Rising tensions explode into grisly violence at South African mine

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posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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Rising tensions explode into grisly violence at South African mine


www.cnn.com

Johannesburg, South Africa (CNN) -- Rising tensions at a South African platinum mine exploded Thursday in grisly violence as police fired on striking miners.

Blood-stained bodies lay strewn about a field in a police response reminiscent of the days of apartheid.

Police have not released a death toll, but a South African Press Association reporter counted 18 corpses. It's feared more could be dead.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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Saw this on CNN, the video shows police responding with excessive, extreme violence, to a group of protesting South African miners, mowing them down in a hail of gunfire. At least 18 dead so far.

The miners went on strike last Friday. There were earlier clashes between police and miners.

Warning the video is graphic:



Johannesburg TV has more:
South Africa mine shooting: Police open fire on striking workers

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
edit on 16-8-2012 by Blackmarketeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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Come to a town near you....



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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SMH a wish- I WISH ALL THE PRESCIOUS METALS AND MINERALS WERE REGATHERED that were not used for cientific technology. Its bad enough the miners have to deal with uncomfortable work conditions to make the supposed financially"well off" but spiritually weak happy with their trinkets & toys from such a poor inhabited continent ect. Now they cannot even speak out w/o this type of activity placed u pon them... 1 hopes GOD(s) PLEASE VISIT that region AGAIN along with similar regions of ignorance FIRST smh.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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I just watched the video ....quite disgusting. Aside from the obvious gruesomeness of the video, something seemed off???

I'm not sure what it is yet though.



I'll post back if I can figure it out what it is.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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I dont think the police ever had any intention in negotiating in good faith, they walked in there in a perfect firing line. Like the old days of apartheid.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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It's difficult to blame the police for the violence in this case.

While police brutality is a big problem in SA, so is the violence of the unions, criminals and all kinds of protestors.

The violence has been going on since last week Friday, and by Tuesday 10 people had been killed, including two security guards (I think they were torched in their vehicles) and two policemen who were hacked to death.

Apparently the violence was between two labor unions, and the National Union of Metal Workers (NUM) complained that the police did nothing and had made no arrests.
www.news24.com...

The violence of the unions actually outraged many, and there was a definite feeling that the violence had to be brought under control, and also the intimidation of non-striking workers. There were even calls to bring in the army.

It's hard to say at this point who the armed mob was, to which union they belonged or whether they were simply criminal elements (as the unions now claim) and the reports have been confusing. It seems criminality and politics are getting harder to differentiate in SA. In other protests the houses of ANC councilors have been torched, and there's a localized threat to state security.

Even in SA with it's violent strikes, service delivery protests and open calls by the ANC Youth League to make the DA-led Western Cape "ungovernable" this is a shocking death-toll, and more details and discussions are likely to emerge in the media.

Since the hacking to death of the two policemen a lot of sympathy actually went to the police and there's a sense that these violent "struggle-era" methods (which were often just as brutal as the police violence) are no longer an acceptable way to deal with grievances.

The shooting of an unarmed protestor called Andries Tatane in a service delivery protest was a clear case of police brutality, but when faced with an armed mob that won't hesitate to kill the police one cannot really blame them for opening fire.

Just more tragic and senseless violence.
edit on 16-8-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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Worst game of red light green light ever. Hate to see how they play Simon says.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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They were armed with sticks and machetes.


The police in post-apartheid South Africa have been accused of using deadly strong-arm tactics to suppress unrest before, but the action on Thursday surprised many South Africans and drew quick condemnation.

“Regardless of what police may argue about provocation, there is no possible justification for shooting into a crowd with rifles and handguns,” Frans Cronje of the South African Institute of Race Relations said on Twitter. Helen Zille, leader of the opposition Democratic Alliance, called the shootings a massacre.
(source)

It's still a massacre. Before you think "they deserved it", just recall a little place called Boston 230 years ago.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 11:59 PM
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thats kinda messed up. at .08 you see them fire gas at the guys. protesters put their heads down and run away from the gas . at which time they are decimated. the front guy doesnt even seem to even notice where the gun fire is coming from. hes just running . and by the end of the video you can see the place filling with the gas.sic .very sic.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 12:26 AM
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Just woke up and listened to an interview with Gia Nicolades (a journalist who was on the scene yesterday) on 567 Cape Talk Radio (the Kieno Kammies show).
www.capetalk.co.za...
(see 06:55 am)

The 4000 protesters were armed with machetes, spears and firearms (pistols and shotguns).
There were 400 police officers.
The crowd gathered on a hill where the police and union leaders tried to negotiate with them to disarm from yesterday morning to the afternoon.
Apparently they suddenly charged the police when chaos erupted.
The police used various weapons, including live ammunition, although they claim they were fired upon first.
The journalist says it's difficult to say who fired first during the chaos, but the crowd only dispersed when police vehicles moved forward.

The Health Department says the death toll is now 25.

Nicolades said that apparently there is Aljazeera footage which shows the protestors using firearms.
On E News they said last night that one firearm used by the protestors had belonged to the one policeman who had been hacked to death earlier in the week.
That's what one hears so far, but there's likely to be more discussion in the the day, and probably a commission of enquiry.

The police minister Nathi Mthethwa was just on air and said it should have been a labor issue that never involved the police, but they had to disarm the crowd yesterday.

Some Aljazeera reports and a good analysis of the confusing situation, with more links to the build-up throughout the week, although one doesn't see the protestors charge clearly, and they did not want journalists close to them.
So I'm not sure this is the footage referred to by Nicolades:
www.aljazeera.com...
edit on 17-8-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 12:55 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


where is this al-jizira footage? like i said if you watch the vid it looks like they were fired upon .and then gunned down when they tried to get away.if you listen to your own video it says they boxed the protesters in using razor wire and trucks .then opened fire. sic
edit on 17-8-2012 by Another_Nut because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 01:18 AM
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reply to post by Another_Nut
 

I'm merely posting what I've heard and can find so far.
None of the footage is mine.

Not sure if there's something in the Aljazeera footage that can be enhanced, or whether Nicolades was referring to footage that hasn't been broadcast yet.
The clips broadcast so far are very short and edited.
I'm sure this will be discussed further.

The fact that the protestors had guns is now pretty much part of the news, and that's also not surprising for the SA context.

The death-toll is now at 30 ... 35 as I'm listening to the radio and typing.

The police are run by the ANC whom I don't support, so if people want to unconditionally side with the protesters that's fine with me, but that's clearly not the whole story in a long and drawn out event.

edit on 17-8-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


so "just what you heard so far " and which hasent been shown anywhere is now a "fact"? watch the video in your own response. they were herded , gassed, and mowed down. those are facts. they had their hands on their heads when they were killed! just watch the video. i dont need to hear from some "reporter". i watched it.
edit on 17-8-2012 by Another_Nut because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 01:35 AM
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reply to post by Another_Nut
 

I'd rather believe people who were on the scene.

The fact is they were armed and had already killed two policemen.
Nicolades claimed Aljazeera had footage of the protestors shooting, I made that abundantly clear.
It's claimed they charged the police by the journalist on the scene.

But you seem to know better than our news.
So you can inform us.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 01:37 AM
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The death toll is now over 30, and the claim they were "heavily armed" (the miners) isn't being pushed like it was earlier.

UPDATE 1-More than 30 died in S.Africa mine crackdown -police

After more than 12 hours of official silence, Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa confirmed that at least 30 people had died in the security operation at the mine, 100 km (60 miles) northwest of Johannesburg.

Police opened fire with automatic weapons when 3,000 striking drill operators armed with machetes and sticks ignored orders to disperse.


We just have a claim they (the police) came under fire, but no video so far of that...



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


we were all there on the scene . hell you can hear one of the police saying "i shoot you " at .30 sec in. did you see a "charge"? because i heard someone in the distance saying "dont shoot " at .04 into the video. at the same time you glimpse the men running before it pans. they are all covering their heads trying to get away from the gas. they run between the 2 trucks and are fired upon . they didnt even see it coming. so how could there be a "charge"?



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by Another_Nut
 

Cape Talk's Eyewitness News has an interesting page of updates.
ewn.co.za...

According to my above link the Independent Police Investigative Directorate has sent two teams to the scene and they've collected cartridges from both the police and the miners.

I'm not convinced the incident can be judged simply by the clips, since they don't show the whole incident and what preceded the police reaction.

The fact that the protesters were armed with various weapons was known since Tuesday already when 10 people (including two police officers) had been killed.
They also had a hit-list against a rival union.
ewn.co.za...
The aim of the police was to disarm them, and some of them did disperse after lengthy negotiations.

The incident is being discussed on Radio 702 and Cape Talk if people can listen, and there will be various stakeholders on air for the next two hours.
www.capetalk.co.za...

The whole incident is under intense scrutiny at the moment, and I'll see what the media makes of it this evening.
edit on 17-8-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


sounds to me like you dont like to answer questions. instead you direct me to the official story.




I'm not convinced the incident can be judged simply by the clips, since they don't show the whole incident and what preceded the police reaction.


the video does show what proceeded the shooting. men running with their heads down trying to flee gas grenades . all while dodging "police" trucks and razor wire. but the 3 pistols 6 machetes and assorted sticks and rocks are what really caused it .
no point in trying to point out that you say your not convinced while coming up with these unverifiable "facts".

you wait for an official story. i think we all know what that will say.
edit on 17-8-2012 by Another_Nut because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 03:12 AM
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reply to post by Another_Nut
 


Mate, basing your judgement solely on that video is also not right.

There are more to this, than just that video.

vvv





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