Reinvigorating the Debate forum

The staff has seen a honest effort by some members to try and get the Debate Forum up and running again as a viable forum on ATS. For a long time, it was an active forum with usually several debates happening at the same time. We even had several tournaments every year.

The last few years though, the forum has slid in popularity and use and the staff has been lax in promoting it. We've decided to change that, or at least make an attempt to turn it back into a vibrant forum once again. There are many reasons for it to have slid; it was an awful lot of work to keep up with, it takes a serious commitment of about a week or so to hold a full debate and not many are willing to commit that much time, finding judges that could take the time to read the debates and judge them and so on.

So in an effort to simplify things some, we have come up with a new set of guidelines( which are flexible and will evolve as the need arises).

Some of the changes are as follows...

Debates will now be three posts in total. One post to open and define your argument and two posts for the body of the debate.

Fighters will be able to start and run a debate although all topics have to be run through a staff member in the Debate forum before being posted. Also, a fighter run debate must have a staff member as one of the judges.

Judging will be done by two main judges with a third needed only for a tie breaker. Judges can be known or anonymous at the debate hosts discretion.

Character counts will remain the same for the moment. I believe they are 5000 characters per post. That's not to say you need to use every character in each post.

To gain fighter status, you must be a member in good standing and have either 200 posts or 6 months membership, which ever happens second. That is to say, if someone joins ATS and racks up 200 posts in a week, chances are they won't be given fighter status. However, exceptions can be made on a case by case basis. To have fighter status, pm me and ask. The forum isn't meant to be exclusive but as with any special access forum, the criteria is meant for those who gain to use it and to keep it a higher standard is expected while posting in the forum.

The next tournament, which isn't going to be held anytime soon, will be limited to 8 fighters to hopefully prevent the dropouts, forfeits and no shows that has plagued the Debate tournaments in the past. That number may be expanded but for now, that is the number.


That's it for now. As I said, these guidelines may change over time as the need arises but that's a start.

The debate forum is a good way to hone posting and research skills and it is free from distractions during the debate itself.

Glad to see that the debate forum may get a boost. I think that Druid42 deserves a spot of credit. It seemed he was sort of the force behind keeping the thing going. Add Beezer to that as well. I'm not familiar with many of the others that participate but thanks are in order there too.

I think I would like to participate at some point in the future. I suppose I made a rather uninformed and snotty thread awhile back about the whole thing, thinking that it seemed somehow elitist. My fault, I should have asked questions in a more appropriate manner.

I used to really dig the debates back in the day, thought they were always a good read and I do appreciate the structure and politeness being fostered at the moment.

reply to post by Domo1


Well, the final issue has been resolved, and that is who to u2u for fighter status. I expect your first debate to be with me, so go get your fighter status. There are a few more small things to clarify, little technical points, but......

....woohoo! We are back in action!

(Thanks for the bump!)

reply to post by GAOTU789


Questions:

Debates will now be three posts in total. One post to open and define your argument and two posts for the body of the debate.

Can you PLEASE, PLEASE edit that? We NEED FOUR posts. One open, two body, one closing. I understand the reduction in posting, things WILL be much more streamlined, but you HONESTLY can't nix the closing. You can't nix one body post, either, because then it's just open, statement, and close. For people to hone their skills a bit more, and learn the rigors of debate, a proper format needs followed. Please, people need to learn the close is just as important in a debate as the opening and body.

It'll still speed things up. 2 IS better for the body. 3 stretches it.

although all topics have to be run through a staff member in the Debate forum before being posted. Also, a fighter run debate must have a staff member as one of the judges.

Bold mine. Who are the staff members to PM? Heff and Gao? Give us a list of acceptable mods to bug. I'd think tenth would also be a good candidate. I see tenth everywhere, the same with Heff, so are you saying we can u2u them when we set up a new debate? Then, just to clarify, "a fighter run debate must have a staff member as a judge", and that COULD mean that the staff member mentioned is always then the "tie-breaker", and would probably be the third judge, to settle the debate, and pick a winner, should members be grid-locked. That would be a solid recourse all could agree to, to know we always had a staff member close by to solve such a dispute. That's also not saying that a staff member wouldn't volunteer to be a judge, and in that case, I'd love to read the thoughts of my peers, and it'd be an honor to listen to the remarks of a mod.

WE are on a new start here, let's capitalize on it, and hone out the rules.

It seems there needs to be a new thread, for newer debate forum members. You put this in BBQ, and many, many members read this forum. However, this info isn't sticked in the Debate Forum yet, and we need a spot for newly joined debate members to hash out debates in.

Get "Fighter" status first!

reply to post by Domo1


Well, the final issue has been resolved, and that is who to u2u for fighter status. I expect your first debate to be with me, so go get your fighter status. There are a few more small things to clarify, little technical points, but......

....woohoo! We are back in action!

(Thanks for the bump!)

Originally posted by Domo1
Glad to see that the debate forum may get a boost. I think that Druid42 deserves a spot of credit. It seemed he was sort of the force behind keeping the thing going. Add Beezer to that as well. I'm not familiar with many of the others that participate but thanks are in order there too.

I think I would like to participate at some point in the future. I suppose I made a rather uninformed and snotty thread awhile back about the whole thing, thinking that it seemed somehow elitist. My fault, I should have asked questions in a more appropriate manner.

I used to really dig the debates back in the day, thought they were always a good read and I do appreciate the structure and politeness being fostered at the moment.

Domo, your thread preipitated some of this. So it's a good thing!

Look forward to seeing you get that hange so you an join us! (Kinda sounds "attak of the body snathers when put that way)

reply to post by GAOTU789


Wht are your thoughts to the Blind Debate?
We have one currently going on. Where the fighter who run it, picks the topic and the pro/con sides as well. It's been fun.

To add, would like to see 4 posts as well. One open, two body, one close.

And a cheers to Druid for fightng for this forum!

Originally posted by Druid42


Questions:

Debates will now be three posts in total. One post to open and define your argument and two posts for the body of the debate.

Can you PLEASE, PLEASE edit that? We NEED FOUR posts. One open, two body, one closing. I understand the reduction in posting, things WILL be much more streamlined, but you HONESTLY can't nix the closing. You can't nix one body post, either, because then it's just open, statement, and close. For people to hone their skills a bit more, and learn the rigors of debate, a proper format needs followed. Please, people need to learn the close is just as important in a debate as the opening and body.

It'll still speed things up. 2 IS better for the body. 3 stretches it.

That is flexible. The reason for it is two fold. One it will speed up the debates some. The older format of 5 posts could drag a debate out a week or more, especially if both fighters asked for an extension. That's a lot of time to commit. Let the staff talk about it and we'll see. For right now though, it is going to be three posts.

although all topics have to be run through a staff member in the Debate forum before being posted. Also, a fighter run debate must have a staff member as one of the judges.

Bold mine. Who are the staff members to PM? Heff and Gao? Give us a list of acceptable mods to bug. I'd think tenth would also be a good candidate. I see tenth everywhere, the same with Heff, so are you saying we can u2u them when we set up a new debate?

We'll have a list of staff you can pm to get approval for the debate. Right now, and this again is flexible, some may come and go as their time permits, it is myself, Hefficide, Skyfloating, Semperfortis, xpert11, and tothetenthpower. Any of those will do.

Then, just to clarify, "a fighter run debate must have a staff member as a judge", and that COULD mean that the staff member mentioned is always then the "tie-breaker", and would probably be the third judge, to settle the debate, and pick a winner, should members be grid-locked. That would be a solid recourse all could agree to, to know we always had a staff member close by to solve such a dispute. That's also not saying that a staff member wouldn't volunteer to be a judge, and in that case, I'd love to read the thoughts of my peers, and it'd be an honor to listen to the remarks of a mod.

Yes, we would prefer that the staff be the tie breaker only but most of us will be available to be a judge if it is needed. That is up to the debate moderator(thread starter) and time availability. One of us will be available though, that is certain.

It seems there needs to be a new thread, for newer debate forum members. You put this in BBQ, and many, many members read this forum. However, this info isn't sticked in the Debate Forum yet, and we need a spot for newly joined debate members to hash out debates in.

One of us will be putting up a new guideline thread in the debate forum, most likely a copy of this. It can be used for a myriad of things; rule clarification, asking for debates or whatnot.

new guideline thread in the debate forum, most likely a copy of this. It can be used for a myriad of things; rule clarification, asking for debates or whatnot.

Oops, made a catch-all thread thread already, linking back to here.

Also, MANY THANKS for the active mod list. Bug you (u2u) for "fighter" status, and any of the others for a debate approval.

reply to post by beezzer


I like the blind debates. I have done a couple and it's always interesting to get a topic you may know nothing about. Refines your researching skills, imo..

Speaking of debates, I think myself and Skyfloating are going to hold one shortly. The topic hasn't been picked yet but both of us have done a few debates in the past and are itching to get back at it.

Should be fun.

reply to post by GAOTU789


Care to do a blind debate picked by a member? Namely, me, and you can have the opportunity to show off debating skills for the other members, as well as how the three topic post debate works?

Something to get us started in the 3 post debate style? (Whine whine whine whine. Got's to be 4 posts minimum!)

I don't want to whine too loudly, I haven't tried it, and it may be fun. It challenges us to re-think standards, and by changing our mindset, we are allowing ourselves to accept new ideas. It could be a good idea, so let's try it out, and see how it works......

Originally posted by Druid42
reply to post by GAOTU789

 

Care to do a blind debate picked by a member? Namely, me, and you can have the opportunity to show off debating skills for the other members, as well as how the three topic post debate works?

Something to get us started in the 3 post debate style? (Whine whine whine whine. Got's to be 4 posts minimum!)

I don't want to whine too loudly, I haven't tried it, and it may be fun. It challenges us to re-think standards, and by changing our mindset, we are allowing ourselves to accept new ideas. It could be a good idea, so let's try it out, and see how it works......

I'll volunteer to be "that" member.

*evil chuckle*

I'm also up for a blind debate. Anytime.

Can beez and I debate Starwars vs Star Trek, though? we were pretty stoked on that and it never got set up...

It's kind of a gaff, but it should be pretty fun! Especially considering how badly Yoda would wreck any of the Trekkies...

reply to post by GAOTU789


Could I make a suggestion? I think it would be interesting to do debates in series. For instance newer members to the debates would be able to pick from a list and sign up for debates, maybe even which side they wish to represent. People more familiar could choose the debate, but they could be put on either side of it. People with the most experience could do the blind debates. Maybe every week a few from each category could debate. The more tenured members having more of a surprise. If a newer person chooses something easy to defend and there are no takers, a more seasoned vet could argue the more difficult, uh, argument.

I think one of the reasons the debate forum may have become unpopular is that people are scared to get thrust into the spotlight. Giving it three tiers would sort of allow a member to dip their toe in first. Then as they get more accustomed and serious, move up the ranks when they feel comfortable.

May be a bit of a pain, and too much. Just a thought.

reply to post by beezzer


No, no, no. I want to be the one.

However, you are more bunny evil thinking than I am, and due to your fluffiness, and my support, I change my opinion to you being the (possible) "MODERATOR vs MODERATOR debate EXAMPLE" thread host. C'mon, the mods are tough. You can create something easy enough for them, aye?

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
I'm also up for a blind debate. Anytime.

Can beez and I debate Starwars vs Star Trek, though? we were pretty stoked on that and it never got set up...

It's kind of a gaff, but it should be pretty fun! Especially considering how badly Yoda would wreck any of the Trekkies...

Oh no you di'int!

reply to post by Druid42


Meh... People are only scared of mods because they get the fancy title and have sweet avatars. they are still just as handicapable as the rest of us lowly members... Just don't piss em moff because they can ban you!

Originally posted by Druid42
reply to post by beezzer

 

No, no, no. I want to be the one.

However, you are more bunny evil thinking than I am, and due to your fluffiness, and my support, I change my opinion to you being the (possible) "MODERATOR vs MODERATOR debate EXAMPLE" thread host. C'mon, the mods are tough. You can create something easy enough for them, aye?

Oh it'd be nothing but happiness and carrots.

reply to post by beezzer


Oh, yes,I did!

I'm pretty certain Qui Gon Jin could beat the crap out of J. L. Picard, too!

Snap, snap, mmmmmmhmmmmm.