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Are these Chemtrails?

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posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 

Your reasoning skills are so much better than anyone else on here.Good job and great post.lol




posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by jtap66
No. Those are contrails. Chemtrails don't exist.


Is the confirmation that chemtrails do exist, the lack of contrails left behind craft at similar altitudes to those leaving them?

Sat in my yard one day just to observe jet flybys. I live in the NYC metro area so there's plenty of air traffic from the many airports. I witnessed high altitude flights leaving sustained trails and others with a similar heading, leaving nothing at all. As a matter of fact, the trails that were being left by craft were all from craft heading in the same direction. I found that to be interesting. What was further interesting was seeing a jet fly through the trail, heading in a different direction, yet leaving nothing behind. I know nothing about aeronautics or atmospheric science, but this didn't seem to be logical.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by luxordelphi
 

What is an "outrageously persistent contrail?"


Further, if contrail formation doesn't meet historically set precedents, the science is changed to 'include' these exceptions.
It is? What exceptions?



It is similar to this never-ending debate...flagrant and relentless bickering on both sides,.and I don't recall too many converts to either viewpoint. It's the yin and yang!



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by Bilk22

Originally posted by jtap66
No. Those are contrails. Chemtrails don't exist.


Is the confirmation that chemtrails do exist, the lack of contrails left behind craft at similar altitudes to those leaving them?

Sat in my yard one day just to observe jet flybys. I live in the NYC metro area so there's plenty of air traffic from the many airports. I witnessed high altitude flights leaving sustained trails and others with a similar heading, leaving nothing at all. As a matter of fact, the trails that were being left by craft were all from craft heading in the same direction. I found that to be interesting. What was further interesting was seeing a jet fly through the trail, heading in a different direction, yet leaving nothing behind. I know nothing about aeronautics or atmospheric science, but this didn't seem to be logical.


No, they were likely at different altitudes, see:

contrailscience.com...



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by Bilk22

Originally posted by jtap66
No. Those are contrails. Chemtrails don't exist.


Is the confirmation that chemtrails do exist, the lack of contrails left behind craft at similar altitudes to those leaving them?

Sat in my yard one day just to observe jet flybys. I live in the NYC metro area so there's plenty of air traffic from the many airports. I witnessed high altitude flights leaving sustained trails and others with a similar heading, leaving nothing at all. As a matter of fact, the trails that were being left by craft were all from craft heading in the same direction. I found that to be interesting. What was further interesting was seeing a jet fly through the trail, heading in a different direction, yet leaving nothing behind. I know nothing about aeronautics or atmospheric science, but this didn't seem to be logical.


No, they were likely at different altitudes, see:

contrailscience.com...


Did you notice I said I saw jets fly through the trails and didn't leave any contrail? I thought I mentioned that?



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by elrem48
It is similar to this never-ending debate...flagrant and relentless bickering on both sides,.and I don't recall too many converts to either viewpoint. It's the yin and yang!


Except one side is backed by science and history, and the other is not.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 05:50 PM
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reply to post by elrem48
 





Yes they look like "chemtrails,"


What do "Chemtrails" look like?




posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by elrem48
It is similar to this never-ending debate...flagrant and relentless bickering on both sides,.and I don't recall too many converts to either viewpoint. It's the yin and yang!


Except one side is backed by science and history, and the other is not.


I believe it will be within the next 20 years...just give it some time...contrails (as you probably know) are listed as a category of clouds. www.crh.noaa.gov...



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by elrem48
 





Yes they look like "chemtrails,"


What do "Chemtrails" look like?



For ME they are the likes of something I never grew up seeing in my sky....which entails quite a few decades. I may not give the answer you are looking for, but I DO know when I'm being baited by someone who THINKS he's a smartass!



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by elrem48

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by elrem48
 





Yes they look like "chemtrails,"


What do "Chemtrails" look like?



For ME they are the likes of something I never grew up seeing in my sky....which entails quite a few decades. I may not give the answer you are looking for, but I DO know when I'm being baited by someone who THINKS he's a smartass!


Yeah same here. Have a few decades under my belt too LOL I remember as a kid, seeing them was something special and we used to make a big deal about them. Not much any more. Actually see them at much lower altitudes than I remember too.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:25 PM
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reply to post by Bilk22
 


Have a few decades under my belt too LOL I remember as a kid, seeing them was something special and we used to make a big deal about them. Not much any more. Actually see them at much lower altitudes than I remember too.

I have more than a few decades but I've learned that a lot of my childhood memories have little to do with reality.

You know there are more planes flying at the altitudes which produce contrails than there were 30 years ago, right?



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by Bilk22

Did you notice I said I saw jets fly through the trails and didn't leave any contrail? I thought I mentioned that?


That could be purely down to different engine types. See following and scroll down to the Airbus (Turbofan) and the older Boeing (Turbojet). Same altitude and the Boeing isn't producing contrails.

elib.dlr.de...

Variations in height can also be a factor. See following video showing B-17s during WW2 climbing and producing contrails. Yes even propellor driven aircraft can produce them! Some chemtrail believers will still argue blind that they can't!

Watch from 14:00. Note at 14:51 some of the B-17s producing intermittent contrails. Note at 14:54 you can see a B-17 at a lower height and not producing contrails.



Such is the 'threat' of the WW2 contrail footage that the desperate die-hards can only resort to claims of fakery and manipulation. See the ludicrous Tanker Enemy links. Thousands of WW2 Aircrew Veterans are still alive and can refute his non-sense. I feel sorry for the younger generations stumbling on this 'chemtrail non-sense' and sucked into his money making scam.

www.youtube.com...

Click on the following and follow the internal link for the English subtitled version.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Bilk22
 


Have a few decades under my belt too LOL I remember as a kid, seeing them was something special and we used to make a big deal about them. Not much any more. Actually see them at much lower altitudes than I remember too.

I have more than a few decades but I've learned that a lot of my childhood memories have little to do with reality.

You know there are more planes flying at the altitudes which produce contrails than there were 30 years ago, right?
Yeah even more than 40 years ago. So what? As I stated in my prior post, the observations I made the other day seem to be conflicting with the idea that they aren't spraying anything. I witnessed a jet fly through the trail of another without leaving one. This happened within a few minutes. I also remember from childhood that in order to see such a wondrous site, for a kid, it had to be a a really high elevation. Not so much any more. And, for a planet that's "warming, it's a wonder that we see them at the elevations we do.
edit on 18-8-2012 by Bilk22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by tommyjo

Originally posted by Bilk22

Did you notice I said I saw jets fly through the trails and didn't leave any contrail? I thought I mentioned that?


That could be purely down to different engine types. See following and scroll down to the Airbus (Turbofan) and the older Boeing (Turbojet). Same altitude and the Boeing isn't producing contrails.

elib.dlr.de...

Variations in height can also be a factor. See following video showing B-17s during WW2 climbing and producing contrails. Yes even propellor driven aircraft can produce them! Some chemtrail believers will still argue blind that they can't!

Watch from 14:00. Note at 14:51 some of the B-17s producing intermittent contrails. Note at 14:54 you can see a B-17 at a lower height and not producing contrails.



Such is the 'threat' of the WW2 contrail footage that the desperate die-hards can only resort to claims of fakery and manipulation. See the ludicrous Tanker Enemy links. Thousands of WW2 Aircrew Veterans are still alive and can refute his non-sense. I feel sorry for the younger generations stumbling on this 'chemtrail non-sense' and sucked into his money making scam.

www.youtube.com...

Click on the following and follow the internal link for the English subtitled version.

www.youtube.com...


Why use examples from craft that's not been flying for half a century? Most all modern commercial aircraft use turbofan engines, don't they? They all produce heat as a byproduct. Why would one at the same elevation, leave a trail and the other not?



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by Bilk22
 


I witnessed a jet fly through the trail of another without leaving one.

How do you know it flew through the trail? Looks can be very deceiving when you are looking at something miles above you with no frame of reference.


I also remember from childhood that in order to see such a wondrous site, for a kid, was it had to be a a really high elevation. Not so much any more.
As I said, childhood memories are not the most reliable. But I haven't seen contrails forming much lower than about 30,000 feet. How are you determining the altitude?


And, for a planet that's "warming, it's a wonder that we see them at the elevations we do.
How are you determining the altitude? Temperatures in the upper troposphere are still very cold.

edit on 8/18/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Bilk22
 


I witnessed a jet fly through the trail of another without leaving one.

How do you know it flew through the trail? Looks can be very deceiving when you are looking at something miles above you with no frame of reference.


I also remember from childhood that in order to see such a wondrous site, for a kid, was it had to be a a really high elevation. Not so much any more.
As I said, childhood memories are not the most reliable. But I haven't seen contrails forming much lower than about 30,000 feet. How are you determining the altitude?


And, for a planet that's "warming, it's a wonder that we see them at the elevations we do.
How are you determining the altitude? Temperatures in the upper troposphere are still very cold.

edit on 8/18/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)


How I know is it displaced the trail. Observational evidence.

I should similarly ask, how do you know what 30k feet is from the ground?
edit on 18-8-2012 by Bilk22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by Bilk22
 

Different engine types perhaps.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 8/18/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:56 PM
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chemtrails (if you believe in such nonsense) would look exactly like contrails.
so isn't it pointless to post pic's?



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by Kino321
chemtrails (if you believe in such nonsense) would look exactly like contrails.
so isn't it pointless to post pic's?
I agree. testing is the only way to determine what's going on up there.

heading to dinner, but I'll try to post independent tests done by individuals and agencies alike.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by Bilk22
I also remember from childhood that in order to see such a wondrous site, for a kid, was it had to be a a really high elevation. Not so much any more. And, for a planet that's "warming, it's a wonder that we see them at the elevations we do.


Really. So you are claiming that aircraft are now producing contrails at a much lower height? What height do you think the aircraft that you seeing are flying at? Are you saying that they are down at 10,000 feet or lower?

I ask that because there are some extremely misleading videos out there by the die-hard peddlers. They wan't to promote this myth of 'chemtrail sprayers' down at 6,000 feet.

These two videos show the depths that the die-hards will go to. Yes they actually believe that that the aircraft are at 6,000 feet. They can't even work out basic perspective! They can't even be honest and identify the type of aircraft in the second video. No it isn't a C-17 Globemaster but they have to do this in order to claim that is is a 'military operation' . The aircraft is actually a civilian charter Antonov 124. The Antonov is the worlds second largest aircraft and dwarfs the C-17.








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