What would my grandad have known as a 3rd degree mason?

reply to post by Agoyahtah


Again KNOW what you are talking about.

Are you suggesting that there are no soldiers who has fought in a war (past and present) who just happened to be a Freemason?

Are you implying that there are NO teachers, Preachers, Ministers and Pastors of churches who are Freemasons?

oh ok I get it that was too easy of an answer. I believe you are the type to bait information/answers from Freemasons only to slander us and spew our replies and comments on other message boards.

I got one for you....GO do your research. Start in your own community, you might be surprised

Originally posted by ForkandSpoon
reply to post by GreatOwl

 

.....but we give the degrees before the work is done....not after. Only the mason, and his creator has any idea how much he has accomplished......it is very much an internal labor.

Ah! I see the point you're making. Masonry is like the reverse of University. In Freemasonry, the student gets the BA before he enters into the work of his Bachelors, and gets his MA before doing Masters degree work, and again gets his PhD on entering the graduate program, and then begins to do the work for that doctorate. So, nobody really knows if he qualifies for these degrees, since the work to justify them come after they are conferred.

I wonder if University programs could benefit from the Masonic approach. It would certainly take a lot of "stress" out of the study related to each of the three degrees.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


3rd only? I don't think he knew much...

Originally posted by swan001
3rd only? I don't think he knew much...

But, by your own logic, he obviously knew more than you do.

If he was a 3rd degree Mason, he was a Master Mason. The Degrees can go all the way up to 33, depending on if he attempted to advance further.

If he was a 3rd Degree Mason, he knew most formal things masonry had to offer.

He probably didn't go much further, however, he would have been a Scottish Rite, most likely, if he continued to advance.

This is where you truly begin to understand ' secrets ' or hidden truths or so they think.

----

Look at a life in Masonry as a Story. During a Mason's life, a story unfolds of the past, present, and future.

However, if you are a Christian. I highly advise against masonry.

However, if you are a Christian. I highly advise against masonry.

I've read this before, probably on ATS lol. What is it that makes Masonry and Christianity incompatible?

reply to post by BlueNose


Masonry is a belief that all monotheistic religions speak of one god. A one world religion so to speak. Masons believe we are all one in sameness with the creator. The creator created all things, therefore we are god in the fact we are a part of god through his creation.

You respect and revere ALL monotheistic gods. You offer things to the gods and you kneel in the fact they are all speaking of the one true creator regardless of image or name.

-----

Blasphemy.

As a Christian, the name of Jesus Christ cannot be used to end prayers if it offends members attending the lodge. The Master of the lodge is not to offend any of his members even if it means not using the name Jesus Christ.

Yahweh, God, has provided a way for mindkind to be saved. He does not save us. His son, Yeshua, Jesus, handles that portion. You can pray to Yahweh (God) all day long, however, without his son Yeshua, youre in trouble.

Being a Christian, and a Free Mason .. does not mix.

reply to post by milkyway12


I was under the impression Masonry required you to believe in a god/creator/higher power. Didn't know they had a belief system themselves? Not trying to sound like a know it all, i definitely dont lol

reply to post by BlueNose


They do have a belief system in ' Sameness ' or ' Oneness '.

2nd.

reply to post by milkyway12


Thanks for the info. Interesting subject, really enjoyed reading the thread. Thanks OP and all who contributed.

Originally posted by GreatOwl

Originally posted by ForkandSpoon
reply to post by GreatOwl

 

.....but we give the degrees before the work is done....not after. Only the mason, and his creator has any idea how much he has accomplished......it is very much an internal labor.

Ah! I see the point you're making. Masonry is like the reverse of University. In Freemasonry, the student gets the BA before he enters into the work of his Bachelors, and gets his MA before doing Masters degree work, and again gets his PhD on entering the graduate program, and then begins to do the work for that doctorate. So, nobody really knows if he qualifies for these degrees, since the work to justify them come after they are conferred.

I wonder if University programs could benefit from the Masonic approach. It would certainly take a lot of "stress" out of the study related to each of the three degrees.

Oh he does have to qualify for them to be sure. However the nature of what the degrees are, makes it impossible for anyone to judge the progress but his creator...it is again an internal labor......

The degrees in masonry is more like building plans....but what your building can't always be seen by the outside world. How far you go, or even if you take up your plans seriously or not is up to you. If an un-rightous man were to get the degree, it would be useless to him....just plans he'll likely never put to use. However the man who does take them seriously, and applies themselves will be the only one to truly know how hard they worked at it, and also are likely to be the ones who get the most out of it. Though their families, freinds, and community would certainly benefit as well from such a man. It certainly requires the attitude of someone not content with expected standards, it is for someone whow ants to hold themselves to a higher standard then is expected.

Wouldn't work for the University system, or even non speculativ masonry, you have to prove your ablities for those professions.

reply to post by swan001

I knew quite a bit as a 3rd degree.

reply to post by milkyway12

There is much more to Freemasonry than just the Scottish Rite.

However, if you are a Christian. I highly advise against masonry.

As a Christian, I've enjoyed Freemasonry every step of the way, particularly when I was knighted, a few times, in the York Rite, most importantly in the Order of the Temple.

reply to post by milkyway12

Freemasonry doesn't believe in "one world religion". Freemasonry is primarily Judeo-Christian as one can see from the legends that surround our rituals, but we allow men of all faiths to join.

You do not respect and revere any god, but the one of your individual faith.

As a Christian, the name of Jesus Christ cannot be used to end prayers if it offends members attending the lodge. The Master of the lodge is not to offend any of his members even if it means not using the name Jesus Christ.

Well no religious figure is said in the Lodge so its not like Christianity is targeted. We use a generic term for each member to apply in his own way. Any time I pray, even in the Lodge, I'm praying to Christ.

Being a Christian, and a Free Mason .. does not mix.

It mixes just fine and I know many fine, devout Christians who are Freemasons.

reply to post by BlueNose

We do require one to have a belief in a higher power, but we don't define the individual Brother's beliefs.

Originally posted by BlueNose
However, if you are a Christian. I highly advise against masonry.

I've read this before, probably on ATS lol. What is it that makes Masonry and Christianity incompatible?

Basically, they pledge their oaths to different things.

Masons have penalties like ripping out your heart and guts, and slashing your throat, and Christians have penalties like hell and burning fire for all eternity. Either way you go, things get harsh if you don't follow the rules.

Originally posted by milkyway12


Being a Christian, and a Free Mason .. does not mix.

edit on 24-8-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

Like oil and water.

You can put the two in the same pot, but however hard you try, they remain separate.

reply to post by GreatOwl

And yet Masons are only expelled at worst for breaking the rules.

reply to post by GreatOwl

They remain separate only to the ignorant.

reply to post by JoshNorton


lol I will never be a mason, or a adhere to any deep religions. I think the only way one can find truth is by believing nothing, yet consider everything. So far, it worked for me, as it enable one's mind to completely shift between thinking processes and systems without feeling any guilt of sinful thinking or without breaking any rules. I can think like a christian, then I can think like Rockfeller, then I can think like the Illuminati, then I can think like a new ager, I can think exactly how I want to think.
I prefer being the master of my own mind... No offence meant, of course.

Originally posted by milkyway12

Blasphemy.

As a Christian, the name of Jesus Christ cannot be used to end prayers if it offends members attending the lodge. The Master of the lodge is not to offend any of his members even if it means not using the name Jesus Christ.

Yahweh, God, has provided a way for mindkind to be saved. He does not save us. His son, Yeshua, Jesus, handles that portion. You can pray to Yahweh (God) all day long, however, without his son Yeshua, youre in trouble.

Being a Christian, and a Free Mason .. does not mix.

edit on 24-8-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

So you don't think Jesus Christ could wait two hours before his name was mentioned? Damn, the Jesus Christ I studied about is way different than the guy you refer to. The one I looked into was a teacher and his goal was to teach people about his father. Masonry is definitely not for you, as we do respect others religions and ask the same of them. (I'll tell you a secret though, the Christians who want to are allowed to end a prayer in Christ's name anywhere outside the lodge) Blasphemy! Bwahahahhahah!

Originally posted by BlueNose
What is it that makes Masonry and Christianity incompatible?

The very, simple, simple answer?

Hardcore Christianity does not mix with anything. The normal ones will do just fine.

reply to post by KSigMason


You pray to non other to Yeshua for only his authoirty gives you access to the most high. Baal is not Jehovah. Allah, is not Emmanuel. The great Architect of the Universe is not a name given to us in the Bible to call upon Yahweh or Yeshua with.

GAOTU is not Yahweh.

I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. (Isaiah 45:5)

For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the LORD made the heavens. (Psalms 96:5)

You cannot simply call Yahweh, Zeus, and expect him to honor the authority of that name, or Baal. They are names of false gods.

Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. (1 Corinthians 10:19-20)

Offerings are offered in respect to many ' supreme ' gods, because you believe Yahweh is one of the same of these false gods. He is not. Vishnu will not save you.

You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons. (1 Corinthians 10:21)

Use only the names Yahweh has given us to use. I always ensure i use Yahweh, Yeshua, and Jesus in my prayers. Just for the comfort of my spirit. No matter who it offends.

------

Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. ( Jude 3-4 )


See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. ( Colossians 2:8 )

------

Hmmm, if you dont have a check in your spirit, you should start questioning whether you are under Jesus Christ .. or you are a Mason. You cannot be both.

reply to post by milkyway12


Number one - "monotheistic gods" is an oxymoron.

Second - Jesus didn't say, "End a prayer with my name or you will go to hell."

The problem with fundamentalist Christianity is the belief that you can't truly go to heaven unless you actively condemn others to hell.

As a Christian with an immovable faith in the TEACHINGS of Jesus I have found Freemasonry to be the most powerful and inspirational factor in improving my faith.

Freemasonry is not only compatible with Christianity, it's lessons can be an amazing way to truly understand our purpose, our lives and our future.

If "Christians" would stop listening to lying cult "evangelicals" you would realize that Jesus NEVER SAID any of the things that modern evangelical Christianity pushes on people.

Augustine, Constantine, the "church" and the likes of King James have bastardized, manipulated and re-written Jesus' sayings and teachings in order to subordinate weak-minded persons into service of the CHURCH and not God's children.

The murderer Constantine is the one who introduced the cross into Christian worship. Do you really think Jesus wants you to revere his murder weapon?

Augustine introduced "hell" into the "Christian" religion because too many people were figuring out that it was more important to love others than bow down to the church.

Jesus told you LITERALLY an PRECISELY what you are to do. You are to love God and love one another. PERIOD. END OF SENTENCE.

The problem with nonsense-spewing fundamentalism (ESPECIALLY on this board) is that you understand deep down that you are lashing out against anyone and anything that doesn't share your misguided fear of eternal damnation.

When an organization comes along that tells people to love on another as brothers and sisters, relieve the suffering of others, to pursue the Truth aggressively and without ceasing and to simply accept another man's path even if it doesn't match yours... well you think it must be condemned and destroyed.

Either Jesus died to save the world and forgive mankind's sins, or he didn't. Either the kingdom of God is here, now and within you like He said, or he lied. Either your ONLY PURPOSE as a person and as a "Christian" is to love and serve others like He said, or he lied.

God is love. God is not fear. God hates none of his children. God is not going to damn or burn anyone.

So yes, speaking for myself, not only is Christianity compatible with Freemasonry, it is enhanced in a mighty way when men learn to abandon religious zeal, break off the superfluous bits of their imperfect selves, stop condemning out of ignorance and trust in God.

What you 'believe' is completely irrelevant to what actually exists.

Take time to talk to, and read about, people who have actually died and been in the presence of God (or in the case of Christians, Jesus). Contemplate it carefully.

Think about the way your words and actions hurt others and instill fear. It is literally and absolutely true that you will confront your own actions when you die. You will experience the hurt, pain and fear from the perspective of the other person.

If you don't believe ANYTHING else, believe what Jesus said. Nothing will remain hidden. Everything will be revealed.

There isn't a hell. There isn't eternal damnation. There is, however, accountability for your actions.

I think many masons come to understand this in a real way. There are no 'secrets' in Freemasonry that have not been given to mankind over and over again. God is our father. We are his children. The only thing that matters is love, and the active part of love which is service and charity.

I will make a deal with any Christian that thinks it's important to scare folks in order to save them. If there is a hell and a Satan I will make my last request a comfortable armchair so you can sit comfortably and smugly with a tall cool glass of lemonade while I am roasted for eternity.