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We are either irrelevant or a mistake

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posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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I didn't put this thought in a religious forum because even atheists claim that life is special (even more so because there isn't an afterlife).

If we take a grain of sand away from a beach, no would would care or even notice. If we own a bed sheet with one tiny flaw amidst the millions of stitches we would call this flaw a mistake.

Why would it be any different for us? Meaning, if life in the universe (and the potential for life) is as numerous as grains of sand on a beach, then we are irrelevant. The universe would not miss us if we (or indeed, our entire planet) suddenly disintegrated.

On the other hand, if the entire universe is gas, rock, and fire, with life growing only on this planet, then we are a mistake.

Thoughts?




posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 06:25 PM
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I'm not a mistake, everyone else is!



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 06:27 PM
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Why would we be a mistake?

That's pretty much creating a false dichotomy, either or.

We don't have have a special purpose to exist. We don't have to be a mistake. We are what we are, and what we are just is.

Nothing more.

And random chance doesn't have to be a bad thing. In science, many important discoveries come about from random chance.

For example, here is some food that were discovered by accident:

The potato chip was born when cook George Crum (yes, really his name!) tried to silence a persnickety customer who kept sending french fries back to the kitchen for being soggy; Popsicles were invented when Frank Epperson left a drink outside in the cold overnight; and ice cream cones were invented at the 1904 World's Fair in St. Louis.

So really, why does our existence have to have been a mistake?

A mistake is not a bad thing. It all depends on what you make of it.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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Couldn't agree more brother.

I think people can't deal with the reality of being insignificant, and that is why they can't accept this simple truth.

IMO it's for this reason people need to brainwash themselves into thinking there is an afterlife, a loving god, and that miracles and such do exist.

If more people realized how meaningless their life really was, we might finally be able to evolve as a species, til then we have to deal with senseless slaughtering and hypocritical ideologies that not even us rational minds can't escape.
edit on 8/16/2012 by raiders247 because: typo



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


I agree with pretty much everything you say. What are we but a speck?



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


I've spent my whole life wondering this. I don't have any answers either.
But over the past several years my outlook has dramatically changed, for the better.

I'm more optimistic these days, because I feel that there *is* something special about us *and* that grain of sand.
It is not an egotistical approach, either. As way of thinking, I've never prescribed to (I'd sooner think the opposite = nihilism)

A Grain of Sand

The above, is that very grain of sand.

So it is all relative, you see. If you look at what we know about our Universe, you'll find that it shares many similarities with the microscopic inner workings of our very bodies.

I think that everything is connected in some way, many (many) different frequencies vibrating on one or more level = the Universe.

The more rare life is (Such as Earth, the grain of sand suspended in a sun beam) --- the more precious it is. In my adopted opinion.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by raiders247
 


I think there is an afterlife but I don't want to go there if that makes sense?



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


The answer to your thread Title;

We really are irrelevant. We're defintely NOT a mistake.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Good last line of yours saying, "Thoughts?"

The answer you seek is in thoughts. More precisely, in consciousness. That is the key.

We can explain it to some degree, but early ways keep us from expressing it completely and most don't want to bother anyway.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


I must admit my own thoughts stray that way often!

When we consider all the genocide that has hapened over thousands of years, all the wars fought for no benefit other than to perpetuate the senseless waste of young lives in ever continuing conflict, all the deaths from plagues and diseases over the centuries and all the waste of lives through years of destitution, unemployment and starvation then it all just seems just as you say.

Humanity seems to just continue along this path!

Where are we going? Where is this all leading?

Human beings have to be born into this world to just suffer ever conscious of our own impending mortality; that even the lucky ones who live to old age must eventually die a painful death.

I see my own life as very hard to live. I wake every morning in a bad mood, having to live a dreary life with no opportunities atall, tortured by the colours of my imagination with no outlet other than the prison bars of reality that is dull and dreary.

Check out a poem by T.S Eliot "The Hollow Men":


"The Hollow Men
T. S. Eliot

Mistah Kurtz—he dead.

A penny for the Old Guy

I

We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats’ feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar

Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion;

Those who have crossed
With direct eyes, to death’s other Kingdom
Remember us—if at all—not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men
The stuffed men.

II

Eyes I dare not meet in dreams
In death’s dream kingdom
These do not appear:
There, the eyes are
Sunlight on a broken column
There, is a tree swinging
And voices are
In the wind’s singing
More distant and more solemn
Than a fading star.

Let me be no nearer
In death’s dream kingdom
Let me also wear
Such deliberate disguises
Rat’s coat, crowskin, crossed staves
In a field
Behaving as the wind behaves
No nearer—

Not that final meeting
In the twilight kingdom

III

This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man’s hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.

Is it like this
In death’s other kingdom
Waking alone
At the hour when we are
Trembling with tenderness
Lips that would kiss
Form prayers to broken stone.

IV

The eyes are not here
There are no eyes here
In this valley of dying stars
In this hollow valley
This broken jaw of our lost kingdoms

In this last of meeting places
We grope together
And avoid speech
Gathered on this beach of the tumid river

Sightless, unless
The eyes reappear
As the perpetual star
Multifoliate rose
Of death’s twilight kingdom
The hope only
Of empty men.

V

Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear
At five o’clock in the morning.

Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom

Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long

Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom

For Thine is
Life is
For Thine is the

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper."

That is how I feel.

I think that just about sums up the reality of human beings in a brutal universe. Creation appears to have no mercy and respect for human emotion and feeling, individually or collectively.

Indeed if our planet suddenly blew up to pieces the vast universe would not even notice.

Unless The Prophets are right of course and their is some eternal Kingdom and a resurrection. Even then we are told that the way is narrow and only a few will make it.

What is that word HOPE? Somebody tell me???


edit on 16-8-2012 by Revolution9 because: spelling

edit on 16-8-2012 by Revolution9 because: spelling - as if the universe cares about that!



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by hannah1234
reply to post by raiders247
 


I think there is an afterlife but I don't want to go there if that makes sense?


Perfect sense. When our bodies die the chemical influences on our brain no longer determine how we think. So, what's the point of this life if we no longer hold onto our humanness after we die?

And, after death if we DO hold on to what it means to be human, then we're just going to keep on existing and thinking exactly as we do now. And, judging by the way we treat each other, and how we take this planet for granted, that is not a good thing!



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 06:56 PM
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I think there is an afterlife but I don't want to go there if that makes sense?
reply to post by hannah1234
 


To each his own... I haven't found any reason to think there is an afterlife. But if there is I don't think we would have much of a say in who goes and who doesn't, much like this life...



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


This has been something on my mind lately too. I'm generally an atheist, though I tend to lean toward agnostic sometimes because I'm pretty open-minded.

I've not always been this way though. I was raised to be religious and shed those ideals from my life over the past decade or so. From what I've observed growing up in a fairly fanatical religious community, and talking to many folks of faith, is that there is a fundamental issue at stake in a lot of poeple thinking of humans as such a divine thing, but then turning right around and looking at all other life...as though it is just a slave or tool for us to use. Taking it further, I find the idea that the universe or even the earth for that matter being MADE for us to be quite arrogant.

Not long after getting my serious doubts about my own religoius beliefs, what I found was I quickly transitioned into the opposite mind of thinking....that EVERYTHING was meaningless, and I'm sure anyone here who has experienced this could probably verify the feeling. It took hold of me for a good couple of years, making me super depressed.

After a while though, I realized the relativity of things, and starting thinking that way instead. If you are trying to see the BIG PICTURE, yeah...you cannot derive much meaning from a bunch of balls of bright gas and rocks rotating around each other in seemingly random placement across thousands of galaxies, with some tiny little ants living on them.

But, and this is the KEY that most people are missing...the meaning of your life is what YOU must decide for yourself. If you feel your life is meaningless, the best thing to do is think about those around you who care about you, and do feel a real emotional impact when you are gone or missing. This is where people should be focusing more...instead of trying to frame it ALL and think that it ALL fits together somehow. Right now there is so little information we can only speculate anyway (which can be fun, but I'm not sure it should be taken too seriously).

So to clarify, I don't think people should stop wondering about the universe, I just think people need to stop and think how ridiculous it is to think all this life...all these animals, this planet, all the billions of stars.....that it was all CREATED just for us to use and explore.

I don't really buy that. It's far better to just focus on what you really are, what you're really capable of, recognize your strengths and weaknesses, and try to survive if you have good enough reasons to do so. At least, that's waht I try to do. And if I can learn some things and gain insight along the way, great! But at this point in my life I don't worry so much about a big sky daddy watching me or anything, but try to be a bit more practical.

I hope this helps anyone who might have these thoughts swishing around. They did for me for a very long time until I came to a nice equilibrium about it.
edit on 16-8-2012 by UnderStation because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


We are all connected on a much deeper level than any of us realize. Because you focus entirely on external senses in relating these ideas, you fail to factor into your equation that no matter how separate or random anything may seem, it happened for a reason.

You may scoff at this, but just think: everything is designed. Everything fails or succeeds because some law was either filled or unfulfilled. You must create a specific set of parameters to achieve a certain effect, and everything fills those parameters. Because we're not fully aware of the inter-connectivity of the universe, we see many things as chance, random, chaotic, or any other synonym you want to use. The truth is, everything is connected.

So to the point. We are not a mistake, but our purpose, our goal (which we are currently resisting because of our materialistic ways) could only be reached using free will, and right now we're going through the teenager phase of our development. We're rambunctious, obnoxious, moody, demanding, and highly irresponsible. If there is any sort of god at all, this is the point when it/they are consoling themselves by repeating the phrase "They'll grow out of it, they'll grow out of it," and meanwhile they're hiding behind their hands and peeking through their fingers, fearing our creativity and dreading the moment we find our next "outlet", knowing we won't make the right choice but hoping we'll learn from the mistake.

Just give it a thousand more years and see what we're like. If we don't straighten up in that time, then a "random" meteor will find us and snuff us out like the dinosaurs. And really, I can't say I'd be too disappointed. Enough is enough, you know?

edit on 16-8-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Aliensun
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Good last line of yours saying, "Thoughts?"

The answer you seek is in thoughts. More precisely, in consciousness. That is the key.

We can explain it to some degree, but early ways keep us from expressing it completely and most don't want to bother anyway.


I have pondered this. If there is a reason for this existence, then it is only for the sake of thought. Without consciousness, what (and how) would a living thing care if it was destroyed?

However, if consciousness is everything, then why did it take the universe 14 billion years to create us? And if all we do is return to a state of pure consciousness after we die, then what's the point of this existence? If consciousness is all-knowing (or at least has the knowledge advanced enough to create a whole universe) then why bother with creating such UN-knowledgeable creatures? What could we learn here that the consciousness doesn't already know?



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Who is to say that in the near future scientist will discover that the universe is more than 14 billion years old or less. Most of the time when we discover or learn something new it changes are way of thinking

We are still taking baby steps towards Space exploration. not to mention that there is still much of this earth we have yet to discover. The farthest man has ever Traveled was on the our Moon, according to the government. We are still learning about our true origins. Each time something new always pops up that makes us think and react differently.

We live in a world were there are mistakes, were there is reason, where things can be organized and unorganized.
We now have the knowledge to play with our genetics, to move things around were they are not suppose to be.

Are all atoms the same or does every single atom has its very own, you can say "personal", characteristics?
Some things are mistakes somethings are not depends on what perspective you look at it.

Did your mom and Dad meet by mistake or were they Introduced? And when they she got pregnant was it by mistake or did she want a child? Either way both ways work. and it works both ways.

edit on 16-8-2012 by BacknTime because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-8-2012 by BacknTime because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 10:59 PM
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We are just here on earth because we are............

There is no point us being here, we do not help the earth in any way we just hinder it.....

When you or I die, that doesn't matter, we are just replaced by another human who is also pointless in the whole scheme of things........

And so on and so on and so on.........



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by ThinkingCap


A Grain of Sand

The above, is that very grain of sand.



Wow! Thanks for that pic. Never knew what sand looked like under a microscope. What those grains suggest to me is that everything is quite random.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by jiggerj
 


We are all connected on a much deeper level


No we aren't.


no matter how separate or random anything may seem, it happened for a reason.


No it didn't.


You may scoff at this, but just think: everything is designed.


No it isn't.


The truth is, everything is connected.


Agreed. Everything is made of the same stuff.


and right now we're going through the teenager phase of our development. We're rambunctious, obnoxious, moody, demanding, and highly irresponsible.


We've been this way throughout all of mankind's history. And, we'll remain this way because everything you mentioned is what defines us. We can't be anything more or anything less.


Just give it a thousand more years and see what we're like. If we don't straighten up in that time, then a "random" meteor will find us and snuff us out like the dinosaurs. And really, I can't say I'd be too disappointed. Enough is enough, you know?


Well, if six to twelve thousand years of recorded history shows us to be the exact same way today as we were back then, I don't see what a thousand more years is going to do.

Thanks. This was fun!



posted on Aug, 20 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Do me a favor? Stop contradicting yourself. I can spot two places where you said one thing, then flipped it so you wouldn't look stupid.







 
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