Julian Assange: UK issues 'threat' to arrest Wikileaks founder

Originally posted by yorkshirelad

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by PrinceDreamer

 

Wrong on several counts.

It isn't an international law, merely "convention". For reference, it is the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations.

The Embassy remains the property of the host nation, according to the Convention it doesn't belong in any way to the nation occupying it.

The Embassy is obliged to follow local laws, even if the Diplomats themselves are immune from prosecution, but they could find themselves all declared PNG and removed themselves..

Assange is fleeing bail and has broken his bail conditions, ergo he is breaking local law and the Embassy is assisting him in doing so. On that note, we have a "local law" which allows us to revoke the privileged status of an Embassy in such situations.

You are literally correct. However, this is one hell of a diplomatic situation for what is comparatively a trivial incident. It is not trivial to the victims of crime but it is a trivial incidentwhen compared to the consequences. There is a bigger story unfolding here and I strongly suspect Assange was correct : the crime is a stitch up and the US wants him for a show trial.

So tell me this : If a person knows they are being setup for a fabricated crime and knows a foreign power wants to put them in a show trial with the possibility of a death sentence, what should they do? Surely said person would run to the nearest embassy and shout "asylum" wouldn't they?

Assange says he is innocent - if he knows it is a different matter. If it's a fabricated charge? Funny, I imagine lots of people would say charges have been fabricated against them and they know they are innocent.

Now, if he had actually escaped the country and got to Ecuador, he could shout what he wants, but within an embassy on foreign soil the same doesn't count for non political criminal allegations.

So on one end we have the Ecuadorian Govt. stating that they believe Assange is a victim of political persecution. On the other side we have the UK who states they are obligated to turn him over to Swedish authorities for the rape and sexual molestation cases.... The truth of what Assange did or didnt do is likely somewhere in the middle, UK is likely being pressured more by the USA but they are deflecting the "heat" onto Sweden... Honestly, what's the bigger issue, a rape/molestation case or the breach of national security? In the Govts. eyes its the ladder....

I dont think this is going to turn out well for Assange, if they are mentioning breaching an Embassy to the world then its gotta be an idea they are seriously considering. My guess, is that Assange never makes it to Ecuador ok, he will ultimately end up in Sweden or USA....or both

Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by Flavian

 

So what in the law applies to Assange?

I'm pretty sure the UK would be in a lot of **** if we did this.

Somethingwicked has the law right on this one. Plus Stumason on either this or one of the similar threads. Not popular information but true nontheless (sadly).

I do think though that any subsequent actions undertaken here would seriously hamper any future diplomatic missions we decide to engage in! Can't see their being much goodwill left on the international stage.

On the other hand, William Hague (whatever you think of his politics) is one of the most astute political operators on the planet. I can't imagine he would enter this without first seriously looking at any and all possible ramifications.

Originally posted by jhn7537
The truth of what Assange did or didnt do is likely somewhere in the middle

What on earth makes you think so? The man is surely either innocent or guilty

Originally posted by gekko

Originally posted by jhn7537
The truth of what Assange did or didnt do is likely somewhere in the middle

What on earth makes you think so? The man is surely either innocent or guilty

Guilty of leaking confidential documents, but innocent of raping someone.... (somewhere in the middle)

Breaking News‏@BreakingNews
Sweden summons Ecuador's ambassador, calls Assange asylum decision 'unacceptable'

This makes me sick to my stomach. The limpwristed threats made by the government is proof that this country is nothing more than a hideout for wanted international criminals and there is nothing they can do about it. There was a time when we used to put an end to international crime, now we have become nothing more than a piece of land where Russians settle their differences with fatal methods, middle eastern terrorists get asylum and benefits, and international diplomats cast our laws to hell and house wanted felons.

Originally posted by jhn7537

Originally posted by gekko

Originally posted by jhn7537
The truth of what Assange did or didnt do is likely somewhere in the middle

What on earth makes you think so? The man is surely either innocent or guilty

Guilty of leaking confidential documents, but he likely didnt rape anyone.... (somewhere in the middle)

Blimey, if I ever go to court I hope you are in the jury! You are basing that assumption on the fact you think it is too convenient a charge to be raised at this time? He strikes me as a very ego ridden person and I wouldn't assume innocence so quickly - point is though, neither you, I or anyone else on ATS (to the best of my knowledge) was there at the time.

ETA: and now you've even removed the word 'likely' from your post!! Incredible!

reply to post by jhn7537


I don't know. That is the thing with this case.......

I actually think he may be guilty of rape. He needs to stand trial for it either way. In my mind, the Wikileaks thing is entirely separate and should be treated as such. If guarantees are publicly given that he won't be extradited to the USA then he should certainly be extradited to Sweden to stand trial for rape.

The problem is that guarantees can't really be given and even if they are, they can't really be believed.

How about meeting in the middle and giving him a trial on a North Sea ferry somewhere between the two?

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by jhn7537

Originally posted by gekko

Originally posted by jhn7537
The truth of what Assange did or didnt do is likely somewhere in the middle

What on earth makes you think so? The man is surely either innocent or guilty

Guilty of leaking confidential documents, but he likely didnt rape anyone.... (somewhere in the middle)

Blimey, if I ever go to court I hope you are in the jury! You are basing that assumption on the fact you think it is too convenient a charge to be raised at this time? He strikes me as a very ego ridden person and I wouldn't assume innocence so quickly - point is though, neither you, I or anyone else on ATS (to the best of my knowledge) was there at the time.

Well, friend, I hope you are never in court for anything bad where a jury is necessary

The way I look at it is the US Govt. is PISSED OFF at Assange for what he did, they know they cant get their hands on him yet, so they put together/staged an incident that frames Assange so they can finally get to him... I wouldnt put it passed my Govt. to do some shady sh*t like that...Maybe Assange did these crimes, maybe he didnt... I just wouldnt put it passed my govt. to frame him (trying to destroy any and all credibility)...

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by jhn7537

 

I don't know. That is the thing with this case.......

I actually think he may be guilty of rape. He needs to stand trial for it either way. In my mind, the Wikileaks thing is entirely separate and should be treated as such. If guarantees are publicly given that he won't be extradited to the USA then he should certainly be extradited to Sweden to stand trial for rape.

The problem is that guarantees can't really be given and even if they are, they can't really be believed.

How about meeting in the middle and giving him a trial on a North Sea ferry somewhere between the two?

Well, the reason why I bring up both the rape/molestation case and the wikileaks case is because they kinda go hand-in-hand, and if he's extradited to Sweden, there are VERY good chances he will then be extradited to USA... So Wikileaks is definitely on the backburner with this story today, but its definitely the 800lb elephant in the room, because everyone wants to know what USA is going to do..

Originally posted by andy06shake
Please tell me you dont expect the British public to allow our Nazi gov to extradite this man to Sweden, the FBI, CIA, OSS and other alphabet agencys will be there waiting for him with a polonium sandwich!

I don't think 'allow' is the right term, given the public are a hairs breadth from impotent with respect to what the govt do or do not do with Assange (...unless, of course, poms pull another 'Rise Of The Planet Of The Apes', à la last August's episode)

His best hope is the US' limey lapdog's desire to save face after this farcical situation will somehow result in him getting to Ecuador. Not unlike how that Chinese activist evaded the politburo's clutches recently...

reply to post by jhn7537


Pretty big white elephant too, isn't it?

The thing i don't get about the whole thing is that surely Assange would have known that going through with Wikileaks would basically paint a very large target all over him? So surely he would have been extra careful in any subsequent dealings, whether that was women or new friends or whatever? I know i would........

Random women in your hotel room? Get them to sign a disclaimer saying they are there for sex and then post it on Wikileaks! Problem solved..........

Well, apart from the Stars and Stripes crosshairs on him..................................

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Flavian


Well not technically, what the UK are trying to do is use an obscure law created in 1987 in the UK, it does actually go against the vienna decleration of diplomacy of 1961. Here is the wording from said decleration;
Article 22
1.The premises of the mission shall be inviolable. The agents of the receiving State may not enter
them, except with the consent of the head of the mission.
2.The receiving State is under a special duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the premises
of the mission against any intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the
mission or impairment of its dignity.
3.The premises of the mission, their furnishings and other property thereon and the means of
transport of the mission shall be immune from search, requisition, attachment or execution.

I respect Ecuador for their actions. We’ve been calm and relaxed in the face of bullies. Even had a laugh at the charge he faces in Sweden. I’m disappointed in my own government’s (Australia) lack of action. But I know the Australian government are as weak as it gets. They bend over for pretty much any nation, from Indonesia to the US. It’s troublesome that they’ll readily help drug traffickers who get caught throughout Asia where the death penalty or life in prison is fairly common, but they’re silent on this. What legal basis has the US got to have him shipped there? How will he get out of England and to Ecuador? He’s a smart man, I can imagine he chose Ecuador for a reason...

reply to post by Sablicious


Poms is such a misleading term, shouldn't it be pohms as in Prisoners Of His(Her) Majesty, which kinda means the aussies. Or in this case they got the nice huge island with the nice weather and we ended up.....

Originally posted by FFS4000
reply to post by Sablicious

 

Poms is such a misleading term, shouldn't it be pohms as in Prisoners Of His(Her) Majesty, which kinda means the aussies. Or in this case they got the nice huge island with the nice weather and we ended up.....

edit on 15/09/2011 by FFS4000 because: (no reason given)

Nah, Australians absolutely hate us, I didn't think it was true at first, but now I've seen it. I reserve the deepest levels of contempt for their tiny little population.

Originally posted by binkman

Originally posted by FFS4000
reply to post by Sablicious

 

Poms is such a misleading term, shouldn't it be pohms as in Prisoners Of His(Her) Majesty, which kinda means the aussies. Or in this case they got the nice huge island with the nice weather and we ended up.....

edit on 15/09/2011 by FFS4000 because: (no reason given)

Nah, Australians absolutely hate us, I didn't think it was true at first, but now I've seen it. I reserve the deepest levels of contempt for their tiny little population.

I live in australia, I'm Australian and I don't hate anyone. It is a potty there are a few hotheads on here that give us Aussies a bad name....

On topic though, where are the people to tak sto the streets and shut the police down? Revolution

What i see here is a coward running away without concern for the harm his actions might cause to others, if he's so innocent then why is he running? If he was so innocent then he should obey the law and fight any real injustice upon himself from a more respectable position. what he can't handle a bit of prison time? He should be glad the cold war isn't still going on, if it was, he would've been killed for leaking information instead of merely being investigated and bad mouthed.
If he hadn't ran i bet he'd be home by now with all charges dropped and safe from extradition instead of causing this embassy mess, now when he gets captured he will look guilty to most judges and will be far more likely to be convicted, all because he acted out like a spoiled child and ran instead of facing reality and fighting for the truth like he so claims to be all for. he has no real desire to help anyone but himself, he's just using this situation for his own gain and Ecuador of course has plenty to gain from all this, from secret information to a propaganda victory in exposing "western imperialists" for corruption.

reply to post by Sablicious


"I don't think 'allow' is the right term, given the public are a hairs breadth from impotent with respect to what the govt do or do not do with Assange (...unless, of course, poms pull another 'Rise Of The Planet Of The Apes', à la last August's episode)

His best hope is the US' limey lapdog's desire to save face after this farcical situation will somehow result in him getting to Ecuador. Not unlike how that Chinese activist evaded the politburo's clutches recently..."

Well if a couple of 1000 UK(Limey's in your speak) residents turned up to escort Mr Assange to a safe location the police will find themselves impotent and powerless, you see they frown upon beating up white folk in any kind of large numbers here, its not politically correct. Plus look how the riots went down last year, ive never seen Police crapping themselfs before it touched my heart string! Also that was from a couple of 1000 yobs. If you hit them fast then then just cant respond in time, guerilla tactics is the way to go. Im not advocating rioting, Im advocating revolution!

They cant do this, they must be stopped!