The crucifixion of the ego.

Just take a look at the word Cruz means cross and we all know what fiction is by now. So what are we up to? X marks the spot and in this case there has been a lot of pointing at the ego in the last 100 years. But lets face it its not new, its been around a long long time. But in the medieval days we would hunt the witches, or the devil in anybody. Now we are more refined we are all told that the ego is to blame for all of our maladies. “If only I hadn’t of been so ego centred, If only this and if only that” ahhhh! God am I tired, not of the ego but of the ego crusades.
For me the problem us humans have and some of the gods also is not their ego, but rather their reasons for doing any act. It is when we ignore the reasons why we do things that we make more trouble than we ever needed. The problem is the mindless ego not the ego, its like a car without a driver its dangerous. Don’t you want somebody to blame, well blame the ego. There is are so many of them around, I am sure you will find one to blame.

No one ever wants to take responsibility for their actions. Doing so, may cause some ill effect on their lives, so it is always every one else to blame!

If people would step up to their actions and accept them, I think some could be a lot happier.

reply to post by ancientthunder


Do you think the proponents of the ego-crusades realize that their personality, individuality, and identity, the very things which give them the ability to resist their ego, come from the same-such ego? Further, do you think they realize the ego is just a poetic projection of their conscience, as it is understood through their consciousness? I wonder what will happen the day the ego-crusaders achieve their goal... and cease to be entirely; empty shells of once-human beings.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

Ah the wondering scribe, I will answer those deep questions later on down the line, but I was hopeing from any of you is what you think or what you feel about it.This is when ATS becomes alive with insights from all sides!
must continue now as I am transcibing a book at the moment. may your quill be light and full of ink.

reply to post by ancientthunder


Ha ha, I am definitely pro-ego.

I see no reason to try and oppress or remove the thing which makes us unique and individual. Some people will say "spirit" or the "higher self" is responsible for individuality, but the reality is, our unique identity is created from the things which we champion and agree with: our beliefs, morals, ethics, faiths, fears and loves. The ego.

Let the ego-crusaders hang themselves from their empty spaces
Watch their shade-less specters dance through colorless skies
As they saw themselves in life
So they'll be in death
Ego-less, empty, bereft

My quill is never silent; my well never empty.

~ Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

ha ha , that was really wonderful,a pleasure to hear and the poem at the end is divine right from the ink and quill to the depths of your being. Our word must never be compressed or depressed by the dubious doubt of others. Those others who seeks to limit the individual wisdom that is available with the oppressive limited mind.

reply to post by ancientthunder


I like the way you split crucifixion into two words, 'cross' and 'fiction'. I think you are saying that man is fiction and that this fiction must die to know God. I agree.
Man has words, the use of these words remove him from the truth if they are believed without question. Man is the only speices that has words and when they are strung together they make stories. Words make stories. Words decieve. Words make beliefs (stories).
When the words are removed all that is left is the presence of the lord. This, right here and right now is all there is but words make believe there is more.
This is why God says 'have no other'. There is no other, this is it.

When it is realized that words are fiction, the words can be watched appearing in the only thing that is not fiction.
The words can be seen appearing presently in presence as presence.

reply to post by Itisnowagain
thanks for your reply also, it was very direct from your heart and somehow you have gone beyond the story, beyond the words. Your insight is shining through the now, and that now is revealing so much, many thanks hugs AT.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Everything in the Universe is already unique, there is no need for it to try to be. An enormous beach, with a billion grains of sand, and not two grains are identical. In fact, it is not possible to become more unique, that is but an illusion of a narcissistic mind. So this begs the question, what is the ego?

reply to post by openlocks

Everything in the Universe is already unique, there is no need for it to try to be.

Every molecule of the universe is exactly the same as every other molecule of the same type. Every Nocardia bacteria is exactly the same as every other. The universe is built upon similarities; it's only the higher life-forms, sentient creatures, which develop individuality.

In fact, it is not possible to become more unique, that is but an illusion of a narcissistic mind.

I am a writer, a father, an armchair philosopher, and a practicing Sumerian spiritualist. If, this instant, I decide to take up an active interest in Libertarian political philosophy I am more unique. If I decide to go to college and change my major to special education instruction, I will be more unique.

There is no limit to the capability for sentient, higher life-forms to develop toward.

So this begs the question, what is the ego?

The ego is a conscious reflection of our personal selves.

~ Wandering Scribe

"your problem is that you will not accept a paradox"
watch the movie
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It is when we ignore the reasons why we do things that we make more trouble than we ever needed.

You hit the nail on the head with that one. Blaming the ego simply is a fail safe. Ultimately i am not responsible for my actions because another part of my subconscious/conscious influenced and directed my decisions and actions. Rather than having the person do some self seeking, its much easier to blame it on another aspect of their personality, an aspect they may or may not be able to control.

Nice insights Wandering Scribe.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

Every molecule of the universe is exactly the same as every other molecule of the same type. Every Nocardia bacteria is exactly the same as every other. The universe is built upon similarities; it's only the higher life-forms, sentient creatures, which develop individuality.

What you are describing is a static universe where nothing could exist. Sure, particles and molecules seem to us (as of right now) to be identical in structure but not in expression. Just as every cell in your body is coded with the same exact genetic coding, with the same exact structural appearance, each one however expresses itself differently, which is how you have growth and decay, and how some cells create heart tissue and some create brain tissue...

How does the molecules that make up the cells in your toenail differ from the molecules that make up the cells of your eyeball? They structurally don't, and yet there is obvious differences between a toenail and an eyeball, which means what? On a fundamental level everything is the same, and on an expressive level everything is unique.

Of course the universe is built upon similarities, it is but one movement, but that does not mean that each expressing part is not intrinsically unique. This is how growth (expansion) and decay (contraction) is possible

I am a writer, a father, an armchair philosopher, and a practicing Sumerian spiritualist. If, this instant, I decide to take up an active interest in Libertarian political philosophy I am more unique. If I decide to go to college and change my major to special education instruction, I will be more unique. There is no limit to the capability for sentient, higher life-forms to develop toward.

You will say "I am more unique" but you are not anymore unique than you already were, because you were always unique and as you said, there is no limit to that. Down to every molecule you are unique. Which is why I called this thinking of "I'll be more unique if I do this..." narcissistic. Not taking a stab, it just is what it is.

Either we are already unique as can be, or there is no such thing as uniqueness. In other words, we either choose to look at a expressive level or a fundamental level.

The ego is a conscious reflection of our personal selves.

Hmmm... that sounds nice, but I'm still not sure how that differs from any other thought.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

Do you think the proponents of the ego-crusades realize that their personality, individuality, and identity, the very things which give them the ability to resist their ego, come from the same-such ego? Further, do you think they realize the ego is just a poetic projection of their conscience, as it is understood through their consciousness? I wonder what will happen the day the ego-crusaders achieve their goal... and cease to be entirely; empty shells of once-human beings.

First query, I really don't think so if they did! well a change of direction would have to occur.
Second query, I doubt that is realized but you never know there might be some very strange egos out there that do know and love to let the ball keep rolling. At the end of the day, whatever the ego goes and does, is the business of the ego. the day that needs to stop will reveal itself.
Last part,,,,,,,, what will happen is the ego will convert itself in to the empty shells of the once human beings they thought they were.

Old brain versus new brain.

Old brain is instinctive and millions and billions of years old.

New brain is more about making complex choices and using gray matter.

It isn't a perfect process. No guarantees.

Natural selection. Trial and error. Turbulence. Survival of the fittest.

We're animals, bottom line. Not gods.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
Old brain versus new brain.

Old brain is instinctive and millions and billions of years old.

New brain is more about making complex choices and using gray matter.

It isn't a perfect process. No guarantees.

Natural selection. Trial and error. Turbulence. Survival of the fittest.

We're animals, bottom line. Not gods.

edit on 18-8-2012 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

yes the bottom line is that, but if there is a bottom line there is also a higher line. I like the honesty of the bottom line and have no problem with that, but.... is that all we are???? No is the only real answer I get back. Perhaps not gods but much more, yes indeed. I like the word pure potential! the result may not be pure but as potential we have created so many amazing things that no animal has yet. So Darwin gets lost like a leaf in the wind when we use our potential.

and then came language.

When you guys talk about the ego, do you mean ego (singular) or do you mean egos (plural)?

Do you consider the personality as part of the ego(s) or something seperate, or created by ego(s)?

Regards

reply to post by ancientthunder


I'm not quite sure what you mean by ego. I've experienced three different ways of mystical ego-death. Well, four. I've eaten God and have in turn been eaten by God. I've been taken out of myself and united with God. And my body has been a vehicle for the Christ, sort of like John Sheridan when he carried a "piece" of Ambassador Kosh in him, for all you B5 fans.

But of course with death comes rebirth. The experience of egolessness is temporary. The ego is born from ashes, so to speak, like a Phoenix. Your identity returns. Your focal point of awareness isn't gone but your sense of "I"-ness, of who you are, is utterly obliterated and put back together. That's why the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ is the perfect mystical allegory.

When that happens to an ego-self it transforms it. But its still reborn human of course, and there is a human personality but it has gone through a kind of death and rebirth in a mystical context and this in a nutshell is the basis for the various mystical techniques that induce ego-death or make the circumstances favorable for it. For instance meditation and entheogens and fasting.

Changing the ego in a mystical context is a mystical experience in the classical sense. So conquering the ego is not necessarily a matter of controlling your arrogance or pride or any other vice or personality trait. It's a matter of having the right mystical experience in the right context with the right intention and in a proper and supportive environment in a responcible way. Transpersonal psychology studys these altered states of trans-personal consciousness.

So when people talk about killing the ego and whatnot and then they wonder how a person can function like that without being a robot or a hypocrite its because they don't realize that the ego is reborn and transformed, sort of like Thomas Anderson losing his sense of identity, his reality, his paradigm - to be reborn as Neo.

People would be surprised how many movies allegorize the mystical initiation process of ego-death and rebirth. Ever since George Lucas made it known that he used The Hero with a Thousand Faces to make Star Wars, Hollywood has been using Joseph Campbell to make movies that use the monomyth formula as the skeletal structure. Its a very influencial book but few people have read it. Hollywood probably likes it that way. People think its conspiracy that they are seeing in the subtext of movies again and again. It's not. It's Hollywood using Joseph Campbell and the monomyth formula, again and again, to write screenplays.

Anyway, so I guess I just wonder what you mean by ego.

reply to post by BlueMule
All I can say is thanks for your time in clearing up and explaining what the ego is in the mystical sense. there is much room for confusion depending what rung of the ladder you are working on. I agree that the ego cannot be destroyed but only transformed. the most important part for me is to know that you are not entirely the ego, only that is a part of yourself.Once this is known transformation can easily occur and more than likey will. If the ego is more like ice and carved in a certain way the other part of ourself is like water. So the ice will change. as an old ego used to say, "be as water my friend"