priests, and magicians of all the provinces of Egypt, to meet together; which they did to the number of 130 priest and soothsayers, with whom he went and related to them his dream.

Among others, the priest Aclimon, who was the greatest of all, and resided chiefly in the king's Court, said thus to him... I dreamed, said the priest... that I saw the heaven sink down below its ordinary situation, so that it was near the crown of our heads, covering and surrounding us, like a great basin turned upside down; that the stars were intermingled among men in diverse figures; that the people implored your Majesty's succor, and ran to you in multitudes as their refuge; that you lifted up your hands above your head, and endeavored to thrust back the heaven, and keep it from coming down so low...I thought we saw a certain part of heaven opening, and a bright light coming out of it; that afterwards the sun rose out of the same place, and we began to implore his assistance; whereupon he said thus to us: "The heaven will return to its ordinary situation when I shall have performed three hundred courses". I thereupon awaked extremely affrighted."

Continued....

reply to post by Benchkey

Continued from previous...

The priest having thus spoken, the king commanded them to take the height of the stars, and to consider what accident they portended. Whereupon they declared that they promised first the Deluge, and after that fire. Then he commanded pyramids should be built, that they might remove and secure in them what was of most esteem in their treasuries, with the bodies of the kings, and their wealth, and the aromatic roots which served them, and that they should write their wisdom upon them, that the violence of the water might not destroy it." – Murtadi - (992 AD at Tithe, in Arabia). Translated in 1672.

”

Benchkey: Also the construction of the bulk of the pyramid would not be conducive to the storage of grain. Yes the lower chambers would, but certainly not the upper chambers. Grain is like sand or even water, it flows down hill. How could you explain grain being stored in the upper chambers.

SC: You store the grain in sealed stone vessels. From the pyramid of Djoser, the very first pyramid the AEs ever built:

"Except for a small lot of fruits of nabq (Zizyphus Spina-Christi) discovered beneath the Step Pyramid itself, and a single fruit of hegelig (Balanites aegyptiaca) gathered at the northern entrance to the great underground in the west (see pl. I), all other elements come from the group of underground galleries near the northern enclosure wall."

pg. 122, [EXTRAIT DU BULLETIN DE L'INSTITUT D'EGYPTE, T. XXXII - SESSION 1949-1950], LES PLANTES D'COUVERTES DANS LES SOUTERRAINS DE L'ENCEINTE DU ROI ZOSER - SAQQARAH (IIIE DYNASTIE), J.-P. LAUER, V. LAURENT TACKHOLM ET E. ABERG, 1950]

"...Solomon (1965) recorded Sitophilus Granarius from barley deposited in a tomb beneath the step pyramid at Saqqara..."

- Journal of Archaeological science (1999) 26, 547-551 Article No. jasc.1998.0328

"Once again, the investigation of the west mounds is not yet complete, but excavations here have shown that there are no chambers in their superstructures... five shafts and staircases provided access to the substructure, which is composed of long, partly destroyed corridors and projecting side chambers. In some sections, a large number of fragments of stone vessels were found, together with grains (barley and wheat) and dried fruit." - from www.touregypt.net... " target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">here.

"Various complimentary explorations in the Zoser complex were undertaken by Firth. He found in the northern area near a vast rock-cut alter, simulated store-rooms [granaries] above subterranean galleries containing great quantities of provisions of wheat, barley, sycamore figs and grapes..." - Lauer, JP, Saqqara:
the royal cemetery of Memphis : excavations and discoveries since 1850, p.98

"Finally, in the obviously unfinished northern part of the complex, there is a gigantic altar carved into the rock, with the remains of a limestone casing. Offerings must have been exposed on the alter before being taken, through a shaft 60m away, down into the storerooms that branch from a gallery running east-west. These chambers contained mostly wheat and barley..."

- Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, Kathryn A. Bard, p.864

"At the north end of the pyramid complex is a very large courtyard, still not fully cleared of debris, with an altar near the northern wall. Underground galleries along this wall contained real food - granaries of wheat and barley, but also figs, grapes, and bread. An extensive system of underground galleries, mostly inaccessible, is also located to the west of the pyramid and southern court..... Entered from 11 vertical shafts, some of the subterranean corridors lead to long narrow storerooms for an astonishing number of carved stone vessels (about 40,000!), many of which were made in the first two dynasties." - Kathryn A. Bard, An introduction to the archaeology of ancient Egypt, p.129

SC: So, we have never found a single AE king buried in any of these pyramids but we find massive amounts of seed (wheat, barley, grape, tomato, figs etc, etc) along with 40,000 storage/distribution vessels in just a couple of galleries in just one pyramid. Egyptologists, naturally, claim this to be the ‘grave goods’ for the king’s afterlife. I say “No”. What we in fact have all over the Djoser pyramid complex are the remnant of this pyramid Recovery Vault.

Continued....

reply to post by Benchkey


Continued from previous....

Benchkey: Likewise the space offered by the pyramids would not be sufficient for the purpose.

SC: Under the Step Pyramid of Djoser alone, there are literally kilometres of storage space. Indeed, the cubit storage capacity of the early, Giant Pyramids (which was set in place to ensure the recovery only of ancient Egypt) has far more cubic storage capacity than our own Svalbard Global Seed Vault which is hoped will re-seed the entire planet should any major catastrophe strike the Earth. (See here) Keep in mind here that there is a difference between re-seeding the world and feeding the world.

Benchkey: From my limited understanding of Ancient Egypt, their storage bins were underground for the most part. The areas chosen would be very dry, and these storage "bins" would have been surrounded by sand, the entrance would be covered with a stone and then sand.

SC: The entrance would be as hermetically sealed as the AEs could make them. It has often been said that the pyramids of ancient Egypt would make great ‘seed vaults’ since the climate is very dry and the internal chambers could be hermetically sealed.

Benchkey: Sand would have precluded rodents, and most bugs burrowing in and stealing the grain. Rodents, snakes, and the like instinctively know that if they burrow into sand, it collapses around them, and they would likely become stuck and die. The Egyptians also knew this and used the sand to their advantage.

SC: Agreed.

Regards,

SC

reply to post by SLAYER69


Bread and beer?? Really? Aw... Well I dont feel sorry for them now.. Hahaha!

Why would a great civilization build in the middle of the desert? I think the area of the great pyramids was once a great farming area and something changed. Maybe the world tilted? Something climatic happened, the Aztecs and Mayans also suffered from drought. I think mainstream scientist lookover the proof because it doen't fit nicely in their history. When it comes to ancient history, it's wrong. We can't figure out coral castle which was built 50-60 years ago, do you think they really know what happened thousands of years ago? I have a hard time believing in evolution also, what happened to our fur/hair? To many holes in our history books.

There was a documentary last year about the Egyptian mega-drought. Apparently on the walls of one of the tombs of the era (of a civil servant) was a good description of the drought, famine, social collapse, people eating children etc.

Gruesome.

"the sky was clouded and the earth [...] of hunger on this sandbank of Apophis. The south came with its people and the north with its children; they brought the finest oil in exchange for the barley which was given them. My barley went upstream until it reached lower Nubia and downstream until it reached the Abydene nome. All of Upper Egypt was dying of hunger and people were eating their children, but I did not allow anyone to die of hunger in this nome.

It's on this pdf xweb.geos.ed.ac.uk... , along with some climate data relevant to this.

It's not that unusual though, as the Nile does fail to flood sufficiently from time to time. There was also a recent historical record of an Arab physician visiting Egypt and seeing similar condtions during a drought.

reply to post by Benchkey

As I understand it, resent research finds that the Great Pyramids and the Sphinx were constructed about 10,500 years ago. Thus their construction was before the mentioned 7000 year shift in Earth poles.

No it doesn't.The only thing in Egypt at that time were a few sedentary hunter gatherer's, no real civiliisation. You don't even see signs of agriculture or pastoralism prior to 7500 bp at the delta when the Neolithic arrived in Africa from West Asia. I have a very keen interest in pre Neolithic Nile archaelogy, they just didn't have the tech or infrastructure that far back to build it.

The date of sphinx and pyramids are much later, about 4,500 and on.The oldest known is the Djoser step pyramid, and thats about 2,800 BC

There's a spectacular rip apart of the 'ice age sphinx' claims by Schoch at Hall of Maat.

www.hallofmaat.com...

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by crazyguy2012

 

We are a global community now with mass transportation. In this case, Technology can work for us. It seems reasonable to assume as some of Earth's regions become less productive others will become more productive.

It will just take more cooperation

More "cooperative" would be the best case scenario. But I believe that if such thing happens, depending on the areas that become more productive we will see a huge mess.

Sharing with those that don't have much to offer isn't much of a human trait. All we need to do is look at what happens in certain parts of Africa. Most countries don't give a rats rear end to the starving children in there.

reply to post by Heresy


Egypt was subjected to droughts many times over. It's nothing new. At one time in the past most of the Middle East was quite green.

People should know their history of when Arabs entered Egypt with Islam and continued on to sweep Islam all over Northern Africa. Thats historical fact.

reply to post by benrl


Yes, but only if we get really creative. Which we may shortly have to do, if we wish to avoid the fate of Egypt played out on a global scale. There has been speculation that we are in for a mega drought in the South and Mid-west. There is a consensus the aquifer used to irrigate the breadbasket of the world is about to tap out.

www.livescience.com...
www.weather.com...
www.huffingtonpost.com...

The thing that gets me about a lot of these civilizations who seem to die off very rapidly, it that there is usually some indication that they could have avoided their fate. The Vikings who settled in Greenland, for example, starved in settlements sited on rich coastal lands where the waters teemed with fish.

Good book:

en.wikipedia.org...:_How_Societies_Choose_to_Fail_or_Succeed

reply to post by LUXUS


Yeah, let's completely forget about Libyans and Asiatics. *rolls eyes*

Why do you continue to have an abhorrence towards Nubians? The inhabitants of Sudan had a stronger connection with the ancient Egyptians than you think.

i think they diverted the water and used it. some how. and then diverted it back.

reply to post by SLAYER69


One of the Cable channels had a show focused on just this topic

Drought supposedly lasted for 40 years. There was a lake, which was arm of the Nile, dried up and prevented
ships from using the harbor built on it

Drill cores in the area show coarse wind blown sand, not fine water borne silt during this time

The annual flood of the Nile was most important event in life of Egypt - priest would measure the height of the
flood and determine estimated harvest yields and set taxes paid to pharoah accordingly

reply to post by thomas_


Well one could always hope.
If not the consequences would be disastrous...

reply to post by Eidolon23


Hmmm....that is interesting.

I always wondered why Irish died in the potato famine. I mean, they live on a small island. Didn't seafood make up any of their diet?

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Eidolon23

 

Hmmm....that is interesting.

I always wondered why Irish died in the potato famine. I mean, they live on a small island. Didn't seafood make up any of their diet?

Hey there,
Yes, while people starved and ate all the livestock, ate all the other domestic animals including cats and dogs, ate all the birds, rats, fieldmice then ate the bark off of tree, and in a few isolated incedents ate the dead and thier children, they would not eat the plentiful shell fish nor any of the take from the sea.
There was some sort of cultural aversion to seafood which still exsits today.
Ireland, it is Europe's #1 seafood exporter, yet it is Europe's last place seafood consumer

Never mind

reply to post by punkinworks10


Man, you gotta hate when cultural aversion defy logic to the point of mortality.

I would be the village freak in Ireland. I eat a shellfish at least 3 times a week (i use a lot of bay scallops in veggie dishes).

i like seafood, but shellfish in particular are my favorite.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by punkinworks10

 

Man, you gotta hate when cultural aversion defy logic to the point of mortality.

I would be the village freak in Ireland. I eat a shellfish at least 3 times a week (i use a lot of bay scallops in veggie dishes).

i like seafood, but shellfish in particular are my favorite.

that's awsome being of a pacific islander heritage all sorts of seafood are on my list of things to eat, so I couldn't comprehend actually starving on an island.