What do you expect ?!?

The country was designed as a big workhouse (an old english solution to poverty during the industrial revolution).
The point of the exercize was to import workers who would do anything to stay in employment (no security outside of a job, no healthcare either) this means the greedy business men and factory owners could (and largely still do) treat workers as badly as they liked and the poor fool of a worker would beg for more. Brilliant little scheme, no?
Also on a poilitical fromt thie place was desigend as a trap. The main point about migrant workers is they are (big word coming up) disenfranchized. This is to say they have less interest in what happens around them (esp politically) as they are not from there.

Add the two up and we have this place run by big business and a political elite who have no interferance from the sheepl they herd.

QED

People wonder why these people sell drugs, steal, even kill to eat. They really dont have choice, when you wake-up in the morning, you know its this or starve.

It is what it is.

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
People wonder why these people sell drugs, steal, even kill to eat. They really dont have choice, when you wake-up in the morning, you know its this or starve.

I am right behind you on that...

poverty is the root of all crime.

"A new study based on data from the Census Bureau from 2002, published by the nonpartisan Working Poor Families Project has found that one in every five U.S. jobs pays less than a poverty-level wage for a family of four. This brings the figure to 39 million Americans, 20 million of which are children, whose families basically live paycheck to paycheck struggling to provide basic needs such as housing, food and child care."

I had no idea that Walmart and Sams had that many employees!

Bah, there are so many govt. sponsored programs to help you become a more marketable person. Job training, govt. school loan programs, etc. I am a firm believer that if you put the effort into making more money. By training yourself. Self school. Govt sponsored programs, you will see the benefits.

The question you have to ask is, are these people looking for handouts. To put no effort into something and get a job that pays 40k and up? Or do they simply not know about these programs that are available. These programs are out there and I know not many people use them, so whats the deal?

Oh, more leftist drivel. Truth is, if you are a U.S. citizen, you are, simply by that fact, better off financially than most of the population on this planet. I've been in those "poor folks" homes, and I've seen their big screen tv's, microwave ovens, vacumm cleaners, cd players, furniture, cars, bicycles.........

Why must every Issue become a left or right Issue??? NON Partisan Study? Poor Working Americans fall under both political party influence. The problem with the people in this country during this time, is that they have lost sight of the "Big Picture" and have been become ignorant as they try to make everything partisan one way or another.

Actually given the deviation against the gravity of the total populace of the U.S. suggests this is more like 'right' drivel, but that is only semantics....
Regardless of political stance, it has effected us all, if it hasn't then those people may not understand the plight of suffering the poor deal with on a day to day basis.

There are around 400(or 500?) million Americans total. Even if you overlay a bell curve against those figures, then you are not talking about the working poor, but rather the inempt or unemployed. I would have ventured to guess that the working poor is closer to 100 to 125 million. Perhaps I am jaded.
This would leave 260 million minimum for middle and wealth classes..
The study would put that at 361 million minimum for middle and wealth classes..

1 in 5? That would mean closer to 80 to 100 million. 400/5 500/5 repectively
this only illustrates two things, the census bureu needs to be more thorough
or there is information missing....

It does make one wonder how long it will be before politicians see the connection between poverty and crime. However, they are not only cause, there are others... greed and power drive a person just as hard to harm another person.

[edit on 12-10-2004 by Crysstaafur]

Originally posted by worldwatcher
Why must every Issue become a left or right Issue??? NON Partisan Study? Poor Working Americans fall under both political party influence. The problem with the people in this country during this time, is that they have lost sight of the "Big Picture" and have been become ignorant as they try to make everything partisan one way or another.

It has been tradition for Liberal Democrats to utilize issues of poverty, homelessness, social injustice, and the like, in particular during election years, to attempt to paint a poor picture of republican/conservative economic/social policies, to think otherwise is ones right, but rather delusional in my opinion.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
... it is hard to see the benefits and claims being made of the U.S. economy currently being strong, when you have to choose between paying a utility bill or feeding your family.

When has it not been like this in the US? During Clinton's administration, while i was in the Navy, my parents were going through really bad times....Like my parents there were millions of people going through the same thing. This is a fact of life unfortunately....and my paycheck from the Navy wasn't that much either...

[edit on 12-10-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by build319
Bah, there are so many govt. sponsored programs to help you become a more marketable person. Job training, govt. school loan programs, etc. I am a firm believer that if you put the effort into making more money. By training yourself. Self school. Govt sponsored programs, you will see the benefits.

The question you have to ask is, are these people looking for handouts. To put no effort into something and get a job that pays 40k and up? Or do they simply not know about these programs that are available. These programs are out there and I know not many people use them, so whats the deal?

The working poor is a different case--Between working, sometimes two or three jobs, and taking care of their kids, when are these people supposed to attend these classes? Many of these people aren't looking for handouts--many are proud people that are just trying to work hard and support their families, but don't have a college education or the language skills to get better jobs. Many are single-parent homes, where the problem is even worse.

Poverty is a serious issue that many people mistakenly pin on the poor people themselves. I am sure there are some that are lazy, but most are just trapped. I really don't think that most poor people are poor by choice. The case of the working poor is really tragic because they are working hard at low-paying jobs and are too busy just trying to keep their head above water to take classes or find another job.

I am just going off of my own experience. I have seen too many people take advantage of the system. Yes, working three jobs and trying to maintain a family is very difficult. This is why there are programs out there that will help pay for college and supplement income while you are getting additional job training. Language skills should be learned from the get go and they can work to correct that. Alot of people that I work with you wouldnt be able to even understand them outside the office but they use correct english while here at the office. I know there are some circumstances which make it very difficult, ie mental retardation and the such but I still firmly believe that a big portion of these people just need to know what is available out there for them. If they know about these programs but yet do nothing, we can't help them and we shouldnt be obligated to. Help others to help themselves.

I think that number is ALOT higher than quoted. People that live week to week is a nom in America. Families that have the 3/2/2 ranch home and the SUV's are not rich, they are treading water, most in debt with creidt in the range of 10-100 thousand dollars.

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
People wonder why these people sell drugs, steal, even kill to eat. They really dont have choice, when you wake-up in the morning, you know its this or starve.

It is what it is.

Well, they CAN join the military; and now some can even get overseas jobs with companies like Kellogg, Brown and Root...
[one and the same, except KBR employees have a better health plan]
The money's better, and the people shooting are easily identified - they're the ones in the turbans holding sharp knives and AK-47s...

[sorry - atempt at humor failed]
Thing is, to have a decent standard of living, one must either (a) be born into nouveau riche, (b) be born into Old School Money, (c)have an exploitable talent, (d)personally exploit one's talents.

Other than (a) and (b) pretty much covers most of the wage earners (and te prostitutes, drug pushers, and assorted working class freaks) in America.

Sad, ain't it?

Originally posted by build319
Bah, there are so many govt. sponsored programs to help you become a more marketable person. Job training, govt. school loan programs, etc. I am a firm believer that if you put the effort into making more money. By training yourself. Self school. Govt sponsored programs, you will see the benefits.

The question you have to ask is, are these people looking for handouts. To put no effort into something and get a job that pays 40k and up? Or do they simply not know about these programs that are available. These programs are out there and I know not many people use them, so whats the deal?

Well, my husband is a machinist, and I was working in a print shop, and knew how to run most of the machines, and could at least help out on the ones I didn't know how to run....
our income during this time fell around in that level.....
with us sometimes working close to 50 hours a day.

umm....a machinist (with close to 20 yrs of experience and training), making low level wages...that's sickening!!!

What gets me though is when you are talking about the near minumum wage jobs....work three jobs??? umm...if you have any kids that you need childcare for, the only way for it not to come out in the red is if you have someone, like your husband, willing to watch the kids for free! The childcare for the kids is more that your paycheck....of course the gov't doesn't seem to have any objection to paying nine or more dollars an hour in childcare so someone can earn six or so dollars an hour in wages!! When you talk about getting a third job, just how do you propose a family with two adults do this, handle the childcare on their own, since you are losing money if you hire that out with those low wages, plus manage the housekeeping and such.

and, oh ya, I have a son who would like to go to college, I'd help with his education before I'd worry about my own! The only thing I will hold out on is the college loans.....it shouldn't be costing that much for them to get the education in the first place...and the promises of well paying jobs helping them pay off the loan aren't being taking too seriously by me. That machinist job, 40 years ago, should of put us in a pretty good position also!

build319 is right about a few things. There are numerous programs that would help someone below the pverty line pay for higher education, while there are numerous other programs that would provide them sufficient living conditions while attaining a degree. As for single parents, I've yet to visit a state funded university campus that didn't have child-care facilities.

We here in the US (even our poor) have it pretty well compared to most of the world. My family has always made their livings through the military and civil service (which as muaddib said, doesn't necessarily pay all that well), and I have been denied very little in life (except for maybe a new mercedes or a yacht, wah). There have always been poor people, and sadly there probably always will be. Poor folk in America are filthy rich by third world standards.
One of my Argentinian friends used to rant and rave about how our poor people actually had cars lol. He said that to have a car back in his country was the first step toward being a playboy lol.

Originally posted by smokenmirrors

Originally posted by worldwatcher
Why must every Issue become a left or right Issue??? NON Partisan Study? Poor Working Americans fall under both political party influence. The problem with the people in this country during this time, is that they have lost sight of the "Big Picture" and have been become ignorant as they try to make everything partisan one way or another.

It has been tradition for Liberal Democrats to utilize issues of poverty, homelessness, social injustice, and the like, in particular during election years, to attempt to paint a poor picture of republican/conservative economic/social policies, to think otherwise is ones right, but rather delusional in my opinion.

Delusional is to think that those republican/conservative economic/social policies don't manufacture an increase in homelessness, social injustice and the like, (as they've ALL GONE UP DRAMATICALLY DURING BUSH's term), everytime Republicans have a majority to implement them.
And when they are incumbent, yes, bet your @ss these issues are brought up - failed policy is failed policy, something that is also disgustingly evident.

Delusional BT? Say what?
Ahh, wait...let me guess, this is Bushie's fault also, huh?

You know whats really delusional? Delusional is knowing that this report is NOT done by a non-partisan group. Delusional is knowing that this report is nohing but bias half-truths. Delusional is that no one has taken into account the key words of: family of four. Delusional is thinking that Kerry and the Democrats have a solution to this...

More of the same ole strategy: blame, blame, its Bush's fault, its Bush's fault...



seekerof

Originally posted by Bout Time
Delusional is to think that those republican/conservative economic/social policies don't manufacture an increase in homelessness, social injustice and the like, (as they've ALL GONE UP DRAMATICALLY DURING BUSH's term), everytime Republicans have a majority to implement them.
And when they are incumbent, yes, bet your @ss these issues are brought up - failed policy is failed policy, something that is also disgustingly evident.

Seems to me like both parties have played vital roles in the recession/prosperity cycle for quite some time. This is why the concept of regular elections (with a 2 term maximum) has proven so successful here, economically speaking.

Reading this thread makes me think of a bumper sticker that I had once read. The sticker was divided into two halves... one said, "Vote Republican" the other said "Vote Democrat", at the bottom it said, "Because it's easier than thinking." LOL!