Mind Control Theories

Edit: www.integralnaked.org...
See that link for the picture. Sorry for posting the picture directly

I'm interested in every single stage here. Including one that isn't listed-- an unnamed 100-200Hz wave.

Suppose someone found out how to send this energy out, then built a machine for it. It's already been proven that sounds effect your brainwaves, so it must be something within sound that generates the brainwaves.

What if this was true? People could start going berserk because they had their anxiety level above normal.

Suppose the effects were limited to.... say, 10m in an enclosed space, and the machine had to be directly next to that space. Let's say the machine was disguised as something like a water fountain, and put in a subway. No one would know that it was anything other than a water fountain, and the government itself was the one who put it there?

Why did I create this topic? To start a logical, and fact-based discussion of mind control.

[edit on 13-10-2004 by waternorth]

www.raven1.net...

Relevant Summary: Humans are already partially resistant to ELF (extremely low frequence) waves. Certain people have different levels of resistance. It is easy to detect if you are within range of one of these devices as "tingling, tightness, or nervousness" was easily detected.

"It is clear from these experiments that brain waves do in fact lock on to artificially produced ELFs in the 6 - 10 Hertz range. It is equally clear that the 10 second transmission was not sufficient to alter subjects moods to any consistent degree."


www.emf.com/library/scientific_info142.html

Relevant Summary: Cell phones produce some of these waves.


www.certifiedpst.com...

Relevant Summary: (Listed in order. Edited to make sense.)

15 Hz = Healing-- Cartilage repair
72 Hz (Rabbits) = Remodeling of head structure. (VERY far fetched)
10-38 Hz = Sleeping, serum chemistry. (Don't ask me what that means)
Statement: Waves can effect speed of nerve system-to-nerve communication.


I'll do some more research later. Does anyone something to contribute?

[edit on 12-10-2004 by waternorth]

Why did I create this topic? To start a logical, and fact-based discussion of mind control.

Fact: Tom Clancy writes fiction.

Fact: No brain wave above 110Hz has been scientificly measured.

Logical: Tom Clancy used a fictional concept of higher frequency brainwaves to write a novel. This concept has no basis in fact or reality.

I agree with all your points. Does that stop me or others from researching the possibility? I deny ignorance. I *believe* that it is theoretically possible for brainwaves to be over 110 Hz. Could you show some evidence (link please ) That brainwaves have never been measured over 110 Hz? I'd be glad to look at the rest of the info on this page.

I know you're not flaming me, but it's getting pretty close. Let's not turn this topic into a flamewar. Thanks

Edit: I was not inspired by Tom Clancy's novel to start researching this stuff. I only read it after someone that was working with me pointed it out to me.

[edit on 12-10-2004 by waternorth]

If we were THAT susceptible to various electromagnetic spectra, we wouldn't be able to function in society today. Sitting down in front of your monitor screen (60 hz) would instantly throw you into beta (there's pretty good evidence that it doesn't) and walking near power lines in your house would cause mood swings and physiological changes.

Your computer, the power lines in your house, the power lines around your house ALL exert a more powerful influence on your body than "mind control waves" from any other source.

I think we'd know if it was that effective.

As for their being "brain waves above 110 hz" methinks we're limited by the equipment. Neurons aren't wires and there needs to be a resting phase between each "firing." This is a set time period, and can't be "wired around" or abused or forced. Clancy's idea is amusing, but as others have pointed out, he writes fiction and his specialty is war machines... not physiology.

[edit on 12-10-2004 by Byrd]

I'm not about to argue with a supermoderator. However, if these low-frequency devices (i.e. computer) do give off these waves, then I'm going to find out why it dosen't effect us as much as the generators others have built. If you don't want to hear this "mumbo-jumbo," then pretend this topic isn't here, and let those who ARE interested in it look at and contribute to it. Thanks!

Edit: One more thing, DROP THE CLANCY STUFF! I was using it as an EXAMPLE.

[edit on 12-10-2004 by waternorth]

Originally posted by waternorth
Could you show some evidence (link please

) That brainwaves have never been measured over 110 Hz?
[edit on 12-10-2004 by waternorth]

Actually I can't. No one publishes what hasn't been observed but only what has been observed.

To date, 100Hz or more is already a rare occurance. I'm not saying 100+ Hz is impossible, its just never been documented. When you add in that pseudoscientist and astrologers are the only one making claims of 120+ Hz brainwaves then the subject leaves the realm of facts and logic.

The fact is the Human brain functions around 0.5-40 Hz with spikes up to about 100Hz. I am not aware of any published data that contradicts this or supports a greater than 110Hz human brainwave theory.

Just a couple of thoughts:

Most of the EEG measuring equipment (where most of the data is taken) tends to have some pretty agressive low pass filters set with cut of points below 50 Hz, some times narrow band pass, but even so multiple poles are required. Otherwise you would get a significant level of inductive noise from all the AC current moving around. You are measuring really low voltage signals on the outside of the head.

Would be interested if anybody has update rates, links, on the latest PET,fMRI scanners, but I think these are quite slow.

Hence the 0.5-30+ Hz results usually quoted for EEG studies.

You would probably require a pretty well constructed faraday cage and be running your sensors digitisation on real clean DC to do it any other way.

Also the maximum firing rate of a neuron appears to be 1KHz according to this article:

psych.athabascau.ca...

I don't see a problem with parts of the brain operating over 120Hz, but EEG data is a measured average of coherrent activity on the outside brain.

"Suppose someone found out how to send this energy out, then built a machine for it. It's already been proven that sounds effect your brainwaves, so it must be something within sound that generates the brainwaves."

Easy enough to try..

Favorite ways of messing externally messing with it..:

hemi-sync/binaural (monroe institute etc..) audio - seems to work quite well haven't tried frequencies>30Hz. Requires stereo headphones. Software for this to help you validate your theory (have the suspicion that the mechanism of induction may only support a certain frequency range)

Must get round to trying frequency modulated ultrasonics/microwaves
modulated magnetic fields (been some interesting results here that web searches will find).

You can have so much **fun** with frequencies in the normal range.

Are you only interested to try inducing frequencies over 100Hz?

Classical physics was built of the strongest stuff imaginable- the impenetrable atoms which were the basis of the physical world. The location of each of these atoms was precisely fixed in the three-demensional space of Descartes' geometry. Objectively humans are energy (the same in relations to the same atoms in the universe as a whole) . The probablitities have been written on the blackboards of mathematicians. New theories view the cosmos as an undivided whole, though they do so in very different ways. This is steeped in mythos, more studies should be done, as humans are all particals of the same universe.
For instance like the right side of the brain communicating with the left side. To program the components in parts to heal one self, from this energy seems all possible, much is still unknown. Further examples of this, if radically different, modes that have achieved success in their own spheres of endeavor are shamanism and yoga. Developing a mastery over the inner world comparable to the mastery of modern science over the outer, objective world, may be visited by siddhis, or powers, which appear to be miraculous. Reality is not limited by scientific theories, no matter how those theories might deny their experiences. Mythos of the mechanistic universe brings our attention like a searchlight onto the stage of sharply defined and casusally driven lumps of matter and the forces, fields and energies that move them.

Originally posted by uss_eldridge1943
Are you only interested to try inducing frequencies over 100Hz?

Nope. I'm interested in all of them. I'm not especially interested in those over 100Hz. The only thing that I think I'd REALLY be interested in would be alpha and delta stages.

Originally posted by uss_eldridge1943hemi-sync/binaural (monroe institute etc..) audio - seems to work quite well haven't tried frequencies>30Hz. Requires stereo headphones. Software for this to help you validate your theory (have the suspicion that the mechanism of induction may only support a certain frequency range)

Very interesting. I'm checking out BW gen right now. If anyone knows about visual stimulations to induce lower frequencies, pipe up please, what I'm trying right now (endless spirals, flashing lights) isn't very effective. I think I'll do a few web searches. Thanks for the info!

medweb.bham.ac.uk...

Ways to stimulate different stages: Olfactory, visual, auditory, somatosensory, motor cortex.

In other words: Smelling, seeing, listening, feeling, and tasting.

ourworld.compuserve.com...

Contains materials needed to create an EEG wave analyzer.

Edit: Wow, that's expensive stuff! Guess I'll just have to fiddle with laptop screens and heart rate monitors.

[edit on 13-10-2004 by waternorth]

I'd like to say a few things, not to attack, just to offer advice.

1. It's OK to argue with mods. I don't normally try to eat their guts the way I do to certain rivals, but if they're wrong (or if you think they're wrong) then fire away.

2. Disagreement, even pointed disagreement is not "close to flaming". Flaming is when you tie on a personal attack as well.

3. A lot of people around here like to hammer on incredible subjects with little or no evidence and ignore any counter-arguement. I am happy that you are not insisting on the 110+ waves, however I did cringe when you asked somebody to prove they didn't exist. That's just not how it works and I thought we all knew that.


As for the topic of mind control- I have two questions.
1. How complete do you believe mass-control can be?
2. Why just brainwaves?
In my opinion, you can't get total control over masses because it will be very hard to introduce a good suggestion even if you used frequency generators to make people more open to suggestion. Afterall, just influencing their brainwave frequency isn't going to make them do what you want. The best I think you could go for is to induce extremely strong feelings in combination with a motive. (example to follow).

The other question is why just influence brainwave frequency? I believe that using associations to force the natural generation of stress would work better.

Here's my example- suppose I owned a major media company and wanted to be sure Bush didn't get re-elected. What I'd do is make subtle changes to the colors on pictures of Bush when the picture was attatched to a bad story. I'd try to build an association between this subtle difference in colors and bad stories about Bush, then I'd introduce this color during all of Bush's own campaign commercials and during the debates.

Heya,

I'm sorry, the thread title is preeeety misleading. I'm just interested in brainwaves in general. I've reposted this in a neurology forum, without the mind control-tint to it, and it hasn't gotten any responses.

I decided to use the subject of "mind control" because it grabbed readers' attention. What do I REALLY want to know? How it effects the human mind, others' opinions on the morality of building one of these machines, then using it daily to make friends, and last but not least, effective ways to build one cheaply.

Also, sorry about the misuse of flaming. Every board I have come to has a different opinion of what is flaming and what is not flaming.