Pussy Riot jail terms condemned as 'disproportionate'

Russians need to have real opposition in country but not clowns in masks
or they never win in election campain

reply to post by Tindalos2013


ETA: "you" in this post refers to general people who support them, it's not directed at the OP or a specific member.

What I love the most in all this story, is how people pick the right's they want, and forget about the others.

The Russian gov is being labelled as tyrannical and oppressive just because it enforced the law? If you don't agree with the law, that's one thing. But to make prejudice comments about a country just because you don't like religion?

I'm not a religious guy. I don't even care about it. But some people do, and you can't go around selecting which rights people should and shouldn't get.

What about the right to choose your religion, and have a safe place to practice it? They weren't acting in a public place, where anyone can be, and were then arrested for that. They invaded the church, and as much as I think it's pathetic to give such importance to this issue, this is something that hurts a group of people, and they have the right to feel hurt.

Anything other than that is people using their own opinion, disguised as liberty fighting, and some stupid online sense of justice.

They broke the law, they disrespected a temple, and they faced justice. Period.

Invading other people space and passing judgment on them isn't fighting for liberty, nor freedom. It's being F dumb and stupid.

How would you feel if a Muslim or an orthodox band stormed your house, started calling you infidel, accusing you of everything they think is wrong with the world and disrespecting your family and your beliefs?

Would you like that? Would any of the people with such high moral values in here, appreciate if someone from the other side of your "belief-fence" would invade and disrespect your space?

I think not. I actually believe that if the opposite would happen in a country like the U.S., they wouldn't be arrested, they would have been shot, and not even by the police.

Rights and respect are for everyone, and not just for your buddies or the thing's you enjoy.

You want to protest using music? Learn how to compose, sing and play a good song. Instead of the usual "we can't sing shat, but we do it anyway because we are awesome and we make money fighting for right's!"...

Kids, a good advice: John Lennon inspired more people, brought more messages of peace and love, and he never disrespected anyone.

Stop acting like stupid right-fighting punk kids and grow up.

reply to post by Tindalos2013


in Russia some people attack the Christian religion because of the fact that the Christians say that we have no right to rewrite the Bible so as not we wrote it. it all disguised criticism of Putin's the place of the main Church of Russia was not chosen by chance

reply to post by becomingaware

Jesus Christ, two years for singing a protest song in a church? Remind me to never visit Russia.

In fact, similar cases have played out in the West - minus the feigned indignation over the perceived violation of free speech of alleged bigots, racists, and hooligans that have preceded "Pussy Riot." In many cases, the West has actively pursued not only people harassing others and creating public disturbances, but also those distributing material to like minded people who's beliefs are simply perceived as "socially harmful."

Regardless of what one's beliefs may be on "freedom of expression" and what lines if any exist between responsible and irresponsible use of this freedom, one cannot ignore the astounding hypocrisy exhibited by the West - now wringing their hands in feigned disapproval over the jailing of "Pussy Riot" while their jails are full of "hate speech" perpetrators - many of whom did not even specifically target or disturb the subjects of their perceived scorn.

reply to post by Todzer


Pussy Riot sang a punk-prayer that the virgin Mary would liberate the people of Russia from Putin's rule.

Comparing that to vandalism is like comparing the dropping of bombs on civilian targets to humanitarian aid.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


They were inciting hate against a religious group, do you justify their actions when their supporters respond like this www.youtube.com...

It is the laws of the country if they didn't want to be arrested why go to the church in the first place?

reply to post by Todzer


To sing in a church without permission and to cut down a cross is two different things. 2 years for song? Are you serious?
Those who cut down a cross - yeah this is inciting religious hatred,period. But members of this band have nothing to do with cutting the cross,do they? They sit in jail for half a year for performing political anti-government song in a church without permission. Whatever people claiming that they are their supporters do in foreign country - is not their fault.
Fine,apology and public works - this is the fitting punishment for that group. Maybe obligatory music lessons too. 2 years of labour camp - is insanity.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


They were found guilty of hooliganism motivated by religious hatred by the judge, describing them as blasphemers who had deliberately offended Russian Orthodox believers. The video above would not have happened if they had not committed the original crime but yes I do believe that it is a very harsh sentence but why do it if you know that there is the possibility of ending up with a two year sentence. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

reply to post by Todzer


The courts in Russia are directly controlled by Russian government. Not a secret, really. If that group sang without permission in favour of Putin and against opposition ,it would not be 2 years or even 1 day.
Can you tell me which part of that (bad) song was blasphemous?
Edit:Just found the text
Virgin Mary, Mother of God, put Putin away
Рut Putin away, put Putin away

(end chorus)

...
Black robe, golden epaulettes
All parishioners crawl to bow
The phantom of liberty is in heaven
Gay-pride sent to Siberia in chains

The head of the KGB, their chief saint,
Leads protesters to prison under escort
In order not to offend His Holiness
Women must give birth and love

#, #, the Lord's #!
#, #, the Lord's #!

(Chorus)

Virgin Mary, Mother of God, become a feminist
Become a feminist, become a feminist

(end chorus)

The Church’s praise of rotten dictators
The cross-bearer procession of black limousines
A teacher-preacher will meet you at school
Go to class - bring him money!

Patriarch Gundyaev believes in Putin
Bitch, better believe in God instead
The belt of the Virgin can’t replace mass-meetings
Mary, Mother of God, is with us in protest!

(Chorus)

Virgin Mary, Mother of God, put Putin away
Рut Putin away, put Putin away
freepussyriot.org...
It is clearly against Putin and not religion.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


That is not my point at all, I stated why go to the church and do this if you know you will end up in jail, you are trying to turn this into something else, I never said the courts weren't controlled by Putin, if you personally knew that doing this would land you in jail and your friend suggested to do it would you go? They knew what would happen and still went to the church, either wanted to get arrested or have no common sense.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


What way do you look at "sh*t sh*t the Lord is sh*t"?

Originally posted by geobro
if you cant do the time dont do the crime they will be out in a few months as they have already done 5 months usually you do half the time in civilized countrys

It ignorant comments like that, that are slowly killing freedom an liberty.

The people must be heard, not silenced.

reply to post by Todzer


In the source i found it does not say the Lord is #. It clearly says Lord's #. Maybe bad translation?
Anyway - sending someone for 2 years for this is blasphemy. As for knowing that this offense gets 2 years - i doubt that singing against Putin in Church is punishable by two years.
However if you throw in irrelevant law as in this case - then one can twist it this way. I tell you again - if they would sing with the same "# words" but against opposition to Putin they would not get a single day in jail. It is political trial for hooliganism offense.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Again I am not disagreeing with the harshness of the sentence but did they think that they would get a hug off Putin for this? They went there with the intention of getting arrested and guess what happened, they knew that this would not end well for them and went ahead with it. Now they ARE inciting hate against the church, their supporters are cutting down crosses topless in Kiev. Why are they not protesting against Putin in Kiev?

Sentances are a little harsh. The Russian Orthodox church needs to stay out of politics. Jesus never commanded us to gain worldly power and wealth, nor did he give us commission to play politician. This church needs to know it's place, which is as a servant to the people not to the whims of an egotistical dictator.

reply to post by Todzer


Whoever cut that cross in Ukraine did much worse thing then singing against Putin. But you cannot blame the people who sit in jail for half a year during the trial for song against Putin, in what a person claiming that she is their supporter did in Ukraine.
And when (i hope soon) she will be caught she will not get two years in labour camp for offense that is much worse then singing.
And that band went specifically to Church to create provokation - this is true. If it is about that then fine them, legally oblige to apologise and send them to clean and paint old Churches as public service. But it is about government.

Originally posted by Todzer
They can't expect to vandalize property without legal consequences, imagine the church going around vandalizing THEIR property, there would be uproar but when anything happens to the church it's ok. Seems that the church can't win these days no matter what....

So again we have people responding to a story that they clearly haven't even read.

They were charged with Hooliganism, NOT Vandalism. They didn't cause any damage inside the church at all. They performed a song - I believe it was not even an anti-religious song - the lyrics of which asked the Virgin Mary to remove Putin.

The point of the protest - which people would know if they actually read the story - was to highlight the corruption between church and state. Putin "hijacked" the Moscow church and used it as a political platform for his campaign leading to an election that is widely believed to be suspect by any democratic standard.

This is about some kids being rowdy in a church. This is punk music, the tradition of which is to be rowdy and ask difficult questions of the establishment and draw attention to corruption, illegality, immorality and hypocrisy.

The idea that people should be locked up for two years based on their political beliefs is sickening to any moral person, religious or not.

Those who are religious, and claim that this sentence is justified, should invent a time machine and go back a few hundred years to a period when they would be more comfortable. Perhaps these kids should be thrown into an oubliette to satisfy the maniacal Christian faith and silence their opinions?

We don't live in the 1500's. Welcome to modern times, where people have opinions and are free to express them - or should be - no matter who feels "offended" by those beliefs.

It's amazing that Americans on here can scream about their freedom of opinion when it suits them. When it goes against their faith they would quickly round up anyone expressing their views in a way they don't like and have them locked up for it.

Once again, people are showing their hypocrisy, and it's ugly.

Originally posted by Todzer
reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

 

Again I am not disagreeing with the harshness of the sentence but did they think that they would get a hug off Putin for this? They went there with the intention of getting arrested and guess what happened, they knew that this would not end well for them and went ahead with it. Now they ARE inciting hate against the church, their supporters are cutting down crosses topless in Kiev. Why are they not protesting against Putin in Kiev?

You cannot blame people for the actions of others. If that were the case we would have no heavy metal music, no real art, no literature... Would you have charged Marilyn Manson with mass murder if the Columbine shooters had been proven to have been fans as the media claimed?

That's just insane!

They are not inciting anything, their statements in court have been well written, balanced and highly articulate, and not once in any of those statements have they attacked the church. They've attacked Putin, who used the church for political gain.

Hooliganism in Russia usually receives a maximum of 15 days. They received two years.

I can understand people being angry about that and wanting to take it out on any symbol of the government or church, that makes sense. If Putin had a freakin' brain he would have discussed this with the church (because he is CLEARLY pulling the strings here, not the courts) and come to a punishment that was more acceptable to everyone.

They could have released them, after all they have been in detention for months already. But instead they were given a ridiculous sentence as POLITICAL PRISONERS, and Putin has done more to enrage an entire generation of Russians who were already protesting against the very idea of him taking back power again.

I don't agree with the woman cutting down the cross. I think she should be caught and punished (within reason, after all it is an inanimate object and no one was harmed). But I refuse the concept that someone can be labeled as "inciting" because of their actions.

reply to post by detachedindividual


But my point is that if they had gone to a McDonald's and had their protest the church would be totally left out of it but by going there they have been dragged straight into it whether they like it or not, why pick the church in the first place? Why not any other building, they brought the church into it and now people are cutting down crosses, whether they meant to or not their actions are leading other people to blame the church.

Do not presume you know me I am NOT American.

reply to post by Todzer

nobody was punished for much more bad words to Putin yet
those idiots were punished namely for the attack of religion
state according constitution of RF must protect those places