The Resurrection of Jesus is historically probable

reply to post by mkmasn


Not true, there is an old testament "loophole" for fathers to pass the birthright, blessing, and inheritance to the oldest daughter if he has no sons:

Numbers 27:8:

"Therefore, tell the Israelites; If a man dies without leaving a son, you shall let his heritage pass on to his daughter."

Numbers 36:6-7:

"This is what the Lord commands with regard to the daughters of Salphahad: They may marry anyone they please, provided they marry into a clan of their ancestral tribe, so that no heritage of the Israelites will pass from one tribe to another, but all the Israelites will retain their own ancestral heritage."


Also take note of the genealogy in Matthew and you will notice a female's name, that of Ruth. Mary was of the seed of David through his son Nathan, and Joseph was if the seed of David through his son Solomon.

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
I have been reading ATS for a while but this thread encouraged me to join.

I would suggest reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins if you want to learn of the origins of religion.

We have to acknowledge that the scriptures were written hundreds of years after the supposed events and many scriptures conflicted with others. Constantine decided which scriptures would go into the bible and there are still conflictions. I would suggest that the bible is omitted as a source of evidence as it is basically a fictional book rather than recorded facts.

I don't like how you want us to use evidence to prove that there was no resurrection. There is no good proof that Jesus even existed so how are we meant to prove he was even crucified. There is no historical record of the crucifixion.

I could suggest to you the celestial teapot scenario whereby I tell you that there is a teapot orbiting somewhere between earth and mars. We both 'know' there is no teapot but you cannot prove to me that there is no teapot. By your logic that would mean that the teapot is there. In return we both 'know' that there is no god but how can I prove to you that something that isn't there isn't there?

Here is the thing though.....

I'm with ya.... Have been with ya for many years on the premise Constantine ruined our WORD of God. I've always thought he totally messed things up and caused an even more division.

If we take into account reincarnating Adam lived many times and evolved to Jesus then the Bible is truly the Inspired WORD of God.

Jesus being the logos ( word) Is our way to know God. If you believe he reincarnated to the evolving atonement then it makes sense he would Indeed help inspire his followers to write what it was he wanted them to know or remember.

Maybe he was also Enoch, Jeshua, Melchezedek, and so on all the way through time inspiring us all to know God through the Word. He may have inspired many religious texts throughout the years that are not called Bible. The three entities I mentioned above can be read and seen to be the evolving soul and or spirit of Christ, " the last Adam".

He spread the word throughout time and so we all have Gods word in the mix of our texts which would in fact make them ALL ( religious texts) somewhat Holy. I'm sure the evolved ONE would not just inspire the West. That's absurd.

All these years I have wrestled with understanding. I've believed in reincarnation but never did I think until recently to go in more depth of study to ask God if Jesus in fact incarnated through time. I have been lead down this rabbit hole and it's making more sense these days WHY Jesus HAD to do what he did.

I can now read my Bible with an understanding that these stories are the stories of mans struggles on Earth because WE were disobedient. Jesus represents all of us. He died so we ALL may have life when we make it full circle back to the Garden. Reincarnation allows us to focus on our spirit and not the flesh. It allows us to be able to focus more on our spiritual evolution rather than our physical.

For all I know we chose to come here to Earth and got trapped after being disobedient..... The human was created with the spirit but the spirit could have always been " created" waaaay before the Earth.

Just....My thoughts. :-)

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Continued...

Jesus IS THE FLAMING SWORD (adam) cast out of the Garden of Edem and yes it has been a burden. But where they speak of baptism, think reincarnation and IT ALL MAKES PERFECT AND LOGICAL SENSE! :-)

His Grace is that we will upon his return have LIFE with PEACE!

We are still rectifying the beginning. The choice to choose life over knowledge. :-)

You're taking a literal interpretation to Matthew 10:34-36. What he was telling them was the message he came bearing and the faith in him would cause their families to disown them and become their enemies, and turn them in to be imprisoned or executed for apostacy. Case in point look what happened to those who believed in him, their own families were having them stoned to death. He brought the sword of truth to cleave the wicked from the righteous and his believers died for it.

We are not rectifying the beginning, that is not for us to do, that is what Messiah will do when he restores creation to what it was before the fall in the new heaven and earth. For our part we have to make the choice, life or death that much i do agree with you on.

Broaden your mind if you want to see what I see, mine is always seeing different sides of the coin.

Jesus died, right? Why? Because of OUR disobedience. We are all in this together and we all bare crosses.

Jesus said " It's finished" because the debt had been paid, Thank God!

Our Lord was in agony with what he had to bare and he was burdened. This is still going on today with us all, do you not clearly see this?

Our choice of life or death you agree on? We don't have to choose! We already have life! When he return though there will be no more division as he will set us free with the truth! Truth= Peace. The Prince of Peace is coming.

The throne of David is upon us. :-)

If you have not read the Books of Enoch.... You may want to do so.... It's eye opening.

Originally posted by MamaJ

I can now read my Bible with an understanding that these stories are the stories of mans struggles on Earth because WE were disobedient. Jesus represents all of us. He died so we ALL may have life when we make it full circle back to the Garden. Reincarnation allows us to focus on our spirit and not the flesh. It allows us to be able to focus more on our spiritual evolution rather than our physical.

For all I know we chose to come here to Earth and got trapped after being disobedient..... The human was created with the spirit but the spirit could have always been " created" waaaay before the Earth.

Just....My thoughts. :-)

reply to post by MamaJ


I have to admit that it is quite alarming to read the uneducated thoughts of someone as clearly indoctrinated as you clearly are. I have long since given up on trying to encourage religious people to abandon religion and embrace free thinking and reality. It has become apparent to me that when children are indoctrinated (brainwashed) at a young age that disease of religion which is buried deep in their conscience is very difficult to remove. It is a shame that mankind is so arrogant ti believe that in the vastness of the universe we need a reason why we are here.

I can't tell you why we are here but I can tell you that Darwinian evolution is how we are here and certainly not any god, whichever one you chose to believe in.

Please answer this question. If Adam was the first man on earth and earth is only around 6000 years old then why have we found fossils of man that predate Adam and how do you explain dinosaur fossils that are millions of years old.

I look forward to your answer.

reply to post by GafferUK1981


Was Anthony Flew " uneducated" or not based in "reality"?

reply to post by Prezbo369


Well, that settles it.. some chick made a sign.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I apologise. Uneducated is a poor choice of words. Ignorant of their education or poorly educated ie. by religious teachers is a better statement.

But yes if Anthony Flew believed in a god it shows his ignorance towards actual evidence.

I notice you sidestepped my question. Please try answer it. Your god will help wont he?

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I have to admit that it is quite alarming to read the uneducated thoughts of someone as clearly indoctrinated as you clearly are. I have long since given up on trying to encourage religious people to abandon religion and embrace free thinking and reality. It has become apparent to me that when children are indoctrinated (brainwashed) at a young age that disease of religion which is buried deep in their conscience is very difficult to remove. It is a shame that mankind is so arrogant ti believe that in the vastness of the universe we need a reason why we are here.

I can't tell you why we are here but I can tell you that Darwinian evolution is how we are here and certainly not any god, whichever one you chose to believe in.

Please answer this question. If Adam was the first man on earth and earth is only around 6000 years old then why have we found fossils of man that predate Adam and how do you explain dinosaur fossils that are millions of years old.

I look forward to your answer.

Wow!

You insult me AND my intelligence and then ask me to reply saying you look forward to it.

I'm not going to argue with you... If you want that have a conversation with someone other than me.

First, I NEVER ON THIS SITE since I joined have said how old man is or how old the earth is.

I'm a seeker of truth whereas at a young age I began seeking.

With that said, I'm still seeking for myself.

When I find something that inspires me, I share it and so that's what Im doing now on this thread.

This thread is about Jesus being resurrected.

My resurrection of Jesus is different than yours and many others. But.... Who is right?

It's all about perception and what you have read and understood.

I'm a lover of the Essene community and believe Jesus to have been more than what the average Christian gives him credit for.

The post below mine that has a woman holding a sign is the EXACT REASON why our fathers who wrote the Bible did not allow reincarnation to be known by men. They were afraid, and rightly so.

However, we have the right to know EXACTLY what was taught by Jesus. We have the right to the truth of all truths.

Some of us though cannot handle the truth.

To each his own. Xoxox

www.rcpsych.ac.uk...

reluctant-messenger.com...

You know who Origen is/was ?

He was my favorite when I began studying over fifteen years ago and came across letters from him and to him.

The pre Christians, Essenes is where Jesus communed, taught, lived and they believed in rebirth of souls.

www.essene.org...

The Books of Enoch and so many other ancient texts speak of reincarnation.

It's really up to the reader and or experiencer to make their own conclusion.

Seek and you will find.

Don't insult my intelligence!

Eta... You have given up trying to turn everyone against The story of man? Jesus? So... We may ALL be like you?

Ugh! I'm not even going to go there.... Sweet pea, the way the essenes taught their kids is the way my parents did with me.... Find your own way they said, and I am. Don't assume I've been brainwashed. I won't even let you do that. Xoxox

Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by MamaJ

I can now read my Bible with an understanding that these stories are the stories of mans struggles on Earth because WE were disobedient. Jesus represents all of us. He died so we ALL may have life when we make it full circle back to the Garden. Reincarnation allows us to focus on our spirit and not the flesh. It allows us to be able to focus more on our spiritual evolution rather than our physical.

For all I know we chose to come here to Earth and got trapped after being disobedient..... The human was created with the spirit but the spirit could have always been " created" waaaay before the Earth.

Just....My thoughts. :-)

Some just don't have the brains to decipher....

You do what's right, because its the right thing to do.

Who's right?

WHO?

Me?

You?

Who decides?

ALL seven billion of us? Lol

reply to post by MamaJ


I know you won't argue with me because I have the evidence on my side that proves the bible to be incorrect.

I am a firm believer in accumulated knowledge. I believe that man now is far more intelligent than it was 1000,s of years ago. Every generation we learn more and disregard old thinking (ancient knowledge). Over the centuries people like Galileo, da Vinci and Einstein have raised our level of education.

Ancient text is exactly that. It is what people at that time believed, people have always had questions and science has not always had the answers so religion was created to fill the gaps. This old thinking has now been vastly superseded but certain people will not let go and pass this outdated thinking onto their children who in turn pass it into theirs.

I appreciate this thread is on the supposed resurrection. My thinking is how can the sun of god be executed if there is no god to father him.

I do apologise for the odd grammatical error but I am writing on my iPhone.

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I know you won't argue with me because I have the evidence on my side that proves the bible to be incorrect.

I am a firm believer in accumulated knowledge. I believe that man now is far more intelligent than it was 1000,s of years ago. Every generation we learn more and disregard old thinking (ancient knowledge). Over the centuries people like Galileo, da Vinci and Einstein have raised our level of education.

Ancient text is exactly that. It is what people at that time believed, people have always had questions and science has not always had the answers so religion was created to fill the gaps. This old thinking has now been vastly superseded but certain people will not let go and pass this outdated thinking onto their children who in turn pass it into theirs.

I appreciate this thread is on the supposed resurrection. My thinking is how can the sun of god be executed if there is no god to father him.

Incorrect in what way?

I don't deny the Bible has errors. I've never stated that, ever!

I don't follow the Bible per say as I do the many teachings that teaches love.

Jesus is the teacher I am totally in love with, but that doesn't mean I'm unknowing to the lies.

If you don't believe in God, that's fine with me. I wish you could see this Source with my eyes though. :-)

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
I do apologise for the odd grammatical error but I am writing on my iPhone.

I cannot stand to type on my iPhone.... It's drivesme NUTS!

I totally understand!

Why?

EXPERIENCE. :-)

reply to post by MamaJ


I do find it disturbing that an educated adult can profess to love somebody who may or may not have even existed.

You don't see anything that I don't see you fantasise about things I do not fantasise about.

If one person claims to hear voices it is called delusion but if many people claim to hear voices it is called religion.

Just on iPhone cos i'm out and about.

The bible is especially wrong in the old testament but many Christians have dismissed the old testament which is illogical but religions do tend to pick and chose what they will believe now to appear less ridiculous.

How can you be sure Christianity is the correct religion. The main three religions are abrahamic but they can't all be right and if one is right then which branch. Catholicism, orthodox Judaism, Sunni Islam ?

The fact is religion has become twisted and convoluted and is no longer needed by mankind. We're better off without it.

reply to post by GafferUK1981


Ask questions.... Dont assume dear friend!!! Lol

Im not a Christian in the sense you have been brain washed to believe in.

Oh no... Im not!!!

Who I Am is not for you to judge either. :-)

Im just a plain ole seeker who seeks on my own and who believes in Jesus as the First and Last Adam.

If you dont im not a one to try and shove my own personal opinion down your throat or insult your intelligence.

Ask questions to learn whats in my heart. Dont assume.

reply to post by MamaJ


Please can you teach me more about Adam

reply to post by GafferUK1981


Awe! :-)

I can teach you what I consider to be Adam, shall I go further?

If so, you will be looking out of my eyes, not yours.

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I know you won't argue with me because I have the evidence on my side that proves the bible to be incorrect.

I am a firm believer in accumulated knowledge. I believe that man now is far more intelligent than it was 1000,s of years ago. Every generation we learn more and disregard old thinking (ancient knowledge). Over the centuries people like Galileo, da Vinci and Einstein have raised our level of education.

Ancient text is exactly that. It is what people at that time believed, people have always had questions and science has not always had the answers so religion was created to fill the gaps. This old thinking has now been vastly superseded but certain people will not let go and pass this outdated thinking onto their children who in turn pass it into theirs.

I appreciate this thread is on the supposed resurrection. My thinking is how can the sun of god be executed if there is no god to father him.

Just because the bible is fallible doesn't prove God's nonexistence. Man, wrote the bible, not God. Man is fallible, as we see by your logic in assuming there is no God because one thing in the bible you've found to be incorrect.