Who are these people on the new world?

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posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 06:59 PM
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Hello ATS people.
This is my first attempt in making a thread and I have not seen this particular question asked nor answered. Bear with me on this and will try to ask you for the answer to this puzzle.

Reading from the 1611 KJV bible and the book of Revelations –
Revelations 21:1, 2 -- And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Now the entire 21st and 22 nd chapters are devoted to this new city of God and it would be too lengthy for me to copy it here. As you read the entire 21st and 22 nd chapters you come to the end of the book and as you read the 14th and 15th verses of the 22 nd chapter’s final description of the new Jerusalem you can read that outside of the gates of this city of God are dogs and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and liars.

Revelations 22: 14 ,15 -- Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Now how can this be? The human race has all died and this earth has passed away and everything is thought to be celestial. Yet outside of this brand new city of God and on a brand new earth we have the same ole thing that we have now. And yet there are people who are allowed to leave the city and re- enter the city. Where did all of these bad people come from that live outside the city? Why are they there?

Then I read the book of Isaiah.

Isaiah 65: 17,18 -- For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

The 65th chapter of Isaiah verses 17th to the 25th -- . Isaiah says the same thing that Rev. says with some more information. concerning this puzzle. The Isaiah scroll tells us that there will be a new heaven and earth just like Rev. tells us. It then tells us that there will be children who live outside the city who will live up to 100 years of age and then die. I assume that as these kids grow up some will sin just as Rev. describes the sinners who live outside the city.

Who are these people who live outside the city and why are they there? I assume at this point in Rev. and Isaiah that everyone is celestial except for those who live outside the New Jerusalem. That would explain why there are guarded gates to the city and why the children are given 100 years of life. The people outside must have to become celestial and I assume that in order to become celestial one must die and be judged worthy to enter the gates and eat of the trees of life and the waters of life.

Now I do have my own ideas for this mystery but need your input also. The entire mystery is not taught in the Christian circles and I have never heard a clergy expound this. Remember that both the Hebrew and Christian bibles agree as to the new heaven and new earth and the New Jerusalem and that there are flesh and blood people who live outside the New Jerusalem. Would like some serious comments on this but hold off on name calling or bantering among us. I realize that many of us use different bibles and that some bibles do not agree one with the other. That is why I said from the onset that I use the 1611 KJV and have checked this version with the 1560 Geneva Bible. Both are in agreement.

Is there a conspiracy here in the Christian clergy? Why would the churches not want to tell the people all about the new heaven and new earth that is promised in their scriptures? Would it be because those who are in power do not understand or is it that they do not want you to know the truth? What do you think?




posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by Seede
 

I don't think they understand. For staters, the Spirit and Bride in Revelations offers what can only be considered an all-inclusive NON-coersive living water (which is the flow of eternal life). How much of the church is offering that, one wonders..

Regarding this celestial city, imagine if you will that in the fullness of creation as an eternal cosmic evolutionary process, there is man, even as the last, or most recent, and thus the crowning glory of creation, man in first a fallen state, and then in a resurrected, enlightened state as intended or man as the revelation of the sons of God within the context and framwork of a new creation, which is the new man patterned in the image and likeness of Christ as the son of man / son of God..

Without man in his proper place and stature, the whole of creation groans in travail as if in birth pangs for this realization, so that the circle may be joined and the creation made as one, as intended.

Thus, the city represents the "joining of the circle" of a celestial or even a cosmic "sphere" or heavenly household, where in the city are the sons and daughters of God, among other creatures high and low, and outside the city, those who pratice things that are abominable to God, like magic arts, and sexual immorality, muderers, liars, and the fearful (cowards).

To get a glimps of "the city" take a look at the Hubble Ultra Deep Space imagery, and the latest findings on Galactic clusters etc. and there's your city, and it's BIG. In Revelation the measuring of this city must be interpreted as involving the Phi Ratio of proportion, which describes a depth and breadth of cosmological proportion.

The "new creation" is the enlightened human being by the light of the Lamb of God, so it's a change in perception and in man's interpretation and experience of reality itself. imho.

S&F - good inquiry!


edit on 15-8-2012 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 10:05 PM
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For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

This is of course, after the millennial reign, and it is commonly accepted that these people are they who have been thrown into the lake of fire. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just what is commonly believed among Christians.

The verses in Isaiah 65 are speaking of two events or times at once. 17 refers to a time after the millennial reign of Christ. Verses 18-25, refer to the millennial reign of Christ. Longevity will be greatly increased during that time, for example

"Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed
NIV(for clarity.)
edit on 8/15/2012 by Klassified because: correction and eta



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by Seede
 


I agree with Klassified.

Sometimes it's hard to tell in the Bible where it's referring to the "New Jerusalem" or the way Jerusalem will be during the time of Christ's Millennial reign here on earth, which takes place right before the "New Jerusalem" comes down from Heaven.

Here are some tips in telling the difference.

If any of the verses talk about people "multiplying", it has to do with the Millennium period on earth.

Ezekiel 37:26

26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

Sometimes this can be confusing because Ezekiel mentions several times about "for ever" and for evermore". This is because the New Jerusalem comes down after the Millennial reign and judgement day. There will be no separation between the people and God during or after this time.

Secondly, if it talks about anyone being old or dying, it has to do with the Millennium. No one dies after the New Jerusalem is sent down and no one ages. For all will be given new heavenly bodies in order to live in the New Jerusalem, after the Millennium is over.

Zechariah 8:3-5

3 Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.

4 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.

5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.

Lastly, if there is any talk of a "tabernacle" being in Jerusalem, it will be during the Millennial period. The New Jerusalem will have no need for a tabernacle. The entire city of the New Jerusalem will be the tabernacle.

I hope that helps.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by Seede
 


[color=gold]

When I read these scriptures to 1 it seems like there WILL be some kind of separation between energies within humanity. The New HEAVEN New EA*RTH seems to be related to *ANU* presence
(SONs CAME now maybe THE WILL) in the ABOVE and BELOW REALMS of EXISTENCE of this EA*RTH region. What I mean is it may be as simple as SOME going/ASCENDING into the HIGHER DIMENSION 5th or higher dimension BASE/PLANET/ Like a NIBIRU
if YOU think its real
, but can MOVE back and forth from there to the REGION where SOME who HAVE NOT ascended REMAINED recaptured into NEW SOUL MATERIAL (under a new overlord) w/ 100 years to get it right to ASCEND to the HEAVENS or NEW Jerusalem which may be similar to NEW CELESTIAL(s) addition(s) to this region of EA*RTH possible EA*RTH being reprocessed and a new realm planet brought in for those who have ASCENDED into the LOWER 4th dimension to EXIST upon. ALSO 100 years may be more then that especially when considering now planet rotations around a possible NEW STAR or rearranged around SOL.

NAMASTE
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by Seede
 


of there is calamity on earth,,,, the shelters the elites have prepared is this new city of god,,.,. the earth may be charred and in ruin.,,,. the people not privy to food stocks and shelters will be outside living in a chaotic wasteland,, not allowed to enter the cities,,


"Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed"


and then this is probably about the technology the elites will discover by that time,, so that when the terror ceases, and it is time to come out from hiding,,, or maybe even must stay hiding in their holy city for a while,.,. the technology they have, will allow infants with problems who may only usually live for a few days,, by some atomic gene replacement technology or something they will be able to cure them,,, and same,, using technology to cure old age.,.,., this is why they worship lucifer..,,. who is the god of light,.,. who can possibly be related to prometheus,,, in that it is the fiery intellect which brought man technology,,..,



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by Seede
 


Is there a conspiracy here in the Christian clergy? Why would the churches not want to tell the people all about the new heaven and new earth that is promised in their scriptures? Would it be because those who are in power do not understand or is it that they do not want you to know the truth? What do you think?

*Disclaimer* Channeled Intel here.

I too was shown a new world, and told a few things about the process. Earth, like everything else in the Universe, follows a cycle of about 250,000 years, give or take. Being a school for Spirits in training, Mother Earth is more than used to humankind's trash, weapons, and nasty stuff they leave every time. We are3 now living in the 5th world, 4 times before humankind has destroyed planet Earth. Sadly, they have destroyed it this time too, I doubt if even ET could fix what we have done.

The New World will be our home while Earth regains her homeostasis and is able to again support complex life forms. New Earth is considerably smaller that our present home, and this is why many young, and emotion driven Souls will be recycled into new Soul material, neutralized, of course. Mother Earth will recreate herself in just 6 days and nights. But it will take over 1000 Earth years before Earth is again livable.

The way I understand life on the new world is that it is a 5th dimensional world. In this dimension, the delay between wanting something and having it is gone, every wish is instantaneous - think of a Coke, one will appear in your hand, ready to drink. Finished? Release the bottle, it fades away into nothing. A few who ascend to this world will not make it through, I am thinking. Spirits are fickle, and there may be conflicts. Manifest a gun and shoot someone, you go back to recycling immediately.

"Heaven," and the whole concept of Heaven is a place for the Dead to live while they await reincarnation, or rest eternally, some in the world of the Dead do not ever leave, even there workers and care givers are needed. I suppose the new Heaven will be an upgrade of sorts. As I understand it, "Heaven," or the Land of the Dead, or the 4th dimension is a direst reflection of present day Earth, only without all the pollution and trash. Everything is pristine and new. Shiny new, like gold. Get the analogy here?

Thanks for listening. I know many of you look down on channeling, and many do not even believe in Spirits, ETs, or much of anything else. This is not for you to flame and ridicule, it is for those who wish to know.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 10:08 AM
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TextThis is of course, after the millennial reign, and it is commonly accepted that these people are they who have been thrown into the lake of fire. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just what is commonly believed among Christians.
reply to post by Klassified
 


Klassified

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

All souls who are judged unworthy are cast into this lake of fire. Verse 10 says that it is forever for the devil, beast, and false prophet and I assume that this applies to the all of the other souls who met the same fate.

Then how would you explain this verse?
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

---------------------------------------------

You also wrote -- The verses in Isaiah 65 are speaking of two events or times at once. 17 refers to a time after the millennial reign of Christ. Verses 18-25, refer to the millennial reign of Christ. Longevity will be greatly increased during that time, for example

The New Jerusalem does not come down upon this present earth. It comes down upon the new earth after the millennial reign. The Millennial reign only applies to our present earth. You say that verses 18-25 refers to the millennial reign and yet verses 18 and 19 refer to the New Jerusalem and verses 20-25 continue in the New Jerusalem. Therefore verses 17-25 must be a complete thought subject. It can't be the millennial reign. The entire thought must start with verse 17 which is the new heaven and earth. Do you Agree?



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by Seede
 




Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

How would I explain this verse in relation to what? I'm not following your logic, I guess. The above verse refers to those who will live in the New Jerusalem on the new Earth. They will be able to enter the city at will, and eat from the tree of life.


The New Jerusalem does not come down upon this present earth. It comes down upon the new earth after the millennial reign.

Correct.


The Millennial reign only applies to our present earth.

Correct.


Therefore verses 17-25 must be a complete thought subject. It can't be the millennial reign. The entire thought must start with verse 17 which is the new heaven and earth. Do you Agree?

I agree that we are not the first to see it differently. I've heard these verses debated before. To me, the very description in verses 18-25 must of necessity be the 1000 year reign. I think Deetermined laid out some good pointers for telling the difference. Christ comes to set things in order, and during his thousand year reign, mortals will still be here with extended life spans. The new earth, and new jerusalem will not contain any mortals. All will be finished, and eternity begins, so to speak. This is key. Descriptions that contain mortality, are millennial.

This is a topic that could be debated all day long with no real resolution. Which is why I usually try to stick with the prevalent views. There are many less mainstream views, but most of them, in my opinion, rely too much on doxtrine rather than scripture.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by Seede
 


I understand what you are saying, but let's look at these verses again.

Isaiah 65:17-23

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.

I think the keyword in these verses is the word, BUT, in verse 18.

The Lord is saying that there will come a time when there's a new heaven and earth, BUT to rejoice also in all that he created, which is a greater Jerusalem here on earth that they've never known before.

Here they will build their own houses and plant their own vineyards. (Not needed in the New Jerusalem, for God is the one who prepared the New Jerusalem.)

Notice how the Lord tells them that they will "long enjoy the works of their hands" and that "they shall not labour in vain".

This is reminding them even though the old earth won't be remembered when the new earth comes along, their works and their labour during the time of the Millennium will not go unnoticed or be in vain.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 01:23 PM
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TextHow would I explain this verse in relation to what? I'm not following your logic, I guess. The above verse refers to those who will live in the New Jerusalem on the new Earth. They will be able to enter the city at will, and eat from the tree of life.


Thanks for helping me on this Klassified
It was my fault for not being clear. What I meant by this is -- You suggested that the bad people who are outside New Jerusalem are in a lake of fire. If there is a lake of fire (whatever that is) and all unworthy souls are cast into this place forever along with the devil, beast, and false prophet then who is it that John says if they obey God's commands they are allowed to enter the city? In other words if all the good people are in the city and the bad people are outside the city then who are the ones that Rev 22:14 says "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city?"

Back to Isaiah - Suppose we eliminate verse 17 of our discussion for the time being we will put that out of the conversation. Lets now concentrate on verses 18-25 - You suggested that verses 18-25 are referencing the millennium. That may be my problem in understanding those verses. Verses 18-25 tells me that God is creating a new place called New Jerusalem and describes the things pertaining to this new creation. He is not referencing this present Jerusalem on this present earth and clearly states that it is the new Jerusalem. The New Jerusalem is not shown on this present day earth and is not shown in the millennium. God shows that the new Jerusalem is given only after this earth and all of this creation is destroyed. Am I wrong?



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by Seede
 

I think Deetermined just answered the question as well as I could.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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There are no people outside the City.
The way to take the last couple of chapters of Revelation is to understand that "the City" is now everything there is.
So "outside the City" = "non-existent".
Evildoers cannot be continuing to live "outside the City", because they have already been "thrown into the lake of fire" in ch20- which is another way of saying that they have ceased to exist.
The inhabitants of the City are those "whose names have been written in the book of life".
Those who are "allowed to enter the city" are not a different group- they are the inhabitants again. "Entering the City" just means becoming part of it. We are not meant to understand that they are living outside and going in and out.
For the last two chapters of Revelation, there is only one place - the City- where people are living, and only one group of people living there.



edit on 16-8-2012 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by Seede

He is not referencing this present Jerusalem on this present earth and clearly states that it is the new Jerusalem. The New Jerusalem is not shown on this present day earth and is not shown in the millennium. God shows that the new Jerusalem is given only after this earth and all of this creation is destroyed. Am I wrong?


Yes, the Millennial reign will take place from the "present (current) Jerusalem". As far as I can tell, the New Jerusalem is always referenced as the "NEW Jerusalem" and any other reference is the current Jerusalem.

The purpose for the Millennium in the first place is for God to fulfill his promise to the Jews here on earth, not just in the New Jerusalem. Otherwise, we wouldn't even need a Millennium period. It is purely for the purpose of fulfilling God's earthly promises to the Jews. (The promise was that God would allow them to inherit and live in the land that he promised them in peace and safety.)

Those who keep God's commandments through the Millennium will be the ones who enter into the gates of the New Jerusalem.
edit on 16-8-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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TextI think the keyword in these verses is the word, BUT, in verse 18.
reply to post by Deetermined
 


Thank you Deetermined for your input

Looking at the Jewish Publication Society Bible (1988 edition). I assume it is translated from the Masoretic Text because it says it is translated from the Traditional Hebrew Text. Any way here is a portion of our discussion.
Space ------------ start of thought ------------------
For behold ! I am creating
A new heaven and a new earth;
The former things shall not be remembered,
They shall never come to mind.
Be glad then, and rejoice forever
In what I am creating.
For I shall create Jerusalem a joy,
And her people a delight;
And I will rejoice in Jerusalem
And delight in her people.
Never again shall be heard there
The sounds of weeping and wailing.
No more shall there be an infant or graybeard
Who does not live out his days.
He who dies at a hundred years
Shall be reckoned a youth,
And he who fails to reach a hundred
Shall be reckoned accursed

That was from our verses 17-20 - The Hebrew manuscripts do not have verses and reads by thought pattern. Maybe that is why there is so much controversy in this understanding. The word "but" which is shown in our verse 18 is not shown here in this Jewish Bible. Also I notice that the Jewish rendition says --
Be glad then, and rejoice forever
In what I am creating.
For I shall create Jerusalem a joy,

Does that tell the reader that God is going to create a new Jerusalem and that He is in the process of creating this New Jerusalem on a new world with New heaven? What do you think?



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by Seede
 




Does that tell the reader that God is going to create a new Jerusalem and that He is in the process of creating this New Jerusalem on a new world with New heaven? What do you think?


Absolutely. God is going to create a New Jerusalem and it's going to exist on the new earth.

The only thing is, we know that there will be no more death once the New Jerusalem is sent down from Heaven. Death will have been done away with based on the verses below, so any time we see verses pertaining to death, we know it can't be related to the New Jerusalem.

First we have the Millennial reign, then judgement, and finally the New Jerusalem. Death is done away with at the Great White Throne Judgement.

Revelation 20:13-14

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 10:25 AM
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TextThe only thing is, we know that there will be no more death once the New Jerusalem is sent down from Heaven. Death will have been done away with based on the verses below, so any time we see verses pertaining to death, we know it can't be related to the New Jerusalem.
reply to post by Deetermined
 


Deetermined

For years I thought the same as you have explained in your above quote. Years ago I re read the story of Jesus' friend Lazarus and how he had died . But then I started to question myself and ask was Lazarus dead and resurrected or was he dead and restored. The reason I bring this up is that I believe you hit the nail on the head as you explained that the New Jerusalem can not allow death. So lets put New Jerusalem on hold for awhile and concentrate on this death thing.

My understanding of death is that once you die and then are judged then that is the finality of this life. Hebrews 9:27 says that "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" - So once you are judged You are either rejected or resurrected into everlasting life. Now Lazarus was never judged in this account because if he had been judged he would have either been in Abraham's Bosom or hell. The kingdom of heaven had not as yet been established at this time. The kingdom of heaven was established after the death of Jesus.

At the time of Jesus it was the belief of the Hebrews that the nation was collectively saved in the earth in a place called Sheol and within Sheol were compartments of sorts where all people were kept. Among these compartments was one called Abraham's Bosom There was no resurrection at this time. All of the dead were naked souls. In other words they were not resurrected into celestial souls at this time. They were judged and placed into either a place of torment or a place of comfort but were not allowed into the celestial heaven as yet.

This belief was in that day when Jesus called Lazarus from the sleep that he was in. If you re read the story you will note that Jesus told his disciples that Lazarus was asleep and they did not understand what Jesus meant. Then to put it in their understanding He finally told them that Lazarus was dead. Now through all of this I came to my own understanding that Lazarus was restored to his former state and was not judged as yet, But where was Lazarus if he was not in Sheol? My conclusion was that Lazarus was asleep in Jesus. Some call it limbo or whatever. I really don't know. This is all my own understanding.

What has this to do with New Jerusalem? If New Jerusalem comes down to the new world it still remains New Jerusalem which is the city proper. The new earth is not the city of New Jerusalem. We see that in Revelations. Only the righteous can enter New Jerusalem which I believe to be the kingdom of heaven today. Nevertheless if I am correct then you are absolutely correct when yo say that death cannot enter New Jerusalem. Isaiah tells us that there are people outside the city who will build and plant and live and die but he does not say that this is in the gated and guarded city. The difference here is that you believe that this pertains to our present Jerusalem while I believe it pertains to the celestial New Jerusalem.

I could very well be wrong and that is why I am confused. Why couldn't God restore people to their former state and put them on the new world? He did it to Lazarus. If people have perished and are not as yet judged, then why could they not be restored such as Lazarus was restored? This leads me into the direction of the mentally challenged or infants that are murdered and unaccountable or perhaps even the aborted etc-- Could these be restored and given the chance the same as you and I have? These are just some thoughts I have from talking to you. What do you think? Could Isaiah and John both be telling us the same thing?



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 07:03 PM
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Everybody is going to die some day. That is a fact. What do you think happens to you when you die? Do you lose consciousness and rot in the ground till a day of resurrection happens? Are you then restored to your original body of flesh and blood and then face a judgment? If you believe that then tell me what happens after you are judged?

Did you know that most people including Christians will not face that or even discuss it? And when they do discuss that question it is mostly on a death bed. Did you also know that Christianity itself holds many different opinions on that subject and that some Christians even deny that there is a hell?

There are even some Christians who deny that Jesus was the only begotten Son of God. There are others who insist that God is complete love and that He would not punish anyone with an eternity of discomfort. Then there are others who insist that Jesus was just another angel that had a job to do. Whatever the truth is, why is Christianity so divided and how can people get on the same page (so to speak)?



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by Seede
Whatever the truth is, why is Christianity so divided and how can people get on the same page (so to speak)?

Just turn to the last page of the Bible, and have mercy on all the stupid Christians who are afraid to do that (waiting first for all the death and destruction to reign down upon us all).

edit on 18-8-2012 by NewAgeMan because: typo



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by Seede
 




Isaiah tells us that there are people outside the city who will build and plant and live and die but he does not say that this is in the gated and guarded city. The difference here is that you believe that this pertains to our present Jerusalem while I believe it pertains to the celestial New Jerusalem.

I could very well be wrong and that is why I am confused. Why couldn't God restore people to their former state and put them on the new world? He did it to Lazarus. If people have perished and are not as yet judged, then why could they not be restored such as Lazarus was restored? This leads me into the direction of the mentally challenged or infants that are murdered and unaccountable or perhaps even the aborted etc-- Could these be restored and given the chance the same as you and I have? These are just some thoughts I have from talking to you. What do you think? Could Isaiah and John both be telling us the same thing?


All very good questions that's going to require some more study on my part as well.

I'm still trying to figure out specific details regarding the Millennium and who all will be brought into it.

Something tells me it's also going to require more study regarding the "third heaven" as well as "paradise" in the Bible.

2 Corinthians 12:2-4

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
edit on 18-8-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)





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