What would my grandad have known as a 3rd degree mason?

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posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason

Yes, everyone in the judicial and law enforcement is a Mason. BWAHAHAHAHAHA


Oh no. Not everyone. Just the main ones, with the real decision powers.

Masons call upon members to be "leaders" in their fields.


edit on 26-8-2012 by GreatOwl because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09

I'm afraid you are mistaken, my friend. I stated quite precisely what his grandfather would have known: Specifically, he would have been intimately familiar with the 3 degrees, all of which are publicly available online or at your local library.



Only the symbols are there on the internet. But, the interpretation of those symbols and rituals, which he would have known, you sort of just left out.



Again, you are misinformed. One may be charitable in more ways than donating money.


This I seriously doubt. One can either give what one wants, which the receiver is obligated to receive, or one can give money, so that the receiver can choose what he wants to receive by himself, electing to buy one or more of many things he might feel the need for.

The problem with giving what one wants, other than money, is that the receiver may be the one being charitable in the receipt of the gift, and not the actual apparent giver. Although it may seem strange, to some who haven't really thought about it much, or whose life experience is just too short to know, there are many times when to receive the gift is the charity itself.

For example, you put on a charitable dinner, and nobody comes. What then do you do with all that food you prepared. But, you put on that dinner, and many people show up to eat your food, drink, and keep your company. They have all taken the time to make you feel good, about putting on that dinner "for them." But, many times several of those people did not really want to come. They would rather have gone somewhere else, but felt some sort of "obligation" to show up to your dinner, to please you. In their hearts, each thought of himself or herself as being charitable, in "accepting" the gift of food, while you, of course, thought of yourself as charitable, in offering that food to them, and glad that so many showed up, proving that they needed that food, and appreciated having the dinner.

Yes, it's a strange world. But, this is the reality. You cannot know whether your act is charitable, if it is not a gift of the coin. Because you do not know the reason for your other gifts being accepted.

Some people accept a gift in order not to insult the giver, or upset him, or annoy him, or just to keep the peace.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 12:53 AM
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reply to post by GreatOwl
 

And yet not every Chief of Police, Judge, or blah blah blah of high level is a Mason.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by milkyway12
No, sir, the Holy Spirit is not leading you through Masonry. Unless the Holy Spirit lead you to ' Lie '...


You failed to address the point about you fabricating anecdotes to support your agenda, did the Holy Spirit help you with this?



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by GreatOwl
But, the interpretation of those symbols and rituals, which he would have known, you sort of just left out.


Every Mason can only give you their personal view on symbol interpretation, there is no guidance on what you should personally infer from each symbol.

The Orignal Poster's Grandfather would have had his own viewpoints on the symbols which may or may not have aligned with other Mason's viewpoints. Only a conversation with him could have revealed what they symbols meant to him personally.


This I seriously doubt. One can either give what one wants, which the receiver is obligated to receive, or one can give money...


My wife and I can and frequently do donate our time to charities. She takes one of our dogs (which is a certified therapy dog) to the local hospital where they have a pediatric burn center. It invloves no money on our part (other than the intial application for the certification) and the recipients (the children) are not under any obligation to play with the dog or not.

We also on occasion help our neighbors who volunteer at the local soup kitchen. Again, the recepients are not under any obligation to come to the kitchen nor does it cost us money, they strictly need the help dispensing food and drinks to those who attend.






edit on 27-8-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer (except when I get him some)



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


Everyone has secrets but not everyone joins a club based on them. Not the most mature thing to do really. Cant see the whole world being run by masons as the likes of david icke would have you believe but the fact that people do believe that must attract a few 'glory hunters'? a bit like man city suddenly having a sugar daddy immediately trebled their fan base



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by BlueNose
Everyone has secrets but not everyone joins a club based on them.


Masonry is based on allegorical morality lessons and charity. The handshakes and passwords (the 'secrets') are a by product of the ritual, not the focus of it.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by BlueNose
Everyone has secrets but not everyone joins a club based on them.


Masonry is based on allegorical morality lessons and charity. The handshakes and passwords (the 'secrets') are a by product of the ritual, not the focus of it.



But a secret handshake is only useful if you can't recognize a brother on sight.

You see, typically, people recognize each other by facial characteristics and body proportions, which is how God designed mankind. He built in that ability to "recognize" each other already in his design.

Therefore, we must conclude that masons can't recognize each other without that handshake.

This in turn means that the mason must be capable of changing his garments, in such a way that he is no longer recognizable to the eyes.

From this we conclude, that masons have mastered the art of disguise.

Simple logic, then tells us that the great secret of masonry is how to act without being recognized as the actor, except by another brother who knows the secret handshake, who can "pierce" that disguise to recognize who really sits and works from within.

The only other entities in the universe that possess this skill are the devils who can take possession of human bodies and make them do things. Maybe this is why the Church is against Freemasonry, since they must be "suspicious" of the particular skills used by the craft to do their peculiar work. And if Freemasons were more open about their secret knowledge they might be much more accepted, provided, of course, that the analogy to the devils are really quite far removed from anything like the masonic craft skill set.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by GreatOwl
But a secret handshake is only useful if you can't recognize a brother on sight.

...

Therefore, we must conclude that masons can't recognize each other without that handshake.


That is an incorrect assumption. Typically when I run into some I do not know the first way I recognize they are a Mason is if they are wearng a ring or other indicitive apparel or they may see my ring and recognize me as such. There is at that point a verbal exchange that takes place where we are able to mutually identify that we are both Masons of a certain jurisdiction. The grips are the last thing that is exhanged between us and at that point is not used to determine membership but to great each other more formally. If I do not see any such thing on them I would have no way of recognizing that they are a Mason short of shouting, 'Is anyone here a Mason?' everytime I walk into a room.

The rest of your post is assumption based on assumption that all have no basis in Masonry.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by GreatOwl
But a secret handshake is only useful if you can't recognize a brother on sight.
I would never give a Masonic handshake to someone who I didn't already know was a Mason.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by Wonderer2012
 


They really don't know that much. You can learn some of that watching youtube and reading a few books. You have way more knowledge at your fingertips than he ever dreamed of having so take advantage of it.

There's no substitute in life in my mind for a broad range of knowledge and experiences. You cant just rely on one system. Except perhaps that of the bible. That's some serious knowledge cuz it's devine knowledge.

But he probably learned some stuff like this:

four levels of learning:

1) unconscious incompetence
2) conscious incompetence
3) conscious competence
4) unconscious competence

But then after a while of being in there and as a lot of people, even people on here, many are no longer in this strange hypnotic state that most people are trapped in. They actually know what's going on out there. But growing up in public school and endless propaganda on MSM most people end up as basically sheeple or zombies. They're not awake. They have very little to zero idea whats' going on out there, other than what's been told to them. Even in talking to some people I know recently they often confirm my worst fears that they're not awake at all. It's just sad. You can't say anything really either. What are you gonna tell them? Actually I really think there better off that way anyway. They're better off just having a basic understanding of life and that's it. Keeps life simple for them.

"This one thing I know, I know nothing" ... Socrates !

You know you've reached some level of knowledge when you realize how stupid you as a mortal man are no matter what you read or obsorb.

But a basic perscription in my mind might include:

- Listening to the Alex Jones Show daily
- Listening to The conspiracy Show by Richard sariet
- Reading the bible or listening to it on audio many times so you being to understand it.
- Watching all the youtube documentaries you can but take them with a grain of salt. Don't just blindly believe everything.
- Watch semeniars, read books constantly, attend lectures, have discussions,

And try lots of stuff in life. The more expeiences you have the better. Soon you'll be a know it all like everyone on here seems to be. ha ha.


edit on 27-8-2012 by r2d246 because: (no reason given)
edit on 27-8-2012 by r2d246 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by r2d246
There's no substitute in life in my mind for a broad range of knowledge and experiences. You cant just rely on one system. Except perhaps that of the bible. That's some serious knowledge cuz it's devine knowledge.


So you basically just contradicted yourself there.

Oh, and that 'devine knowledge'? It was written by men so it would not even be divine.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


Sir, you keep blaming the scripture on me and saying i disagree with you, when obviously the scripture is the one doing the disagreeing here, a lot of the stuff i have posted has come out of the Bible. I have quoted scripture for you several times and some how you seem to think it doesn't contradict Free Masonry and its practices.

Either you don't believe the Bible whole heartedly and believe it has been wrongly altered by men who was not led by the holy spirit and the Word of God is corrupted, or you simply dont care.

For example, i will post again, this is ONE verse you cannot put a spin on.



Or if a person swears thoughtlessly with his lips to do evil or to do good, in whatever matter a man may speak thoughtlessly with an oath, and it is hidden from him, and then he comes to know it, he will be guilty in one of these. 5‘So it shall be when he becomes guilty in one of these, that he shall confess that in which he has sinned.


According to you, the Holy Spirit has lead you to sin.

How is Yahweh or the Holy Spirit involved in the support of a fraternity if it cannot be tested in accordance with the Word of God?

You have ignored everything i have posted that is scriputure.
edit on 27-8-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 08:48 PM
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Only the symbols are there on the internet. But, the interpretation of those symbols and rituals, which he would have known, you sort of just left out.

Again, you are mistaken. You can find the entire ritual of the first three degrees online. Example:

www.sacred-texts.com...

Amazon has a wealth of books on Masonry that explains the rituals in detail. Albert Mackey, a prolific author on Masonic subjects, even wrote an encyclopedia on Masonic terminology. So, once again, the information is readily available to the public if someone would only due a bare bones investigation and research into the matter.



This I seriously doubt. One can either give what one wants, which the receiver is obligated to receive, or one can give money, so that the receiver can choose what he wants to receive by himself, electing to buy one or more of many things he might feel the need for.


Doubt all you like. Masonry is open to all men, regardless of their wealth. And, there are many, many Masons that are not wealthy.

One may be charitable by donating one's time, such as working in a soup kitchen, or building a house for the homeless as in Habitat for Humanity, or raising money for a good cause by running in a marathon. There are numerous example of this kind of charity in modern society.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by r2d246
There's no substitute in life in my mind for a broad range of knowledge and experiences. You cant just rely on one system. Except perhaps that of the bible. That's some serious knowledge cuz it's devine knowledge.


So you basically just contradicted yourself there.

Oh, and that 'devine knowledge'? It was written by men so it would not even be divine.


Many famous singers claim they got the song from some outside source. The words just came to them and they wrote them down. that's a mild example. The bible was no different but it's the same idea to the extreme and from God not satan. I would only be contradicting myself if I didn't say "except". This is off the cuff writing, this isn't my Harvard Doctoral mr prof wow



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 01:40 AM
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reply to post by BlueNose
 

It has nothing to do with maturity nor is our focus on secrecy. As Augustus said, it is merely a by-product.
Nor should one join the Masons for "glory".

reply to post by GreatOwl
 

Yes, Masons are just completely incapable of using the sense of sight to recognize each other. When I walk into Lodge I'm not sure if the guy I've known for years is actually a Mason until I shake his hand. I mean we all change our disguises from week to week and meeting to meeting so as to throw off the scent of anyone following us to the Lodge that is easily identifiable. And as Josh pointed out, why would I give away a secret to someone I already didn't know to be a Mason?

How absurd are you going to get with these theories? Really, you're going to try and compare us with demonic possessions? Really?

reply to post by r2d246
 

Yes because everything on YouTube is accurate.



That's some serious knowledge cuz it's devine knowledge.

Yes "divine" knowledge written by man and edited, revised, and (mis)translated several times over the centuries.


- Listening to the Alex Jones Show daily

Yeah, this will "lift the veil"....BWAHAHAHAHAHA

He is just another piece of the propaganda machine called Fear Inc. It seems though you are a part of their indoctrinated followers.

reply to post by milkyway12
 

I'm not blaming the scriptures, I'm just saying that nothing you have posted contradicts anything I've experienced in Freemasonry. It's not like I haven't heard all the this crap before; you're not the first one to throw the Bible at me without thought.

Freemasonry is about the individual and the individual experience. I'm a Christian, I believe in Christ, and nothing in Freemasonry suppresses or hinders MY beliefs. I've honestly never cared what others thought of my religious beliefs and yet you guys keep condemning as I care, I've had a member tell me to come to his church so he could scare the good in me. To non-Chrisitans, your Bible thumping techniques are a turn-off from converting to the religion and simply meaningless if they are strong in their own faith.

With your verse, you assume we take our Obligations without thought. That's a stupid assumption. You also assume Freemasonry is sinful.


How is Yahweh or the Holy Spirit involved in the support of a fraternity if it cannot be tested in accordance with the Word of God?

Maybe it's because I'm tired or that I had class all day, but I don't get what you're aiming at here.

I haven't ignored your posts, they simply don't hold any weight to reality.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by r2d246
Many famous singers claim they got the song from some outside source. The words just came to them and they wrote them down. that's a mild example. The bible was no different but it's the same idea to the extreme and from God...


So basically what you are saying is that the Bible and pop music are written by God? What about Ozzy? Did God help him write all his lyrics?


...not satan.


Who?



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 06:47 AM
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dont want to be rude, but not much probably is the answer.
the masons lie to the lower orders deliberately. upper order masons will tell you this.



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by rapunzel222
 


no, we won't. You are referring to a Pike quote that is explained when Pike mistakenly thought there was a tie to the Knight Templar. When no historical link was provided, Pike retracted his earlier thoughts on the matter.

Nobody in masonry is intentionally misled. All are given the same information. How they interpret it is up to them.

But then again, maybe I am not high enough to really "know". Bwahahahaha



posted on Aug, 28 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by rapunzel222
 

We don't lie to each other. The myth of this comes from a quote of Pike's taken out of context by those who truly don't understand the story of that degree and its lessons.





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