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Israeli Wine Festival called 'unforgivable sin' by Islamics

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posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:15 AM
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Al Arabiya - Israeli Wine Festival called 'unforgivable sin' by Islamics


Muslim groups expressed outrage on Thursday over plans to hold a wine festival in the Israeli city of Beer el-Sabe, which is due to take place next month in a courtyard outside a building formerly used as a mosque.

The southern branch of the Islamic Movement in Israel has said the festival constitutes an “unforgiveable sin” and is “a harsh blow to Muslim sensitivities,” according to Israeli media reports. Islam prohibits the consumption of alcohol.


Info on the Islamic Movement in Israel as claimed by that Group

The general aims of the movement are:

- To encourage observance of Islamic law
- Cultivating Islamic culture
- Islamic education
- To carry out social welfare programs
- Protection and cultivation of Islamic holy sites
- Assistance to Palestinians in the Palestinian Territories.
- The positions regarding Israel vary depending on the branch:

Northern branch - No recognition of the State of Israel's right to exist, with the ultimate goal of it being replaced by an Islamic state. Readiness to make use of its institutions to satisfy immediate needs.

Southern branch - No recognition of the State of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, readiness to take part in the political process and influence decision-making from within the framework of the state's institutions.


My comments -
- the festival isn't in the old building.
- the old building hasn't been a mosque since 1948.
- the festival doesn't impact the muslims in any way .. except perhaps boost the local economy which is good for them as well as everyone else in the area.

Wine is an 'unforgiveable sin'??? Really? I guess they forgot that Jesus, who they say is a prophet of some kind, drank wine and so did his followers. He even turned water into wine. So how can wine be an unforgiveable sin if someone they call a holy man drank it and made it for others to drink ?? Ugh .. extremism.
If you all would just live and let live, you'd all have a much better quality of life over there.




posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:26 AM
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Next I suppose any slaughterhouse that does not perform Halaal butchery will probably also be called an "unforgivable sin".

Honestly, how far can religious sensitivities go?
It's a slippery slope.

Well in the religion of my parents wine is also a sacrament, so it's one sensitivity against another.
I'd also find it very insensitive then if some Christian churches are not supplied with legal wine in Islamic countries.
But I'm sure Islamic countries would never be that insensitive.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:29 AM
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Wow, Muslims complaining about something and trying to enforce their beliefs on others.

That hardly ever happens.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:37 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Muslims don't seem to be big on live and let live.

Their way is the only way, making it rather ironic that some misguided individuals are so tolerant of Islamic intolerance.

For instance,


When 500 British Muslims were interviewed, none believed that homosexual acts were acceptable.

The Guardian


Muslims are merely following the dictates of their religion when they show zero tolerance to homosexuality.

The penalty for homosexual acts is death, according to Muhammad in the hadith. Sunna Abdullah ibn Abbas Book 38, Number 4447


edit on 18-8-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:38 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I know it's not right.
I know that I'm bad.

But a table of bacon-flavoured wine would hit the spot.





posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 07:36 AM
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I think what also matters here is perhaps eviction and a lot of other possible grievances.
Perhaps the wine festival in a former mosque is just a reminder of wider ethnic cleansing and dispossession.

Seen from that perspective the issue is perhaps no longer so amusing.

Fundamentalist people can be spiteful and do things to deliberately insult others.
Just like the Romans once put pagan statues in the Israelite temple as a sign of conquest and triumph.

Perhaps there are deeper issues here that this festival brings to the surface.

Just a thought, and I wouldn't get involved in such a situation.
I have my cultural bias, but I'd try to understand both sides.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 





Wine is an 'unforgivable sin'??? Really? I guess they forgot that Jesus, who they say is a prophet of some kind, drank wine and so did his followers. He even turned water into wine. So how can wine be an unforgivable sin if someone they call a holy man drank it and made it for others to drink ?? Ugh .. extremism. If you all would just live and let live, you'd all have a much better quality of life over there.


You have no idea why Jesus turned water into wine do you? It's because the water wasn't very clean back then turning it into wine made it safe to drink. Drinking wine isn't a sin but drunkenness is a sin.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by halfoldman
I think what also matters here is perhaps eviction and a lot of other possible grievances.
Perhaps the wine festival in a former mosque is just a reminder of wider ethnic cleansing and dispossession.

Seen from that perspective the issue is perhaps no longer so amusing.

Fundamentalist people can be spiteful and do things to deliberately insult others.
Just like the Romans once put pagan statues in the Israelite temple as a sign of conquest and triumph.

Perhaps there are deeper issues here that this festival brings to the surface.

Just a thought, and I wouldn't get involved in such a situation.
I have my cultural bias, but I'd try to understand both sides.


I see your point, but may I ask of your opinion of muslims wanting a mosque at the site of the 9/11 airliner attack?



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:11 AM
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Just a thought, but I think I recall that the first thing Abrahm did after leaving the Babylonian cities was to plant a vineyard.

Now Judaism, Christianity and Islam are known the "Abrahamic religions".

OK, Muslims and other ideally dry people might say a later prophet gave new rules and clarifications.
But still, Abraham drank wine, and so did Lot in Genesis 19 when he has incest with his daughters (after God destroyed Sodom and turned his wife into a pillar of salt).

Now coffee I'm not so sure about.
That was once regarded as a complete narcotic in Western society.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by FlyersFan
 





Wine is an 'unforgivable sin'??? Really? I guess they forgot that Jesus, who they say is a prophet of some kind, drank wine and so did his followers. He even turned water into wine. So how can wine be an unforgivable sin if someone they call a holy man drank it and made it for others to drink ?? Ugh .. extremism. If you all would just live and let live, you'd all have a much better quality of life over there.


You have no idea why Jesus turned water into wine do you? It's because the water wasn't very clean back then turning it into wine made it safe to drink. Drinking wine isn't a sin but drunkenness is a sin.



That is not the reason, If that was the case he could have just miraculously purified the water.

He turned water into wine because he was at a wedding feast and they ran out of wine. That was a perfect opportunity for him to perform his first miracle. This provided evidence to his disciples that he was the messiah and they began to put faith in him.

You are correct though that water was notoriously bad back then, That is probably why the Apostle Paul urged Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach problems.

edit on 8/18/2012 by Sparky63 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 

I think that could be an issue for a whole new thread (if it isn't already).

I don't know much about it.

From what I heard Muslim people died in the attacks too, so as long it's not an exclusive thing only for one religion then why not?

I mean I don't want to attack religions as such, just pushy people who want to prescribe things to others.

I don't see how a mosque would be prescribing things to others.

But yeah, I can see the sensitivities, and if I was a Muslim in the US (who are quite a sizable community from what I hear) I would not do that.
On the other hand, doesn't it give those Muslims who are patriotic Americans the opportunity to differentiate themselves from the terrorists?

Well the thing is that just because one can do something doesn't mean one should always do it.

I mean say as a gay person I could compromise with Pride events and routes, but I also don't want a situation where people say "stay invisible", or "don't march at all".
Compromise comes from two sides.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


I don't mean to put you on the spot. Apologies if it felt that way. It's just that when you brought up historical sensitivities, that came to mind.

Thanks for answering.

beez



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 

No apologies required at all.

Indeed, my apologies for not being able to offer anything but an anecdotal answer and a repetition of the problem to a very good question.
Rarely is such a good question posed to me directly, and I hope I didn't blow the opportunity.

Back to the OP issue - I'm not convinced I know enough about the communities involved, especially as it's a notoriously antagonistic situation in those parts.

So I can't say who's being spiteful, or silly, or pushy.

I know that a percentage of Palestinians were always Christian (I once heard as much as 20 percent), so the wine itself is maybe not the real issue.

My personal bias is: roll out the barrel ...
All those people need is good drinking session together.


edit on 18-8-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


People like you are a sin.

I don't need a reason to say that. I also think drinking water is a sin, and breathing oxygen is a sin. Smiling is a sin as well.

Socks. Wearing socks is a sin. Don't ask me why, my God told me over breakfast that it was, so it must mean it is.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


Oh sorry I forgot to actually refute your ignorance in my sarcastic post.

"unsafe drinking water" is a phenomena known only to areas of exposed drinking water. For instance, drinking water was not safe to drink in the Tiber. This is because of waste, agricultural runoff, human waste, and a large amount of dead bodies.

Similarly in lakes around highly populated areas.

But in Galilee, particularly Cana where the supposed miracle took place, the only source of water was a well. Wells do not contaminate. Soil is a natural filter... it would take an exceptionally large amount of well placed human waste to contaminate a well that deep.

Cana also was not a densely populated metro area. It takes a lot of people to contaminate a water source (as the source is always moving). When you hear stories of contaminated water sources, it's almost always either a massive city, or during a time of extreme population (late middle ages for instance) where all water down flow from a populated area was contaminated.

So this leads to the conclusion that if Jesus indeed turned water into wine, he did so because he wanted to drink wine and have a good time. Probably because everyone at the party were uptight religious asshats who didn't know how to have a good time without a bit of wine.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 11:58 AM
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Personally I don't have a problem with it. If someone wants to drink, that's fine. It is being a slave to alcohol that I do not approve of.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Its stuff like this that shows how stupid we are as a whole and I bet of all the species of intelligent beings in the universe humans whine and complain the most about stuff that should not even matter!

I cant even believe we have progressed this far technologically and are still mentaly stuck in the dark ages it seems? I respect anyones religion or belief even if I dont agree with it and common sense should tell us that mutual respect is the only way to a civillized society?

Humans get way to offended and have a bad habbit of doing bad things in the name of honor or religion and imo its going to bo our downfall.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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Its Israel, its their tradition.

When in Rome-



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 01:34 PM
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I don't know... maybe Beer-el Sheba should have a beer festival instead...

Joke aside, there is less difference than the two clashing cultures admit.
Islam was traditionally more tolerant of another type of household material which the rules of ATS do not permit me to name. Think Arabian Nights...
However, the chemicals in that - Muslims would be shocked to find - are polyalcohols.
These modern Islamists are just as boring and dry as their brothers and sisters in the American Prohibition.

Wine is one of the mildest forms of a natural altering of consciousness, even eastern meditation experts say so.
And Israeli wine is way too good...
No wonder Jesus liked it too.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Muslims don't seem to be big on live and let live.

Their way is the only way, making it rather ironic that some misguided individuals are so tolerant of Islamic intolerance.

For instance,


When 500 British Muslims were interviewed, none believed that homosexual acts were acceptable.

The Guardian


Muslims are merely following the dictates of their religion when they show zero tolerance to homosexuality.

The penalty for homosexual acts is death, according to Muhammad in the hadith. Sunna Abdullah ibn Abbas Book 38, Number 4447


edit on 18-8-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)


It would be very funny if the homosexuals started their own religion, and then called the principals of Islamic law fundamentally sinful, and that all Muslims by nature are in sin and should be put to death.

Then they can launch their own city (oh they already have it, San Fran/Castro) and when each grows large enough, the muslims from NY will go to war against the homosexuals.

Just wait until the muslims get on their knees to pray...look out!



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