US intends to chase Assange, cables show

Originally posted by djyorkie
A lot of this is already getting covered in another thread.
US intends to chase assange topic can easily be covered in the topic:
britain threatens to storm equador embassy to get assange
After all, it has already been discussed about who and why they are doing this.
Why another assange thread?
It just makes things messy and harder to follow.
I will be sticking to the original thread, while the same things all get repeated in here

Well they are two different subjects... the original thread you linked is now off topic.. it was about Britain storming the embassy, which didn't happen.. it's become a monstrously large thread that has swayed from it's original topic to cover other things.. the title is the key.. this one so far is on topic.. about US's intentions regarding Assange.. If I were searching and I saw these two threads and was interested in Britain swarming the embassy I'd click that.. if I wasn't and was more interested in the US's options.. I'd click this one =) .. it's organized that way..

If the other thread were titled "All things related to Julian Assange" I'd agree with you

reply to post by miniatus


Very frustrating, as the britain going into the embassy is still on topic, as britains warning that they are intending to go in still stands. They just have not yet given official 7 day notice of that intention. It could still come at any time.
In the meantime in that thread, the discussion on americas stance has taken place, as has rothschild link, oh, and the law. All being covered.
I jyst cant understand why we cant have 1 single assange thread, for current discussion, instead of this bs of startibg threads to gain stars etc.
Drives me nuts.

Originally posted by djyorkie
reply to post by miniatus

 

Very frustrating, as the britain going into the embassy is still on topic, as britains warning that they are intending to go in still stands. They just have not yet given official 7 day notice of that intention. It could still come at any time.
In the meantime in that thread, the discussion on americas stance has taken place, as has rothschild link, oh, and the law. All being covered.
I jyst cant understand why we cant have 1 single assange thread, for current discussion, instead of this bs of startibg threads to gain stars etc.
Drives me nuts.

I don't view it as frustrating... yes Britain storming the embassy is still on topic .. and I participated in both threads.. but both threads are for different subjects..

That thread is about UK and apprehending Assange ... this thread is about the US and their chances of having him extradited to this country... As long as the threads stay on topic then I can see a very valid reason for having two ..

One thread on assange might be too noisy for me ... it would go into every possible direction .. far to broad for a single thread... that is just my opinion... I don't like threads that have 4 posts a minute, it's hard to stay on track .. people end up repeating things because they had no idea someone posted the same thing before them... you spend all your time catching up, writing a post and then find out someone beat you to the point.

but as I mentioned in the other thread.. Britain will NOT go in .. they didn't say they intended to either.. they merely told Ecuador they could... them entering would be a disaster for them and every other country on the planet because it sets a dangerous precedent.. it would also damage their ties with Ecuador, whom they get oil from..

I firmly believe UK is happy to let Assange sweat it out inside that little building for as long as he wants.. without seeing the light of day, taking a walk or visiting friends/family

Originally posted by onethatisrampant
Any wagers Ecuador gets a visit from some economic hitmen, an earthquake perhaps, some type of mere coincidence?

A coup...

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by WildWorld
If he is guilty of espionage for putting the info on the internet wouldn't anyone else who reported on the showed the leaked cables in the media also be guilty of the same crime?
I honestly have no idea since I haven't really followed this.

edit on 17-8-2012 by WildWorld because: (no reason given)

I would think not ...

Leaking the information to the public is one thing.. reporting on the leak is another...

I didn't explain what I meant correctly. What about a news agency who actually showed the documents in print or on television or posted them on their website.
I'm trying to think of something similar for comparison but can only come up with child pornography, sorry. Say someone sends it to someone else and that person posts it publicly online on an anti-pornography website to show others that it's happening. The first person who sent it is charged. The person who first made it public is charged. The media covers the story and reposts the pictures along with their story. Wouldnt the media also be guilty of posting child pornography?
I know espionage and child abuse are no where near the same thing I just don't have a better example.

Originally posted by miniatus
The US wants Assange, there is no secret there..

Yet no attempts have been made to charge / request extradition.

Originally posted by miniatus
However.. he simply CANNOT be extradited to the USA ... Sweden, by law, cannot send him to the US even if the US wants him.. which we all know they do ..

By law, Sweden cannot extradite someone to a country where they risk death... treason comes with a death penalty ... Sweden has already announced they cannot and would not extradite him to the US for that reason..

FFS.. Is it to much to ask that people learn how this works before making claims that are false? Assange is NOT a US citizen and therefore CANNOT be charged with treason in the United States. Assange, in case people missed this part, is Australian - NOT American.

Treason - 18 USC 2381

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

Key part - Owing allegiance to the United States.

Originally posted by miniatus
Sweden said they wouldn't/couldn't .. as recently as this week..

When Ecquador asked about extradition to the US Sweden and the UK were requested to not comply with extradition. Both Sweden and the UK could not answer that question. If you have a link to them stating they would not can you l;ink it please I would like to read about it.

Originally posted by miniatus
The ONLY way Assange could be extradited is if the USA guaranteed that Assange would not be given a death sentence.... in that case, it's possible..

Assange faces no charges as it is from the US. If he did none of those possible crimes have death penalty as a result.

Originally posted by miniatus
But I look for Ecuador to make assange a citizen and then a diplomat, granting him immunity abroad.

edit on 8/17/2012 by miniatus because: (no reason given)

Again I wish people would learn before making claims that are impossible. Please read the 1961 convention on Diplomatic relations. Assange cannot be made an ambassador or any other type of diplomat. Assange cannot be granted diplomatic immunity. Why?

Because in order to do so the country he would be a "diplomat" to has to agree to it. Thats not going to happen in the UK. If it were as easy as you and others think then why has it not occured yet? Thats right because it cant. Assange can go the Asylum route, which he did, which means nothing in the long run, because the moment he steps foot outside his location he will be arrested.

Why do people continually insist on repeating false claims and lies?
Assange and his lawyers have made these claimes with nothing to support them. Why? Because they hope to play on the emotions / ignornace of people who are blindly supporting him.

Claims by Assange and his Legal team -
* - Assange will be placed in Gitmo - FALSE Gitmo is a military installation and Assange is not subject to it.
* - Assange will be charged with treason - FALSE - He is not a US citizen and therefore cannot be charged with treason.
* - Assange will face the death penalty - FALSE - nothing he can be charged with has that as an option.
* - Assange would face a military tribunal - FALSE - If charges ever come it would be in Federal court, not military.

Seriously... The best way to help him out would be to not repeat the constant misinformation and lies he puts out. For a person who hangs his hat on "information" and "transparency" he certainly has no issues abandoning that principle when it suits him.

All of this info is available to anyone who bothers to do the reseach instead of just taking what he says as gospel.

Upon review, this does appear to be a separate issue and will remain open.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by djyorkie
reply to post by miniatus

 

I jyst cant understand why we cant have 1 single assange thread, for current discussion, instead of this bs of startibg threads to gain stars etc.
Drives me nuts.

What makes you think i am starting threads just to gain stars? I do not care for stars. I viewed this subject (US - Assange extradition and new evidence) as alternative to that of Britain storming the Embassy and as such, decided to create a new thread.

Don't get so grumpy

Originally posted by Xcathdra
Assange faces no charges as it is from the US. If he did none of those possible crimes have death penalty as a result.

That isn't true, esponioage act comes with a death penalty.. and he absolutely could be charged.. but I'm fully aware no official charges have been levied by the US, I've said that...

Originally posted by Xcathdra
Again I wish people would learn before making claims that are impossible. Please read the 1961 convention on Diplomatic relations. Assange cannot be made an ambassador or any other type of diplomat. Assange cannot be granted diplomatic immunity. Why?

I already corrected myself.. but thank you for correcting me again =) I'm aware of this, though I wasn't when I first said it.. if you'd read on you'd see where I corrected.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
When Ecquador asked about extradition to the US Sweden and the UK were requested to not comply with extradition. Both Sweden and the UK could not answer that question. If you have a link to them stating they would not can you l;ink it please I would like to read about it.

Surely .. a quote from the Swedish Foreign Ministry on the topic of Assange...

articles.cnn.com...

Sweden does not extradite individuals who risk facing the death penalty

Originally posted by Xcathdra
Claims by Assange and his Legal team -
* - Assange will be placed in Gitmo - FALSE Gitmo is a military installation and Assange is not subject to it.
* - Assange will be charged with treason - FALSE - He is not a US citizen and therefore cannot be charged with treason.
* - Assange will face the death penalty - FALSE - nothing he can be charged with has that as an option.
* - Assange would face a military tribunal - FALSE - If charges ever come it would be in Federal court, not military.

Point 1 - Agreed, he has to be extradited to the US before that could happen, and that won't happen.
Point 2 - Partially Agreed, he can't be charged with treason.. I already corrected that.. Espionage however would happen.
Point 3 - Disagreed entirely - IF extradited, and IF charged under the espionage act he absolutely would face a possible death penalty.
Point 4 - I'm on the fence there.

Anything else?

Originally posted by daaskapital

Originally posted by djyorkie
reply to post by miniatus

 

I jyst cant understand why we cant have 1 single assange thread, for current discussion, instead of this bs of startibg threads to gain stars etc.
Drives me nuts.

What makes you think i am starting threads just to gain stars? I do not care for stars. I viewed this subject (US - Assange extradition and new evidence) as alternative to that of Britain storming the Embassy and as such, decided to create a new thread.

Don't get so grumpy

edit on 17-8-2012 by daaskapital because: eta

The mods have made their decision anyway, and I absolutely agree.. it's a separate thread and a separate topic.. this thread has every right to exist on it's own .. imagine if all things UFO were under one thread, all things political had it's own thread... I don't want to live in that world ;-) so lets move on, this debate about threads is entirely off topic anyway =)

This is just another case of the USA thinking that they are Higher and Mighter than the rest of us here on this planet.

They have no right to chase Assange.
If anything the world has the right to chase America's leaders for bringing this world into constant war and its murder of innocents.

America and Americans kill more innocent lives on a daily bases in its War On Freedom( oops i meant) War Of Freedom than any one of the cables that Assange and Wikileaks have released.

Australia and its gutless leader should have been the one granting Asylum to Assange. (We grant enough Illegal immigrants this right).
Our Aussie Government should have the balls to stand up to the USA and have told them to shut the F*** Up and F**k Off when it come's to Assange.

I don't want to hear what Sweden would or wouldn't do according to law.

They sent people for CIA rendition to be tortured.


All these words. Just words. Look at the actions - "by their fruit ye shall know'

It's true politically in these cases. * US - bully *AU - lapdog that would sell its own citizens out/cuddly with US
*UK smart poodle up on the couch
Sweden - complicit in torture
Ecaudor - courageous *Assange - too powerful for ANYONE's good.

Fix
Everyone grow a set
More journalists willing to do hard journalism - a few more wikileaks like organizations too maybe?
Sweden - go to UK and question Assange there/ charge him already if it's going to happen
US - lay off the bullcrap gotchas, give Manning his trial already, grow up - we got embarrassed by a usb drive. Do better

Whole thing is really much more juvenile than it is worthy of all this international strife and maneuvering.

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by WildWorld

Originally posted by miniatus
The US wants Assange, there is no secret there..

However.. he simply CANNOT be extradited to the USA ... Sweden, by law, cannot send him to the US even if the US wants him.. which we all know they do ..

By law, Sweden cannot extradite someone to a country where they risk death... treason comes with a death penalty ... Sweden has already announced they cannot and would not extradite him to the US for that reason..

Sweden said they wouldn't/couldn't .. as recently as this week..

The ONLY way Assange could be extradited is if the USA guaranteed that Assange would not be given a death sentence.... in that case, it's possible..
But I look for Ecuador to make assange a citizen and then a diplomat, granting him immunity abroad.

edit on 8/17/2012 by miniatus because: (no reason given)

Assange didn't commit treason.

Wrong term... espionage .. it also carries the death penalty and the US has accused him of it.

He didn't commit espionage either. Other people did, and shared their information with him and others. Espionage is an active action. Being a recipient of information is not.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
Treason - 18 USC 2381

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

Key part - Owing allegiance to the United States.

I'm sure we'll soon enough find out that the entire world owes an allegiance to the United States. According to the United States. But I digress...

Claims by Assange and his Legal team -
* - Assange will be placed in Gitmo - FALSE Gitmo is a military installation and Assange is not subject to it.

That has actually never stopped the US of A previously.

Then again, if not Gitmo, then there are many, many other installations that might be even more suitable for the purpose.

reply to post by miniatus


Your arguement for charging Assange is a load of BS.
The only thing he did was pass on and print what are FACT.
All he did was pass on the FACT that Americas leaders ARE commiting crimes against the world in the so called war of freedom.

Maybe America's leaders should stop manipulating the World for it own greed, and maybe America's leaders should stop sending its Sheeple ( of which you are obviously one) to commit murderous acts upon this world with unlawful acts of wars and then trying to hide the fact that they commited such murderous acts.

This world needs people like Assange to stand up and show us all what it is that our governments get up to behind closed doors.



ETA.
The only thing Assange is guilty of was having unprotected sex with women that wanted to have sex with him.

Originally posted by miniatus
That isn't true, esponioage act comes with a death penalty.. and he absolutely could be charged.. but I'm fully aware no official charges have been levied by the US, I've said that...

18 USC 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

per count -

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

(g)If two or more persons conspire to violate any of the foregoing provisions of this section, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each of the parties to such conspiracy shall be subject to the punishment provided for the offense which is the object of such conspiracy.

Originally posted by miniatus
I already corrected myself.. but thank you for correcting me again =) I'm aware of this, though I wasn't when I first said it.. if you'd read on you'd see where I corrected.

My apologies.. I jumped the gun.

Originally posted by miniatus
Surely .. a quote from the Swedish Foreign Ministry on the topic of Assange...

articles.cnn.com...

Sweden does not extradite individuals who risk facing the death penalty

Any possible charges dont carry the death penalty.

Originally posted by miniatus
Point 1 - Agreed, he has to be extradited to the US before that could happen, and that won't happen.

Incorrect - Gitmo is a military facility used to house enemy combatents. Assange is not an enemy combatent, he was not captured on a battlefield, and he does not fall under military jurisidiction. So no, he cannot be sent to Gitmo.

Originally posted by miniatus
Point 2 - Partially Agreed, he can't be charged with treason.. I already corrected that.. Espionage however would happen.

Which is not punishible by death.

People seem to be confusing / misunderstanding the difference between Pvt. Manning, Assange and the charges. Pvt. Manning can face the death penalty because he is subject to the UCMJ. Assange is subject to US Federal Domestic Law, which does not allow the death penalty (should charges ever come).

Originally posted by miniatus
Point 3 - Disagreed entirely - IF extradited, and IF charged under the espionage act he absolutely would face a possible death penalty.

See Federal Statute on espionage and penalties a couple paragraphs above. UCMJ allows a death penalty, Federal Domestic law does not.

Originally posted by miniatus
Point 4 - I'm on the fence there.

Assange is not subject to the Military. He cannot be placed in front of a military tribunal.

Originally posted by miniatus
Anything else?

Read through and you tell me.

Originally posted by moniker
I'm sure we'll soon enough find out that the entire world owes an allegiance to the United States. According to the United States. But I digress...

Which has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Assange is not a US citizen and cannot be charged with treason.

Originally posted by miniatus
That has actually never stopped the US of A previously.

Actually it has.. Feel free to read through the Supreme Court rulings dealing with terror issues and whats in place.

Originally posted by miniatus
Then again, if not Gitmo, then there are many, many other installations that might be even more suitable for the purpose.

Incorrect... As much as I find it amusing when you guys substitute common sense with paranoia and falsehoods, its getting old.

Originally posted by miniatus
The US wants Assange, there is no secret there..

However.. he simply CANNOT be extradited to the USA ... Sweden, by law, cannot send him to the US even if the US wants him.. which we all know they do ..

By law, Sweden cannot extradite someone to a country where they risk death... treason comes with a death penalty ... Sweden has already announced they cannot and would not extradite him to the US for that reason..

Sweden said they wouldn't/couldn't .. as recently as this week...

Do you have a link to this? All week I have been seeing reports of Sweden refusing to make any guarantee that Assange would not be extradited to the USA.

This ties into reports that Sweden also refused to question Assange at the embassy, insisting that he be sent to them.

I'm confused about this. The USA seems to think they can extradite him. Sweden has refused to say that he WONT be extradited to the USA.

Death penalty or not, Assange has done nothing wrong. He published information given to him by someone with access to it who acted on their moral objections.

America claims to be all for freedom of the press, but Assange has done nothing more than what journalists are EXPECTED to do in any other media.

Perhaps it would be wise for Americans to consider why this man is so important, and why all other journalists in the USA are completely failing to uncover anything of note.

Originally posted by miniatus
By law, Sweden cannot extradite someone to a country where they risk death... treason comes with a death penalty ... Sweden has already announced they cannot and would not extradite him to the US for that reason..

Black Ops operation, at an Airport in Stockholm Sweden, to "snatch" a man in broad daylight, with weapons drawn ... comes to mind.

Sweden doesn't abide by any laws ...

Originally posted by detachedindividual
America claims to be all for freedom of the press, but Assange has done nothing more than what journalists are EXPECTED to do in any other media.

You got it half right. America is all for freedom of the press to report what the Government wants it to report. Just like in other civilised countries such as Russia, China and Italy.