Which Came First? Scientific Axioms or Biblical Axioms of Truth? Which one changes?

An axiom is a belief based on what is evident from what can be observed, but cannot have a proof. Science understands that its entire foundation is based on ever-changing axioms. When evidence is revised, what is evident must be revised. Biblical Scripture is based on information that does not change. From the standpoint of the Bible, we are speaking of a view that predates science by a few millenia. For the Bible to be true, any aspect that is related to the Creation of the quantum mechanical universe must dictate the laws of physics, the property of light and the mechanics of wave function as seen by the curvature of time and space.

The differences between Euclidean and Non-Euclidean geometry are axioms that demonstrate a great deal of dissonance between other areas of mathematics. Philosophy is needed to grasp the implications of knowledge from one dimension to the other. Mathematics is shown to be lacking as an axiomatic standard because every proof in one dimension has an exception in the dimension above. Straight lines are observed, but curved space is reality. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line, but only by context.

As demonstrated in THIS THREAD, our axioms caused us to misread Genesis 1. When time dilation, gravitational mass and the expansion of the universe is considered, Genesis 1 reads clearly. Genesis 1 is not told by our perspective of a straight line (Arrow of Time), but by God's in a curve. The video in the thread is extraordinary.

From a Bible standpoint, the Word of God has continued to demonstrate that our own misconceptions and changing axioms of science demonstrate that science is coming closer to what is recorded in scripture, not the other way around. One is ever-changing and the other is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

For instance, when did we discover that reality was made up of light quanta projected by dimension in the form of Time, Space, Matter and Energy? Within the last 100 years. Einstein noticed this. The Bible:

Genesis 1:1

In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

When did science notice that our universe is parallel to another?

As stated by Paul Dirac's relativistic quantum mechanical wave equation, our universe is parallel to another universe in opposite. Our matter is anti-matter to this mirrored universe. The event horizon between these two universes represents the projection point of both.

The Bible was there 2000 years ago.

Matthew 18:18
"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

How do we bind here? Why is is bound in Heaven? It's called collapsing wave function and it is how we pull indeterminate probable outcomes from the fifth dimension into the fourth to make a choice. What happens here happens there to our soul. How does this image suggested by Dirac work?

1 Corinthians 15:

50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

First thing to notice is that flesh (matter) cannot exist on the other side of the image. Why? Dirac pointed out that we are matter and the event horizon is anti-matter.

Second, when you look in a mirror, do you see yourself? No, you see the image you project. Where are you now?

Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

God created an image of Heaven in Time, Space, Matter and Energy. He said that the Trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Light is Particle, Wave and Consciousness. You are matter, both particle and wave, and consciousness. The Trinity of God is God's image here. Are you THE image? No. The real you is on the other side and everything you bind here is bound in heaven. Loose it here and it is loosed in heaven. That's where you are now, although your consciousness is in the image. God's consciousness is on both sides.

1 Corinthians 13

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

What was the first image God created?

1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Why does the Son bind everything together? I'll answer this two ways. First, the hidden secret of why DNA is information and Christ is the Wave of light and also the WORD that is DNA as a reflection of the INFORMATION in LIGHT. Light is Particle, Information (Wave/Word) and Consciousness. Second, I will show you science saying that ENERGY is information. Do you know what the true definition of Emotion is? Energy in Motion.

Before you question the facts and axioms in science, see that God was there first. Word created everything and the latest in cutting edge axioms says the SAME thing. Who was there first?

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

Bro, science is a serious of corrected mistakes. God does not make mistakes. So you know where I stand.. Peace and Love to ya!! - Susan

Impressive synthesis,

The authors (maybe not a fair description, scribes may fit better) of the Bible were clearly superior thinkers in all matters related to the human existence. Perhaps they understood science as well as any today, but the public lacked the vocabulary and philosophical training to understand concepts?

Throughout history the same lineage has been building up the masses to increase capability of receiving divine wisdom...

Most of the European aristocracy is directly traceable to Biblical times, as a matter of fact many claim in some way to be directly descended from David, son of Jesse and of the House of Judah.

From scotlandroyalty.org

Edinburgh, Scotland is considered an important location in freemasonry, possibly the location of origin.

Here is a link tracing biblical lineage to the British royal family: jesusevidence.org

Scientific advancement has largely been a product of the Western aristocracy, which traces itself to Bible families...

Providing a constant influx of ideas to stretch the mind of the commoner, in the context of axiom stability, with the goal of creating a global society of superior paradigms, which is to ultimately be presided over by Messiah.


Paradigm Shifts

Wow. Never looked at it this way. It was in front of me all along. S&F.

I think religion is the result of early man not being able to work things out properly .. science is a long long process of theory and testing.. science begins the moment you're born .. so in that regard I think science comes first... but religion is born from the inability to rationalize and answer... it's putty to fill in the lack of knowledge.... to explain what is not yet known.. which has proven time and time again to be mans greatest weakness.. we HATE not knowing things.. so in history we've invented answers, made up deities.. sun God "Ra" ring a bell? ... there have been NUMEROUS Gods for NUMEROUS things... and yet everyone thinks their God IS the right one.. you can't all be right..

Why does the sun rise and fall? .. you can't just know that from watching the sky, science takes lots of observation and theorizing and testing ..... religion offers a very cop-out sort of short cut.. why does it rise and fall? God commanded it so ... where did we come from? God created us ... there's no intelligence involved in accepting religion as the answer for all the things you don't understand..

And as time goes on.. the amount of things that science understands grows.. and the religious sphere shrinks..

It amazes me how arrogant religion can be.. with so many of them in the world, and so many deities.. many think their God is it and if you don't believe in their chosen God.. well you're doomed.... so who's right can you prove it? ... you might find yourself facing up to Zeus in the afterlife and thinking .. "Damn! ... "

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Let me start by saying that I am not an expert in Quantum Physics. I am only a recreational hobbyist.

A wise man I know once told me that ..."When they ever get down to finding out the fundamentals of quantum particles, the will discover they are made of light."

I actually disagreed with him and said "Vibration is the key. A quantum particle can exist, yet without vibration, it will never affect anything around it."

I really like your presentation of these things working together.
I have read your post twice now; I need a third or even fourth time in order for my brain to fully grasp what you have posted.

Thanks for the kick in my brain's ass.
Keep up the good work.

reply to post by miniatus


Mark 8:36 KJV responds to your reply, best...

"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

Science will never be able to preserve you for infinity...I beg to differ, as well. As the OP clearly shows, the more science understands, the more the Bible makes Perfect sense...

The best version is linked in my signature. Check all the articles, but the one on my theory of existence covers what God leaves behind as clues. I simply notice.

Originally posted by tvtexan
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Let me start by saying that I am not an expert in Quantum Physics. I am only a recreational hobbyist.

A wise man I know once told me that ..."When they ever get down to finding out the fundamentals of quantum particles, the will discover they are made of light."

I actually disagreed with him and said "Vibration is the key. A quantum particle can exist, yet without vibration, it will never affect anything around it."

I really like your presentation of these things working together.
I have read your post twice now; I need a third or even fourth time in order for my brain to fully grasp what you have posted.

Thanks for the kick in my brain's ass.
Keep up the good work.

edit on 15-8-2012 by tvtexan because: (no reason given)

reply to post by miniatus



Could be, but science and religion are mirrors of right and left brain; sperm and egg; sun and moon and hydrogen, possessing both positive and negative in equal states, but no neutron. This is important. God is the Neutral, possessing no evil. In the Divine Trinity, we see the Son appear. All elements have proton, electron and neutron. The neutral in the middle represents the spirit between. We might make the case that evolution caused a dynamic program of interrelated purpose and irreducible dependence. We would be wrong. The simplest answer is the best. The Bible has been there through thick and tin with the right answers. The Enigma screams for us to pay attention. Faith is the only way to collapse the indeterminate and make it determinate. To be bound and determined is to have the faith to collapse the wave of salvation. The Word of God is the WAVE! See this thread. LINK

Religion IS ignorant. You are correct. The Bible is not religion. It is the testament of God for us to collapse the wave as we ride it. We see time and tomorrow as something we create. In a sense, this is only true for our own locality. The proper understanding of being inside an image of time, space, matter and energy is to understand that we are nonlocal. We are not here. When you look in a mirror, you are not seeing you. You see the reflection that light reveals of you from your word. DNA expressed you, but your consciousness is not you. DNA expressed a 75 foot oak tree from an acorn, but neither the acorn or the oak tree are anything but word expressed as an archetype that reflects light. It's a painted surface as Buddha and Rumi said. We are the ox pulling the wheel and the cart. The body is the cart and the wheel is the circle of life from birth to rebirth. This is not the last union or womb.

Sperm and egg came together. The baby developed in the Amnion. When it was born from the water (Amniotic fluid), it had a caul over it's face. The Amnion is the veil and it is the archetype for the veil over our mind. Amnesia is the same root word. Amnion makes another related word form the root that is Lamb, as in the wool pulled over the eyes as the Shepherd sheers the sheep. He pulls the wool over our eyes because the eventual goal is to have whitened wool. Sin must be cut away. The other related word is cloud, as in an overshadowing cover for light to be defused. Why? Too much light and too much water is not good for a growing plant. The cloud that overshadows us is also evil.

Cloud is the word nephelē. It also derives the word Nephilim, a cloud of evil spirits covering the people. This usage was shown in the book of Enoch 1 to describe the Evil Beings that corrupted Mankind. The cloud was the same as the one in Jude 1 and Enoch to describe Jesus coming in the clouds with an army of angels to rescue mankind.

When it says Jesus is coming in the clouds in Revelation 1, why do the people mourn? For the first century generation that pierced Christ, the answer is obvious. For the rest of us, we realize that our sin was paid by the one that comes to remove the covering from us. The word Cloud denotes a complete covering that shrouds the land from the light. Clouds also defuse light to keep the earth protected. The Earth is our womb. There are many analogies in this symbolism when we see the connection. Faith is not fact because we cannot see beyond the veil.

The wool is taken away for our own good. It is returned white as show. We do not do this. Christ does. The wool is what covers us. Our body covers us. Will we receive a new body? Yes. Faith is the evidence of this by the story that matches what science reveals. Linguistics also reveals. What doesn't reveal this? Nothing. No, nothing is something. I wrote a book. Did that book exist before I wrote it? Yes. It was word in my mind that then become a page someone could collapse into thought.

Originally posted by seeknoevil
Bro, science is a serious of corrected mistakes. God does not make mistakes. So you know where I stand.. Peace and Love to ya!! - Susan

You stand with illiteracy. Seriesly. ;-)

As to the OP, you are seriously reaching here! Science is self-correcting. Biblical literature is not science. What part of that don't you get?

Originally posted by BagBing

Originally posted by seeknoevil
Bro, science is a serious of corrected mistakes. God does not make mistakes. So you know where I stand.. Peace and Love to ya!! - Susan

You stand with illiteracy. Seriesly. ;-)

I hope you were joking.
You mock illiteracy and then mis-spell the very next word?

Originally posted by GoOfYFoOt

Originally posted by BagBing

Originally posted by seeknoevil
Bro, science is a serious of corrected mistakes. God does not make mistakes. So you know where I stand.. Peace and Love to ya!! - Susan

You stand with illiteracy. Seriesly. ;-)

I hope you were joking.
You mock illiteracy and then mis-spell the very next word?

Look up the word irony...

As usual with "bible is better than science" type sentiments, there is more than a little poetic license and wishful thinking involved here. Using the same standards as the bible, we could simply refute it with "wott lotta crap". This would be a very relevant unchanging axiom also.

One day science will help psychology gain a better physical understanding of exactly how the indoctrination methods used by cults such as Scientology, Christianity etc, affects the brain. Especially when it (unsubstantiated religious tripe) is forced on young minds during their "formative" years and thereafter making them immune to common sense. Perhaps this understanding will see an end to such practice, possibly they will even find a cure for such maladies as religious delusion.

Not that there can't be a universal intelligence "of sorts", who knows? It isn't the completely mental war god of popular superstition (the bible). He is just one of many fictional characters bandied around throughout mythology. The only relevant areas of science to this god would be those that take in mythology or the thought processes of the indoctrinated (cultural anthropology, psychology, neuroscience etc), which seems the only place he can be found. The brothers Grim would be a better read for young minds and contain about as much truth, with the bonus that adults don't pass it off as though it is.

It is a shame that organised religions close minds to the wish to understand existence, by making them believe they already "know". Don't understand that..? .....ah.....god did it..... that covers it. Thanks. A phenomena that in itself is as peculiar as it is fascinating...

reply to post by EnochWasRight


There's a difference between theoretical physics and regular physics

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

There's a difference between theoretical physics and regular physics

If it's built on an axiom that changes, it is all theoretical. Natural Science is based on nature as viewed from what can readily be observed by patterns and law. Form the dimensions around what is visible, the higher and lower scale of physics has a different set of laws that are founded on context of where they are in the chain of projecting the image. The entire thing is based on one set of facts that our axioms have yet to see clearly. When we do, the axioms will become facts. The original seed of this theory of everything will be based on something simple. Light is a trinity. Consciousness is a quantum calculation and digital by nature. Analog science cannot see this yet, but it will. As soon as our on created Image catches up, the parallel we used as a archetype will be seen by the law of inverse squares. As we approach the source, we see it clearly from the reflection and in a mirror. Apart from admitting consciousness into particle and wave duality, we will never see that all three are required. Consciousness is the Holy Spirit of God and admitting this is belief in a Creator.

Compare this to the Sims in our own video games looking back and saying, there is not creator. This was a random evolution. Our theory is that we collapse memory locations to allow the observer to see the place in the game he is it, but no intelligence created these laws. The truth is, we did precicely what God did. We created an artificial reality in time, using energy in motion. What is this energy in motion? Particle and wave with information contained within. We simply have not added consciousness yet. When our own consciousness enters the game system, then we will see both sides of the image as God sees it. So far, we can only see our side.

1 Corinthians 13

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

We are known. We have yet to fully know God until we can see both sides.

Collapsing wave function does not make sense any other way.

Originally posted by BagBing

Originally posted by GoOfYFoOt

Originally posted by BagBing

Originally posted by seeknoevil
Bro, science is a serious of corrected mistakes. God does not make mistakes. So you know where I stand.. Peace and Love to ya!! - Susan

You stand with illiteracy. Seriesly. ;-)

I hope you were joking.
You mock illiteracy and then mis-spell the very next word?

Look up the word irony...

Really?
I'm not the one who mis-spelled a word, and you believe I need to read the definition of a word that really doesn't even apply?
I did start off with, "I hope you were joking"...

I guess you should have used the sarcasm tag...

reply to post by EnochWasRight

As always, excellent explanations of lesser known material. You have a way with these things...
I have always put the two together, and realized that they are two perceptions of the same thing. I just find it difficult to explain to some, and truly don't talk to many.

I am surprised however to find so little support on this particular thread. I missed it from the get go, and was redirected here from another thread. I'm glad I check on these re-directs. I'm like a child in that regard, because I hate to miss out on the treats...

Thanks again guy...
Oh, and God bless you man...

I had to add this before I left; call it ego or whatever, but at one time I wanted to write a book about the two perceptions citing that Jesus and others were aware of these things even in their time. It will probably never happen for me, but the market is there if you need something to do...

I do want to write another book. The problem is, I have good ideas for several. It's hard narrowing myself down to one topic. I suppose that's a good thing. When I am finished with my degree, I'll probably start putting one together on reading symbolism from the Bible.

Originally posted by visualmiscreant
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

As always, excellent explanations of lesser known material. You have a way with these things...
I have always put the two together, and realized that they are two perceptions of the same thing. I just find it difficult to explain to some, and truly don't talk to many.

I am surprised however to find so little support on this particular thread. I missed it from the get go, and was redirected here from another thread. I'm glad I check on these re-directs. I'm like a child in that regard, because I hate to miss out on the treats...

Thanks again guy...
Oh, and God bless you man...

I had to add this before I left; call it ego or whatever, but at one time I wanted to write a book about the two perceptions citing that Jesus and others were aware of these things even in their time. It will probably never happen for me, but the market is there if you need something to do...

Here is what I posted in the thread "Science rooted in what most would call 'Religion'. I thought is was somewhat relevant here.

I misunderstood your title - Science rooted in what most would call "Religion". You are going on the science is religion angle, while I was thinking that you meant the science is rooted in religion.

Many scientific ideas came from religious sources. The big bang, plate tech-tonics, and even evolution can be found in the Bible's first book. Other religions contributed to other ideas, eastern philosophy is contributing to western physics right now. I bet the number zero was inspired by Islamic beliefs, but I haven't checked up on that one yet.

Anyway, science is certainly a philosophy to most, and possibly a religion to many.