Calling All Veteran Service Members Of ATS.

reply to post by Golf66


You say he signed up knowing he would be killing people, but thats the whole point here. Killing people is a loose term, killing innocent people is completely different to killing those you are sent to fight. But these days innocent people lives taken is swept under the rug and brushed off under the term so commonly used today........."collateral damage" !
And when most logical thinking people can easily see that this "war" is an invasion, based purely on installing puppet governements to allow the rping of that countries natural resources. Remember when George W. Bush went on record as saying Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11 ? So any soldier that did sign up after 9/11 has every right to question why they were sent to Iraq in the first place [installing a puppet governemnt and oil perhaps ???], but what did that have to do with 9/11 ???
While soldiers, or "warriors" continue to blindly follow orders without question, then illeagl wars and invasions will only continue to happen, and who are the people that benefit from this, its those that profit from the newly found [stolen] resources and those that own the re-construction companies and contracts. It's a no-win situation except for those making the profit from pre-planned wars and invasions. And as i said before, a real man will walk away from that situation !
I'm sure quite a few of your soldiers signed up straight after 9/11 due to the ground swell of patriotism that swept through the US after 9/11, but the US has had more soldiers return home and committ suicide, then you've had soldiers killed in action. But rather then look into why this is happening, those soldiers probably just get dis-missed as weak minded or maybe even 'whiners' ??? Another fine way for a country to treat its "warriors" indeed !
IMO a soldier that has the courage to stand up and speak out against the very system that sends its youth to fight an illegal invasion just for their own profit and benefit is way more of a man than a soldier that goes were he/she is told, kills who he/she is told to kill and all without question and class it as "following orders".
But the US seems to keep voting in presidents that continue these wars and continue to drive your country deeper and deeper into debt, all the while people in your own country are losing their homes at a record rate, becoming bankrupt at a record rate, yet those that own the resources companies and defence re-construction sub-companies are making record profits.
You had a Vice-President in Cheney who was a major director and share-holder for Haliburton, who basically make their profits from war, and then Cheney has a huge say in deciding if the US goes to war with a country, to which his company will then heavily profit from. But somehow this isn't seen as a "conflict of interests", or even insider trading ????
I have total respect for a soldier that joins the military to defend their homeland and its citizens, BUT, the reality today is that is more often than not, NOT the reason why they have been sent to war in the first place. Wars are pre-planned, and designed for profit. Some soldiers have woken up to this [a possible explanation for this video, and even the suicide rate of returning soldiers ?], whiule others may not yet know, and others may choose to not want to know. but until they do know, the wars and profits will just continue to happen

reply to post by usmc0311



Apparently this site is for entertainment only.

Embrace Ignorance.

you know what I think?

After being threatened with a t&c violation---and a few other inconsistencies that I wont go into---I dont trust this forum at all. Know these fools by their works.

Organized resistance is a death-nell. ORGANIZED resistance--not comments on a forum ----is THE MOST FEARED by the defacto govt. If you ever read a field manual or the Art of War it should be real clear why "recruiting" isnt allowed.

I think we are way past diplomacy and every post we make gives away our position to the enemy.
Propaganda has its place in war--both sides can use it to their benefit.

but, at this point--maybe its unwise to use a public forum at all.

We want to win. Were the good guys. I say hunker down, zip it up, CYA, and get to work guerrilla style.

because this is a war on us--maybe its wise to act like it.

see now ive already said too much. I considered pm ing this to you but i figured the benifits of sharing would outway the risk. If you want to know the enemy as well as it knows you, please take the time to go over these 2 links.

AND FLAG THEM!
Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars READ
Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars LISTEN

Originally posted by Golf66

Originally posted by AussieDingus
In your opinion, he may not be a "warrior", but as we all know it takes a real man to walk away from a no-win situation, and who, other than the wealthy few are winning ???

He is an adult, presumably he was when he enlisted (I guess his parents could have signed when he was 17); if he joined after 2001 he knew he'd be going to war and that meant killing people and possibly dying. He entered into a contract that required his obedience to authority and surrender to a mission (or future missions) over which he would have zero control or input. In exchange he received (if he's a HS graduate) a more than fair compensation package for his part.

Originally posted by AussieDingus
There has been many "warriors" injured in action serving their country, yet when they return they have to fight for every cent of entitlement for the rest of their lives. That’s hardly a worthy way of a country treating its "warriors".

I have yet to meet anyone with a diagnosable and identifiable wartime injury who had to fight for VA compensation. I know some who have the less obvious type injuries PTSD to be one have some problems getting compensation. That is not what that kid was ranting about -- he was ranting about having to follow orders and hurt people and see his friends hurt. Sounds like butt-hurt to me, what did he think war was about?

Originally posted by AussieDingus
And by consuming the real air warriors need, does that include the agent orange sprayed on your own warriors by your own government ? Does that include all your warriors now suffering from Gulf war syndrome ?

Again, nothing to do with the young man's feel sorry for himself rant.

Originally posted by AussieDingus
But if those "warriors" spoke up, would they then become whiners, liberal stooges and certain parts of the female body as well ?

Speaking up is one thing - making yourself sound like some kind of victim doesn't help anyone. People on you tube don't run the VA, make law or pass out entitlements. Complain to the right people in private or sound like a wuss... Just my opinion.

He didn't make himself to be the victim, he acknowledged in the video that he did these things, but he also pointed out that those were his orders. And when you look deeper into why those orders are given, as he has no doubt done, then you can easily see that they aren't there to defend the US or its citizens, they are there for the profit and benefit of a wealthy few. And asking how a government thats trillions in debt can keep spending hundreds of million per day on a war that makes no sense other than making a select few even wealthier, isn't being a wuss, thats being logical and asking a logical question, but thats just my opinion.
You say he should "complain to the right people in private". but if he was serving under the banner of defending the US citizens and homeland, then isn't the US citizens the right people to inform considering its apparently those who he is giving his life to defend if required ? And wouldn't a video released publicly be a logical way of doing it ? And from what i saw, he was speaking at a conference, with several video cameras scattered around the room. Do we know if he released the video for personal gain, or was it released by someone who was filming from one of the many cameras seen ?
But these days it just seems easier to shoot the messager than it is to actually read the message. Just my opinion

Originally posted by AussieDingusAnd when most logical thinking people can easily see that this "war" is an invasion, based purely on installing puppet governements to allow the rping of that countries natural resources.

It's a no-win situation except for those making the profit from pre-planned wars and invasions. And as i said before, a real man will walk away from that situation !

IMO a soldier that has the courage to stand up and speak out against the very system that sends its youth to fight an illegal invasion just for their own profit and benefit is way more of a man than a soldier that goes were he/she is told, kills who he/she is told to kill and all without question and class it as "following orders".

I think I said everything about the necessity of small wars for the purpose of developing future leaders and technology for national defense here.

Originally posted by Golf66
Negative, you do not understand. The concept of national defense cannot be realized without a little national offense. To have a robust defense one must have wars in which to participate to hone the skills, train the leaders and to test the newest technology.

You see the small wars in which we engage as "aggression" and "profiteering" for the mighty military industrial complex. In a way you are correct - certainly these entities stand to gain a great deal; however, to discount the net benefit to the nation for their profiteering (that is what companies do BTW - we don't fault the fish for swimming) is akin to throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The water is dirty and no one likes having dirty water around but the baby is our future.

I (and the others in the profession of arms) see them as live fire training for our baby so that we can have competent Generals and competent Colonel's should for some reason the US mainland itself come under threat. Leaders are born in some certain sense but the tactics and techniques of modern warfare are a darn cite more complicated than the "get on line load and fire" of our minute man past. It takes a lifetime of professional schooling interspersed with some live action training (limited warfare or COIN etc.) to make a good leader.

Should we just sit around and hope the new bombs work like they did on the target dummies? Or hope that General Brown does as well with real Soldiers as he does with the flags on a map? The small military we maintain now will be but the nucleus of the larger force should we face all out threat to our nation. A Captain will find himself a LTC quickly and given a formation of draftees and newly minted LT's to execute his mission. Thank god at least he's seen someone get in a firefight before...or we'll get a lot of young men and women killed while he learns.

So perhaps pawn in a game is true maybe in a way but we certainly disagree who the chess master really is. You think it’s the military profiteers. I think they are just the Kings and Queens, they are still on the board - the real player is national defense.

It is likely we will never agree so let’s not derail this here. National defense is a very complicated thing - people spend their whole careers in its study and still get things wrong.

I doubt some arm chair generals or in my case Special Forces Major are not going to be able to get a good discussion going. What I do know is that an Army that never fights is not much of an Army at all.

All hat - no cowboy as they say where I am from...

Clearly we have a different frame of reference - let's leave it at that shall we?

reply to post by rainbowbear


If you have not already ...start....studying SUN TZU the art of wAr
To those that bash the military personnel...YOU ARE WELCOME!!!!!! MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS ARE THE REASON YOU CAN LAY YOUR HEAD DOWN AT NIGHT AND SLEEP IN PEACE!!!
We were never discharged from our oath "To defend the Constitution from enemies foriegn and domestic"
and we will defend at all costs. We are the heroes that need not be recognized because we love our countrymen to the point of laying our lives down for you. You see us, laugh at us, protest us, try to shame us...yet we still defend you and your rights, without hesitation!!!!
So without further fanfare THANK YOU MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS...........To all others YOU ARE WELCOME!!!!!

There will be a day when vets and patriots will step up and defend their country from tyranny. Vets are not terrorists. The people in DC are though.

The election this year is the most critical one ever. Be Prepared.

reply to post by PrimitiveWorld

Like the previous soldiers, you share their mindset that the nature of man makes it necessary to have wars. That war leads to peace, or at least allows you to kill the assigned amount of humans so you are allowed to go home to your family.

War does not lead to peace. War and peace are illusions. The mindset of human beings makes conflict at any level of intensity UNAVOIDABLE. Take this debate for instance. It is a conflict of low intensity. Nothing will come of it, and it's importance in the world and in the universe is negligible.

Conflicts of all kinds of intensity rage on all over the world all the time. People arguing, fighting, killing each other, countries engaged in warfare. It is the way of the world. Conflict is necessary to nature and has nothing to do with whether someone is or is not in the business of high intensity conflict.

Also, we don't have an "assigned number of humans to kill". We're there for a certain period of time and we go home... Not everyone who wears the uniform is in the business of killing either.

You guys are very similar in your mindsets, and that is why you are good soldiers. And Im sure I seem quite weird and stupid to you, because you just dont see that your actions, in the grand scheme of things, are causing a massive amount of pain for so many humans on the planet.

It's this kind of wanna-be high-brow moral indignation that irritates me about people like you. You assume that soldiers put no thought into their actions and that if we had, in your view, thought of things the way YOU want us to think then we wouldn't want to be soldiers. My job isn't to second guess the war and why our country goes to war. That is YOUR job. But since you're too lazy to do it yourself you come here expecting soldiers to "lay down their arms" in the name of some illusory "peace" that will never be realized. You are naive, and painfully so.

Originally posted by USpatriot
There will be a day when vets and patriots will step up and defend their country from tyranny. Vets are not terrorists. The people in DC are though.

The election this year is the most critical one ever. Be Prepared.

But when the options are Romney or Obama, its going to be the same thing for the next 4 years regardless of which one you guys 'vote' for. I'm not saying that Ron Paul was THE answer, but the US people had nothing to lose by taking a chnace with him. That chance was allowed to pass, and now its 4 more years of the same lies, corruption and division of the rich and poor, with the only difference being a left or right spin on the lies !

reply to post by AussieDingus


Watch the ones controlling the strings and not the ones dangling..... Our vote does not count anyway,cause the powers that be own both sides they don't care who gets elected. The GOP scammed the system in several states and zeroed out Ron Paul districts like in Maine, Arizona, Missouri, etc..... voter fraud ran rampant in the primaries just like last election cycle. In 2008 TPTB was showing the US just how powerful they are.....look at the result from their control of the media
1) A one term Senator that only serve a couple of months before running for president, beats out Hillary?
2) Hillary drops out of race after Builderburg meeting.
3) obama selects biden as a running mate? The media convinces the people that biden is a genius?
4) No questioned seriously ask to obama, like college transcripts, tax record, false social security card number, birth certificate, drug use......etc
5) his relationships to bill ayers, pastor white, the chicago mafia etc.....
6) his muslim roots while we are at war against the radical islam?
7) Questionable pay from a hospital to his wife as a salary?
8) A man that never had a real job lived in a 300,000 dollar plus house in chicago?
This just scratches the surface, but it shows how powerful the elitists are in this country...

Keep your head down and powder dry my friends.

If you guys are serious about doing something positive in trying to stop the overstepping of our Constitutional rights by the government, we really have to get together and start a class action lawsuit.

usmc0311, you said you live close to the Thomas Moor Law Center, whenever you are able, and if you can please find out how we could start this. I would call them, but in this type of situation it is better to have a face to face meeting than to do it over the phone.

We would also need to find ways to get more veterans, and other Americans to join us if they would be interested in being part of this lawsuit.

We really need to make this happen, and as soon as possible. But for what I have seen, even in these forums it seems that there is not a lot of interest in starting a class action lawsuit, which imo is the best way to try to stop what the government is doing to this nation, and to it's people.

I can't believe that I may be considered a "possible terrorist" due to my service to this country. God help us all.

Originally posted by dave_welch
I can't believe that I may be considered a "possible terrorist" due to my service to this country. God help us all.

Personally, i don't class you as a "possible terrorist". I class the "decision makers" that send people like you to fight wars that only profit and benefit a select few as the not possible, definite terrorists. What I do have a problem with, is soldiers that blindly follow ANY order and go off to fight these wars, or invasions, that do nothing but make a select few wealthier. 9/11 was given as the reason for going into Iraq, yet Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11, an admission made by George W.Bush, so any soldier that served in Iraq thinking that they were fighting the "war on terror" either got fooled, or wanted to go !
Those that got fooled, should by now have their eyes open and have a choice to continue on or to get out, those that wanted to go, have made their choice already. I believe "part of the problem, or part of the solution" is the best description i can think of to explain it. No citizen has forced any soldier to enlist, but the military hierarchy forces you to fight in wars that you may personally believe to be lacking in morals and/or ethics.
I don't put a soldier ahead of any other person that works a job for a living. Nor do i think any less of them. But the reality is, soldiers would have nothing to defend if we were all in the military, and then there would be no one working the jobs that get taxed to then fund things like the military and the wages of those serving in it.
I understand you frustration at being considered a "possible terrorist", but we who work non military jobs and see our taxes wasted on illegal wars or invasions get just as frustrated at some members of the military saying we aren't even worthy of having an opinion on wars or military matters just because we haven't "served". But i believe we are just as qualified to comment on matters such as this, and others to do with the military, because if the majority didn't work their jobs and get taxed, there would be no military or anything to defend in the first place. I think both sides of the argument need to just relax, step back, and realise we feed off each other, and the real target of the anger and frustration should be at those who decide to send soldiers to these wars, and using the taxes from its citizens that stay home and work, to fund these wars. We are ALL pawns in their sick games, but until we ALL see it and know it, the sick games will only continue !

Originally posted by AussieDingus I believe "part of the problem, or part of the solution" is the best description i can think of to explain it. No citizen has forced any soldier to enlist, but the military hierarchy forces you to fight in wars that you may personally believe to be lacking in morals and/or ethics.

You do realize that following an illegal order is...illegal also. Taking that into consideration some orders are obviously illegal - go kill those kids for instance. Most orders are not - go to Iraq and perform X mission because the Commander in Chief says it’s in the national interests of the US is not an illegal order.

Originally posted by AussieDingus
I don't put a soldier ahead of any other person that works a job for a living. Nor do i think any less of them. But the reality is, soldiers would have nothing to defend if we were all in the military, and then there would be no one working the jobs that get taxed to then fund things like the military and the wages of those serving in it.

If you expect a Soldier to take the moral high ground and quit his profession and end his source of livelyhood and income because of a mission he doesn't like or risk going to jail for not executing an order with which he disagrees then you do the same and just stop paying your taxes.

What will happen to you? Maybe go to jail, prabably at least pay a heavy fine (and the taxes after racking up lawyer fees etc.) which will affect your family's quality of life.

Same thing will happen to the Soldier for not following his rules.

Lives to live, families to feed and all that can't be done from prison. It’s a practical matter more than a moral one.

This how to isolate the enemy you wish to conquer in the eyes of the citizen. Government says your a terrorist then in the minds of the sheep today they actually believe it which makes the conquest that more easier. Now if the people started calling the government a terrorist government across this nation, you'd see for sure the swift and decisive action of the government using all of it's might to defeat those who dare stand against it. I believe with all of my soul that the day is coming in which we will be forced to defend not only our lives but act within the same manner in which those who founded this nation had to do at that time.

Different era. Same tyranny.

reply to post by USpatriot


Prepared for what? I'm a Vet and I haven't been clued in. Reality check not all Vets are republicans they come in all flavors. I served my country and proudly to be able to express my view without someone telling how to think.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Hopefully I will have a chance to get there in the next couple of weeks. One good thing is the University of Michigan is starting back upfor the year so there will be plenty of law students around. Maybe I can find a group who could make a project out of this and see where things go from there. As we have seen in this last week, things are getting worse and worse every day. The Brandon Raub case is really tearing at me right now. I would think TPTB would at least be smart enough to leave Marines alone. But, we are probably considered the biggest threat of all Veterans and they are obviously aiming to nuetralize us first and foremost. We have our local fair going on and our state rep is supposed to be there every night. I saw him tonight but he was busy with a lot of people. I would love to get a few moments of his time to discuss these issues with him. I might just throw on my uniform and walk in the parade and makie my way up and walk with him and talk if I have to. Either way my energy is going to be directed to this issue alot more as this year goes on.

Originally posted by Golf66

Originally posted by AussieDingus I believe "part of the problem, or part of the solution" is the best description i can think of to explain it. No citizen has forced any soldier to enlist, but the military hierarchy forces you to fight in wars that you may personally believe to be lacking in morals and/or ethics.

You do realize that following an illegal order is...illegal also. Taking that into consideration some orders are obviously illegal - go kill those kids for instance. Most orders are not - go to Iraq and perform X mission because the Commander in Chief says it’s in the national interests of the US is not an illegal order.

Originally posted by AussieDingus
I don't put a soldier ahead of any other person that works a job for a living. Nor do i think any less of them. But the reality is, soldiers would have nothing to defend if we were all in the military, and then there would be no one working the jobs that get taxed to then fund things like the military and the wages of those serving in it.

If you expect a Soldier to take the moral high ground and quit his profession and end his source of livelyhood and income because of a mission he doesn't like or risk going to jail for not executing an order with which he disagrees then you do the same and just stop paying your taxes.

What will happen to you? Maybe go to jail, prabably at least pay a heavy fine (and the taxes after racking up lawyer fees etc.) which will affect your family's quality of life.

Same thing will happen to the Soldier for not following his rules.

Lives to live, families to feed and all that can't be done from prison. It’s a practical matter more than a moral one.

I do realise that following an illegal order is well........illegal, the question you need to ask yourself is WHY are soldiers still serving in an illegal war, and why did they contribute to that illegal war ??? thats why i don't enlist for the military in todays world, because most wars currently being fought are illegal, and i don't want to be a criminal by contributing to it.
And I would love to stop paying my taxes that go towards fighting illegal wars, but what you don't seem to reaise is, i don't have a say in paying taxes or have an option of not paying them. My taxes are taken from my pay BEFORE i get my pay. this is completely different to a soldier williong pcking up a gun, killing innocent people all under the banner of "serving my country". Therefore your comparison makes no sense and paying or not paying taxes, which i have no say in, isn't even remotely the same as following an illegal order in an illegal war.
When i last filed my tax return, i actually said to the tax agent that i would like to claim ALL my taxes back as i don't agree with what the taxes are being spent on. the tax agents reply was to laugh, and say "yeah good luck with that." So i HAVE actually tried to do whaat you suggest and was given no chance, or choice of doing so.
The compairson you should of made was, if i don't like or agree with the job that i am employed to do, then i should leave, just as those in the militray have the option of doing. And i have once before left a job i didn't agree with, or how the company was run and how its profit were distributed. And just as no one else forced me to work in that job, no one forced any soldier to enlist, and they have exactly the same option as those not serving in the military, and that is to either stay and put up with it, or leave and do something else. Many people have had to chnge professions and career paths do to personal belief, soildiers are not different in this situation.
You say "something will happen to that soldier for not following the rules", but heres my point all along........if those rules, or oders, are illegal, then why does the military take such action, or threaten to take such action against its own soldiers for speaking up, or standing up for what they know is right ? This is how illegal wars are able to continue, because pepole are too scared to speak out against a corrupt military that will fine, jail or court marshall its own soldiers for exposing the corruption.
What amazes me is, how many people on here claim to serve in the military, but then come onto a conspricay site. To be on a conspiracy site in the first place, one must of at one stage or another realised that the official story is a lie, and that soldiers today are, sadly, nothing more than potential cannon fodder for those making the profits from those illegal wars. I do feel sorry for those soldiers because many don't have the education or intelligence to see the lies, but those that are educated and intelligent get little sympathy from me as they should have the intelligence to see through the lies.
Thanks for your opinion !

Originally posted by AussieDingus

Originally posted by Golf66

Originally posted by AussieDingusWhat amazes me is, how many people on here claim to serve in the military, but then come onto a conspricay site. To be on a conspiracy site in the first place, one must of at one stage or another realised that the official story is a lie, and that soldiers today are, sadly, nothing more than potential cannon fodder for those making the profits from those illegal wars. I do feel sorry for those soldiers because many don't have the education or intelligence to see the lies, but those that are educated and intelligent get little sympathy from me as they should have the intelligence to see through the lies.
Thanks for your opinion !

Many of us joined because we needed the job, there's not much out there for an uneducated 20 year old. Some of us couldn't afford college either, the G.I. bill takes care of that. Also, if you want to know things, what better way than in the military with a security clearance. But I digress, Very few people actually believe the government 100%. Sometimes you have to do things you don't agree with for your family, and yourself.

Originally posted by dave_welch

Originally posted by AussieDingus

Originally posted by Golf66

Originally posted by AussieDingusWhat amazes me is, how many people on here claim to serve in the military, but then come onto a conspricay site. To be on a conspiracy site in the first place, one must of at one stage or another realised that the official story is a lie, and that soldiers today are, sadly, nothing more than potential cannon fodder for those making the profits from those illegal wars. I do feel sorry for those soldiers because many don't have the education or intelligence to see the lies, but those that are educated and intelligent get little sympathy from me as they should have the intelligence to see through the lies.
Thanks for your opinion !

Many of us joined because we needed the job, there's not much out there for an uneducated 20 year old. Some of us couldn't afford college either, the G.I. bill takes care of that. Also, if you want to know things, what better way than in the military with a security clearance. But I digress, Very few people actually believe the government 100%. Sometimes you have to do things you don't agree with for your family, and yourself.

I underdstand why many joined, and it also goes along way to explaining why the military usually have their biggest amount of recruits coming from the poorest, and lowest educated area's. If these current wars were just, legal and even logical, there would be roughly an equal number of people enlisting nationwide from all areas. But when wars are unjust, illegal and have little logic, then its no wonder the majority being sent to fight these wars seem to come from the poorer areas with the lowest education levels. But you always have a choice, admittingly the choices are limited as far as career options go, but there is always still the choice to not take part and to try other avenues. I didn't join the military and also couldn't afford to go to university. I've also had to go through 3 career changes in just the last 10 years with gaps of unemployment between jobs.
And yes, joining the military and gaining a secuirty clearance would help to "know things", but i've learnt enough things about what todays military is really all about without having to enlist to find it out.

You say "sometimes you have to do things you don't agree with for your family, and yourself", but here's the thing................what if you teach you children and family about the dangers of drugs such as herion for example, but then you are sent to Afghanistan to protect one of the many poppy/opium fileds owned and run by the CIA, so it can continue on its way selling herion throughout the world, all under the banner of "the war on terror", and "protecting the USA's interests" ???? Isn't that basically saying "don't touch drugs kids, especially herion, but now daddy has to go and 'serve' over seas to protect over 90% of the worlds herion supply ??? Isn't that basically being a hypocrite [not you personally, but in general] ??? And what if you're asked to follow orders in a situation of martial law, and one of the orders you're given is to round up citizens in your own country, and some of those citizens you have to round up are your other family members and friends [or will miliatry family members be given safe haven in advance ?], would you still do what you didn't agree with, for yourself and your own military career, which ultimately was for your family, or do you go AWOL and get home to help your family ???

Maybe if more people were more honest about why they are really in the military, the sooner we would get a stop to all this "i'm serving to protect my country and its citizens" talk. The reality is, most serving today are serving because enlisting was either, the easiest, or best option to earn a paycheque due to their financial, career and/or educational options at the time. And when people are serving for a paycheque, then those paycheques have to keep coming in, and as long as that keeps happening, so do the illegal wars to help keep those paycheques coming in. If the wars stop, then all of a sudden theres not as big a need for as many soldiers, and then all of a sudden for many the paycheques stop coming in.

And then they have to make a choice, just like they did when enlisting....................circles anyone ????