Broken Arrow Businessman Says President Obama Can Kiss His...

reply to post by burdman30ott6


IRS allows 51cents a mile tax right off for businesses. How did there tax on gas pay for the roads? They get to right it off. 6 to 8 miles per gallon. 51 x 6 = $3.06 per gallon wrote off on there taxes.

I am always struck buy people that say it must be because I was just so smart, there are a lot of smart people out there,
It must be because I worked harder then everybody else.
If you are successful somebody along the line gave you some help.

youtu.be...

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Kaiju

 

Except that we weren't born into a blank and clean world where somebody handed us all the same exact tools and supplies. We were born into a world where the infrastructure was already extant and in place. We were born into a society.

This is the key to the argument and difference of opinion. I was not born into a vacuum. I did not self-create. I am the sum of my experiences and opportunities... all which have occurred in a predetermined structure and social setting.

~Heff

If you were born into a world with infrastructure in place, then (using my analogy) you had the wood and nails waiting for you at birth. As did those around you. The setting and structure may have been predetermined but it's the individual's motivation to change the setting or structure to their liking that makes people successful.

reply to post by Kaiju


To a point I agree. But somebody would have to teach me how to use the materials I was given, and how to interact with and use the infrastructure. Then, even with initiative, I would have to network with others, find help ( a workforce) to help me in my endeavors, and so on.

The myth of the self made man is not valid in my eyes. There are people who bust their butts and get wealthy for it - and I applaud them. Then again I've known people who also busted their butts to barely hang on. It's all relative and complicated - success is fickle.

But nobody alive can say they did it all on their own. And if they do, they are arrogant beyond my understanding.

~Heff

Originally posted by JBA2848
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

IRS allows 51cents a mile tax right off for businesses. How did there tax on gas pay for the roads? They get to right it off. 6 to 8 miles per gallon. 51 x 6 = $3.06 per gallon wrote off on there taxes.

edit on 16-8-2012 by JBA2848 because: (no reason given)

Um... because there's a world of difference between gas taxes and business income taxes and, more importantly, what each is ear marked for? The per mile write off is not just for gas, it also covers insurance, maintenance, parking, tolls, etc. Gas tax in a state like New York or California is over $0.70 a gallon. That entire $.70 is placed directly into the Federal Highway Trust Fund (well, $.27 worth is) and into the individual state's transportation budget. Income tax/business tax goes into a big pot from which everything from the military to NASA to Congress' paychecks is drawn from. Furthermore, taxes are levied on profits in regards to businesses... meaning the $0.51/mile is considered by the IRS to be a justifiable cost of doing business by vehicle (Also known as a loss).

Just out of curiosity, have you ever pondered how someone with no vehicle pays for the roads which they benefit from through recieving mail, grocery deliveries to their local store, visitors to their front door, streets and sidewalks for their pedestrian commutes, etc? Here's a hint... they don't pay anywhere near the share that anyone who actually pays for gasoline does, yet they recieve an almost equal amount of benefit from the roads as any motorist does.

Again, should the person who is already paying the lion's share be the party looking to "give back", or should it be the person who isn't contributing much at all, yet recieves major returns off someone else's investment who is looking to return the favor in some manner?

reply to post by Hefficide

I agree with everything you wrote, but maybe we are discussing two different things.
My point, based on Obama's socialistic nature and admitted wealth redistribution desire, is that the successful person owes some kind of debt to those who helped to put them their. I don't agree. The teacher and "others" you mentioned are available to everyone equally (for the most part, we both know it's not a perfect system), as are the roads and bridges, etc. The people don't elect someone to get behind and push hard to make that person rich so they can reap some kind of reward. The individual elects themselves and makes fair contracts (hopefully) with those he chooses to help him. Obama, and those like hm simply have a problem with successful people having more than less successful people do, somehow almost seeing it as unfair.

Do you think, if I practiced hard and became a great chess player, that I owe the company that made the chess board and pieces a debt because they contributed to my success? My opponent had access to and used the same board and pieces. Aquiring a debt for winning can also be seen as having to compensate my opponent for his loss. That is how Obama view things. That is my point.

Originally posted by Kaiju
reply to post by Hefficide

 

Do you think, if I practiced hard and became a great chess player, that I owe the company that made the chess board and pieces a debt because they contributed to my success? My opponent had access to and used the same board and pieces. Aquiring a debt for winning can also be seen as having to compensate my opponent for his loss. That is how Obama view things. That is my point.

Not at all... but you'd owe your chess coach and those you've played with over the years a great deal!

~Heff

Originally posted by Hefficide

Originally posted by Kaiju
reply to post by Hefficide

 

Do you think, if I practiced hard and became a great chess player, that I owe the company that made the chess board and pieces a debt because they contributed to my success? My opponent had access to and used the same board and pieces. Aquiring a debt for winning can also be seen as having to compensate my opponent for his loss. That is how Obama view things. That is my point.

Not at all... but you'd owe your chess coach and those you've played with over the years a great deal!

~Heff

The only problem there is many chess players are self taught like myself, just like many business owners are self taught.

reply to post by neo96


Fair enough.

But without other peoples involvement, in the end, you're just playing chess with yourself. Individual achievement, ability, and accomplishment are wonderful things - but without comparatives, competition, structure, and other people - it's all nothing more than clapping with one hand.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide

I wish Obama's brainless followers would be willing to do the same with Doug Lamborn's "tar baby" comment. Unfortunately, since they won't, I'll be damned if I'll give that "super smart", "highly educated" man in the White House a pass. Someone of his "great leadership" and "intelligence" shouldn't have to have some moderator on ATS or some shill elsewhere translate "what he meant to say".

reply to post by navy_vet_stg3


Wonderful tirade - full of emotion and the "shill" remark tops it off nicely. The fact that it isn't accurate is probably not your major concern though... as I did not put any spin on anything - in fact I directly quoted and sourced what OBAMA said in this post on page two.

If having my own opinions makes me a shill, then...

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


Go back and REREAD it. I never called you a shill.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


www.irs.gov...=240903,00.html

In recognition of recent gasoline price increases, the IRS made this special adjustment for the final months of 2011. The IRS normally updates the mileage rates once a year in the fall for the next calendar year.

"This year's increased gas prices are having a major impact on individual Americans. The IRS is adjusting the standard mileage rates to better reflect the recent increase in gas prices," said IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman. "We are taking this step so the reimbursement rate will be fair to taxpayers."

While gasoline is a significant factor in the mileage figure, other items enter into the calculation of mileage rates, such as depreciation and insurance and other fixed and variable costs.

Thats why the IRS raised the milage rate due to high prices of gas because it has nothing to do with the gas? Gas has everything to do with the milage rate tax cut.So how does a business pay taxes toward the road like everybody else who does not get to right this off?

reply to post by burdman30ott6


And someone who does noy buy gas gets as much use as a trucking company owned by say Koch Industries who does not pay gas taxes either because they get to right off the taxes. So whos paying? The people who keep bitching semis running up and down the road owned by big business don't pay for the roads they destroy with semis. The guy who walks on a sidewalk to the corner store and then returns home after work should be taxed not the huge trucking companies? That does not make sence.

Wow, glad to see some other Tulsa area ats members...I'll have to drive by there soon

reply to post by Hefficide


So what, fair is not now, nor has it ever been equal. There will never be a society where everything is equal. Get over it.

reply to post by MsAphrodite

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

emphasis mine

US Declaration of Independence

Basic civics lesson for the day. We are ALL equal under law.

I'll ignore that your shot was based upon a quote that you didn't provide any context for to begin with and simply stick with the above.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


Yes we are all equal under the law. That doesn't change my point. Fair is not equal.

reply to post by MsAphrodite


The first thing you replied to was the following:

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Kaiju

 

Except that we weren't born into a blank and clean world where somebody handed us all the same exact tools and supplies. We were born into a world where the infrastructure was already extant and in place. We were born into a society.

This is the key to the argument and difference of opinion. I was not born into a vacuum. I did not self-create. I am the sum of my experiences and opportunities... all which have occurred in a predetermined structure and social setting.

~Heff

I fail to see where there is any argument about fairness involved.

To this you responded:

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by Hefficide

 

So what, fair is not now, nor has it ever been equal. There will never be a society where everything is equal. Get over it.

Exacerbating my confusion here is that the statement you quoted, from me, was just one aspect of a larger conversation that didn't have anything at all to do with fairness. It was a discussion of social obligation and privilege.

I'm at a loss at as to how "fairness" got into this in the first place,

~Heff

Sorry I was referencing our President's preference to say that we all need to pay our "fair share."

Fair is not equal.