Rising tensions explode into grisly violence at South African mine

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posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 03:23 AM
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reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
 


true but acting like it doesnt exist isnt right either. these people were slaughtered . you can see them being herded to their deaths. and they were so ready to kill they opened fire with one of their own in the kill zone. these are facts. listen to his aljezera report. its sic. at .04 of the vid you can see them running they pan to a guy firing a gas grenades. while this happens a truck pulls up corralling the men into the waiting executioners. what do you see? are you going to believe that those men were "charging"?




posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 03:26 AM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 


The Police were not the aggressors in this event. The mob had already murdered two security guards and another worker. The police were also taking fire. Then you see the mob charging the police armed with knives and other weapons granting the Police the use of lethal force.

Thank god no one innocent got hurt here.

Very brave of those officers as well for not returning fire before they charged.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 03:32 AM
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Originally posted by Another_Nut
reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
 


true but acting like it doesnt exist isnt right either. these people were slaughtered . you can see them being herded to their deaths. and they were so ready to kill they opened fire with one of their own in the kill zone. these are facts. listen to his aljezera report. its sic. at .04 of the vid you can see them running they pan to a guy firing a gas grenades. while this happens a truck pulls up corralling the men into the waiting executioners. what do you see? are you going to believe that those men were "charging"?


This was hardly a slaughter of innocents. It was not like you make it out to sound. It was an action reaction situation. Those police men were just as scared, or even more scared of the mob than the mob of the police.
Fact is, it was a tragic incident. The protest got violent, and the police reacted. Even cops were killed in this incident. It wasn't just them rocking up there, and started spraying the bullets.

vvv



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 03:37 AM
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i'd say it was more of an action/overreaction situation. excessive, to say the least.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

Originally posted by Another_Nut
reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
 


true but acting like it doesnt exist isnt right either. these people were slaughtered . you can see them being herded to their deaths. and they were so ready to kill they opened fire with one of their own in the kill zone. these are facts. listen to his aljezera report. its sic. at .04 of the vid you can see them running they pan to a guy firing a gas grenades. while this happens a truck pulls up corralling the men into the waiting executioners. what do you see? are you going to believe that those men were "charging"?


This was hardly a slaughter of innocents. It was not like you make it out to sound. It was an action reaction situation. Those police men were just as scared, or even more scared of the mob than the mob of the police.
Fact is, it was a tragic incident. The protest got violent, and the police reacted. Even cops were killed in this incident. It wasn't just them rocking up there, and started spraying the bullets.

vvv




Six firearms were recovered from protesters including one that had belonged to a police officer

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omg people wake up . these miners had 6 guns. and how many bullets do you think they had? .
jeez .i said they would have 3 guns. 2 officers died last week vs. 34 miners dead . and this is ok? im gonna look into the those officers deaths as well . no officers died yesterday because it was just an exercise in execution.watch the aljezraa report where they say the protesters were surrounded with razor wire and trucks. thats crazy people. then when they fire gas in and people scatter they yell
and it was the protesters that started it?
edit on 17-8-2012 by Another_Nut because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 10:56 AM
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ZA is done for, just like Rhodesia. Just a matter of time. The former breadbaskets will become the s*&#baskets once more. The Chinese will not have on kid gloves like the Europeans.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by Macabe
I dont think the police ever had any intention in negotiating in good faith, they walked in there in a perfect firing line. Like the old days of apartheid.


Except in the old days, all of the police firing on the blacks were white. You can see in the video and pics the police are both black, white and in between. It is unlikely the ANC government will ever be able to manage South Africa, they aren't smart enough to not fall into all the old sociological traps. In a funny way, I kind of wish Magnus was still alive so I could say "told ya so." I told him it would take 20 years to train the ANC to govern properly and if they didn't train them, there would be almost continuous racial violence and it would start to peak in 20 years with more racial and "entitlement" violence. Ok, so I was off by two years. Just watch what happens when that scumbag mandela dies, I expect South Africa will be painted in blood.

Cheers - Dave



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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There is already a more informative thread with pictures and vid here-
www.abovetopsecret.com...

'Reuters photographer Siphiwe Sibeko said he saw at least one of the protesters shoot a pistol before the police, who included black and white officers, opened fire.'

"A guy from the protesters fired a gunshot towards us, a pistol," Sibeko said'


uk.reuters.com...



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Another_Nut
reply to post by halfoldman
 



I'm not convinced the incident can be judged simply by the clips, since they don't show the whole incident and what preceded the police reaction.

the video does show what proceeded the shooting. men running with their heads down trying to flee gas grenades . all while dodging "police" trucks and razor wire. but the 3 pistols 6 machetes and assorted sticks and rocks are what really caused it .
no point in trying to point out that you say your not convinced while coming up with these unverifiable "facts".

you wait for an official story. i think we all know what that will say.



The OP footage from CNN and parts of the Aljazeera footage clearly shows people running towards the police in a charge from the brush.

I'm not sure where your frugal weapon count comes from (3 pistols, 6 machetes and sticks and stones ...)
Clearly it's not from any source familiar with the SA situation.

I'd like to see people react when somebody with a massive machete or African spear runs towards them.
See a picture of the machete here: ewn.co.za...
It's not OK for our people to be butchered like animals just because some group has a grievance.
Will you shoot or wait till it's sticking in your head?
Will you wait till it disembowels you?
They'd already butchered two cops since last Friday.

Today two more people were killed.

A lot of people say they had no business having weapons on a labor strike.
The black unions usually vote ANC, and although other parties will try to get political advantage out of this, there is no political reason why the ANC or the cops should "massacre" strikers.
Everyone in SA society must become less violent.
It's not necessary to be that violent.
Why can't SA groups strike and protest without weapons, killing and burning things?
Our police are violent, and these strikes are violent, and the ordinary citizen is always terrified.
This is not right.
We have a democracy and a modern constitution.
There's no excuse for people to act violent.

I think there's a lot of soul searching for SA that few outsiders could understand.

But I don't think it will stop now - violence clearly gets world attention.

SA thread on police violence I made last year: www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 17-8-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 03:11 PM
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Is there a "third-force" in SA directing violence?
This has long been the stuff of conspiracy.

One worker who was on the radio this morning said the whole thing was orchestrated by four guys.
They said people must bring weapons to show "they mean business".
They also had a sangoma (traditional shaman, or a witchdoctor) who told them he had "muti" (traditional medicine) which would make them invincible to the police.

I have no quotes or links or facts on this, but I heard it this morning from a striker on the radio, and that kind of stirring is not unusual.

Somebody was stirring the pot and orchestrating this.
The question is why?

Unless there's a force that wants general chaos in the world (which is possible) I don't see anybody directly benefiting in SA itself, except that metal shares in SA have shifted elsewhere.
Aha!
But this is just a theory.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 09:50 PM
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edit on 17-8-2012 by Oaktree because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by Oaktree
 

Huh?
How do you mean that?

Well one could say that all these big mines are owned by Anglo-American conglomerates.

But I don't know how it directly relates to Bush.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


Well, I saw who the O.P. was and just assumed.
Oops.
Edited when I realized my mistake.

All apologies.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by Oaktree
 

Actually it's not bad.

People are struggling with each other over things they should own, but don't own, and will never own.
So who does own it all?

OK one cannot connect it to US politics as such, but the families who own so much in mining would probably include Bush.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


this sir shows your complete bias in this situation



It's not OK for our people to be butchered like animals just because some group has a grievance.

and


Today two more people were killed.


no sir that day over 35 people were killed.

but only 2 were "people"? right.

i think thats about as far as we need go.

edit to add that in your own


See a picture of the machete here: ewn.co.za...


it even says that the protesters were forced to carry the weapons. yet you tell me they were "charging" the police? really?

so from YOUR sources ive learned that the protesters didnt want the weapons that they were "charging" with and they had been corralled with razor wire and trucks before the shooting started. yet you blame them.
edit on 17-8-2012 by Another_Nut because: (no reason given)
edit on 18-8-2012 by Another_Nut because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 


Humanity loses its battle to evolve, daily.

Just a sad, sick, twisted situation.

Prayers for the people who died. Justice for the people who died.

S&F



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 01:14 AM
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reply to post by Another_Nut
 


I think you should read more about the whole incident from the start.

Like two different unions going against each other, intimidating each other escalating the problem.

All in all it was a sad incident that will be remembered and also investigated.

There is also claims that the union members shot at were marching to slaughter people in a nearby informal settlement and also that police were begging for hours for the people to disarm, to go home to disarm... But they were continuously getting riled up by internal elements.

Get educated on the situation.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by Another_Nut
 

I don't blame anybody.
I wasn't there (thank God), and I also cannot blame the police for what they were faced with, like you insist on doing.

The official death toll now stands at 34, although earlier yesterday it was 36, and this site claims it's possibly 44.
www.timeslive.co.za...

Added to this are 10 people who were hacked, torched and shot to death since last Friday (including two cops), but at that point nobody gave a stuff about SA.
Now we have self-appointed "experts" like you.

Yesterday select people were shown footage that was never broadcast to the public:

Earlier at the briefing, the police showed video footage of how two policemen were killed by a group of protesters. The video showed police officials confronting the group, asking for weapons.
The men told the police the weapons would be handed over at the mountain, and the police followed them there.
At the hilltop, the incident turned violent and the two police officers were killed. Journalists were also shown aerial photographs of the naked men doing a ritual with a sangoma.
The group was described as "pretty militant".

www.timeslive.co.za...

The two deaths I referred to were further killings mentioned on the radio yesterday afternoon.

The dust has not settled on this situation, and I wouldn't regard anything as final right now.
There's conflicting media information on details.

You can hate me all you want, but you are clearly out of your depths.
But that's OK.
I'm glad somebody finally cares about SA.

Just don't try to paint me as a bad person or a racist, or our police and institutions as inherently evil and idiotic.
That's just mean and ridiculous.
Nobody here from SA would ever do that if a tragedy occurred in another country.
edit on 18-8-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 02:01 AM
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It's interesting to go to the United Nations website to see the UN official stance on this escapade.
You'd think they'd have "something" to say about it but well, not so much, maybe Monday.
Or maybe it's a case of an unwelcome distraction ie "HEY! Look over here! We haven't finished with Syria yet. Focus people."
edit on 18-8-2012 by trouble_every_day because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 02:30 AM
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reply to post by trouble_every_day
 

Well that's an interesting point.

But no matter how much global news reports swing any bias it never comes to a point.

The global establishment celebrated the ANC, and despite many other scandals and deaths the liberal establishment continued to do so.

The ANC is trying hard for damage control, since they run and train the police since 1994.

So we get some leftist reports criticizing all this, but what are they actually criticizing?
There's no right-wing or colonial state they can blame for the excessive force.
They have to blame their own creation.
Most don't realize it at first, but the initial outrage quickly gives way to some cultural comments on violence in SA (I heard yesterday they blamed it on our "macho" male culture).
Who is the outrage directed at?
"Saint Mandela" and his party?
Surely not.
So it becomes very circular and harks back to apartheid history and irrelevant comparisons.

If the police are to blame, the ANC is to blame, and if the ANC is to blame the entire neo-liberal leftist global intelligentsia is to blame.

So the language in the articles is quite interesting - there's an outrage, but ultimately nobody is clearly to blame!
If it wasn't so tragic, it would be funny.
It's like a revolution without a revolt.

It's the bad police, who work for ... oh never mind ... it's just the bad police.

Well maybe the world has finally seen a truth about SA.
But they'll forget soon again, and then criticizing the ANC will again be similar to racism or internalized colonialism.
Just like they forgot about Mugabe.

I'll give the ANC credit so far though in that they stuck to their police, and a huge chunk of the country for the first time actually sympathizes with the police, because we cannot go forward like this where every group with a beef uses weapons.
People outside SA may not understand, but behavior in that vein is a pattern in our country, and ultimately it destabilizes our society and legitimizes violence.
edit on 18-8-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)





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