What would my grandad have known as a 3rd degree mason?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

I'm just extremely glad about the sports bar next door. Hell, I even get the ladies from the Eastern Star to come knock back one after meeting.

reply to post by Agoyahtah

You do need money to be a mason. Because all masons do is charity work.

Actually, that is not all Masons do, and it probably isn't even our primary agenda. Masons do a lot of charity work, as our individual circumstances allow. I even posted a thread on it.

BUT, one doesn't have to be a Mason to do charity work, and one doesn't have to do charity work to be a Mason.

One joins Masonry to learn from some ancient notions of morality and learn from some respected brothers and role models. One joins for internal reflection and spiritual reasons. One must be first prepared in their heart to become a Mason, and then they seek out the opportunity. Some might join because they want to get involved in charity work. I originally joined so that I could become a Shriner and visit burn victims in the Shriner Hospitals, because I, myself, am a burn victim.

Nobody needs money to become a Mason, and no Mason is required to give any money to charity. We pay our yearly dues to the Lodge, and anything else is entirely voluntary.

Your entire notion of Freemasonry is completely skewed and off-base.

Originally posted by KSigMason
I'm just extremely glad about the sports bar next door.

When I was visiting with network he asked me if I wanted to hang at the sports bar downstairs from his lodge. He said it had all of their favorite games; tonsil hockey, pocket pool, etc.

I declined the invite.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Putting aside the fact that not all me do is charity work, did you ever stop to think that maybe someone could volunteer their time to help out?

Yes, well, but he still has to be rich. For example, a doctor could volunteer his time, and see patients at no charge. That would certainly be charity. But, the doctor could just as well have charged some patients the usual fee, then taken that money and given it away to someone else. His "time" is "worth" something. People are willing to pay for the doctors time. That's how we know the doctor's time is valuable. It has a monetary value. The doctor giving his time directly, is just "cutting out" the intermediate step of collecting the money and then giving it away.

Now, a poor man is poor because his time is "not worth" anything. If his time had worth, he could sell, raise the cash, then give that money away. If his time had any worth, then other people would be willing to pay him for his time. Then he would become rich. At which point, he could give money, which has more flexible utility to the needy. So, a man giving away something that is "worthless" anyway, could hardly be considered charitable. So, only a rich man can be charitable. Only the rich man makes a "sacrifice" of what he could have, in order to give.

A poor man makes no sacrifice. In fact, you probably do him a favor asking him for his time. At least he gets to feel important for a moment. So, he is the "recipient" of the charity, not the donor. He gives up nothing to donate his time, because no one else was making any demands on his time. It was not "valuable" to anyone else. That's why no one was paying him, and why he remained poor. He has all the time to spare.

However you examine the situation, only a rich person can be a mason.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
BUT, one doesn't have to be a Mason to do charity work, and one doesn't have to do charity work to be a Mason.

BUT, masons have never pointed out any other work except "CHARITY".

I realize that masons also have secrets. But, no one learns about those secrets until he joins. The only thing he learns in advance is about the Charity work.

Ask any mason what they do, and he will rattle off a whole list of charities masons are involved in.

No other work is mentioned.

Therefore, we have to presume, nothing else is done.

While Charity does require money, it is possible to occupy ones time doing other things, like watching strippers, or drinking beer, that doesn't take a lot of funds. But, only the Shriners and Jesters are supposed to do this. Regular masons deny all such activity also.

Of course, masons do some things that are not charity, like performing skits and initiation rituals, and dressing up, having dinner, chatting with the brethren like any club, looking solemn at meetings when jokes are played, etc..but these are just the entertainments that keep them from being bored. The real work is still the charity.

Originally posted by Agoyahtah
However you examine the situation, only a rich person can be a mason.

you go ahead and stick with that assumption.

If there was an award for the worst thought out idea, you sir would win Gold.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by KSigMason
I'm just extremely glad about the sports bar next door.

When I was visiting with network he asked me if I wanted to hang at the sports bar downstairs from his lodge. He said it had all of their favorite games; tonsil hockey, pocket pool, etc.

I declined the invite.

You are just being kind. The boys loved having you for the Barrel hour. You took it like a trooper.
Next time we'll put someone else in the barrel and let you see who was poking around.

reply to post by Agoyahtah

Ask any mason what they do, and he will rattle off a whole list of charities masons are involved in.

No other work is mentioned.

Therefore, we have to presume, nothing else is done.

Why do you have to presume nothing else is done?

We take care of lodge business, we converse, we study, we eat, we visit distressed brothers, we perform funeral rites, we assist members of other groups like Eastern Star or Shriners.

It is true, we don't do a whole lot of public work. We have some decent charities, and some Masons work fundraising for them, while other Masons give them money, while some don't participate at all with charity work.

For some Masons, all they do is show up to Lodge meetings once per year and vote on the new officers. Some Masons strictly do degree work. Some Masons just do Lodge business like corresponding with the Grand Lodge.

When you go to the gym, do you have to be a bodybuilder to be a member of the gym? Does every member of the gym play professional sports? If they aren't working out and becoming professional athletes, then what are they doing? Can it be possible that some members of fitness clubs are actually not fit? How can that be? What else do they do with their membership?

ETA:
I read through your post more thoroughly now. You pretty much nailed it. That is it. But that doesn't mean all Masons have to have money? I've never given much of any money to Masonry other than my dues. Maybe some change here and there. I have offered up children's clothes, and a place to stay after a family had a fire, but they didn't accept. I've driven some Masons to the hospital for visits, and I've visited Masons in their homes, but that doesn't take money. To tell you the truth, I'm not a big fan of giving away cash to charities. I think they waste too much of it. I'll happily give to a specific need, or offer up my time for some cause, but I don't give cash.

reply to post by Agoyahtah


it's something you could not understand. Masonry isn't the meetings. It isn't the charity. It isn't the drinks at the bar after a meeting. It isn't dressing up in a tux and going to a funeral. It's a way of life. It's using the things you are taught to live your life better than you did before. It includes all those other things, but you don't have go to meetings every month to be a mason. You don't have to give money to charity to be a mason.
Sometimes you just have to be there to listen to a friend who needs to talk, or visit an older guy who lost his wife and has not found something to occupy his time yet.

And all of those things can be done by anyone, mason or non mason.

Originally posted by Agoyahtah
Yes, well, but he still has to be rich. For example, a doctor could volunteer his time, and see patients at no charge.

People can volunteer on the weekend when they typically have no work.

Now, a poor man is poor because his time is "not worth" anything.

Even someone who is not finanically well off can donate their time for the betterment of others less fortunate.

Masons don't do anything else but Charity.

We are not a charity, we are a charitable institution. But Freemasonry was certainly NOT founded simply for the sake of Charity in the modern sense. You certainly do not start in secret, with handshakes, and strong oaths to protect your charity work..... that this is what some lodges have become almost exclusively is the reason why they are shrinking.

Origins aside, to understand the masonic view on Charity, in a way few masons except those who still read seem to anymore, it helps to understand the history of the Bible. Modern literalist believe every word in scripture to be literal, an illusion due to being born after the printing press and a conformity in language I suppose. That might be fine except that there are not literal translations from language to language for every word. Words and concepts often have very different meanings. Or worse only slightly different meanings that are easily overlooked, but then can result in some rather larger theological errors.

The Bible is written in multiple languages and often translated down through 2 or 3 or more. "Love" and "Charity" are what we find since the King James translation, and understanding the close parallel of the men who made up early Masonry and those who made up the translators of that edition helps too, there's alot of crossover between these two groups.

This difference between "Love" and "Charity" is not seen in the Greek where the word "Agape" is used for both. In the ancient Hebrew "Ahab" is used in the old testiment and only slightly less broad in scope then Agape in possible meanings. "Charity" is not really a seperate term in the Bible rather it is usually just Agape used as a noun. As a noun it is used in a way beyond feeling, it is concrete, it is affection manifest. Wether it be a "thing" like what we think of charity today, or a deed and action as a noun. It is not a promise of love, or a want of love, it is a love completed. So Love and Charity mean the same, but kind of like the concept of actions speaking louder then words, Charity is a realized form of love/affection.

Not all Freemasons are Christians, but ALL of Freemasonry comes from Biblical and Judeo/Christian sources, and 90% of those come from the New Testiment directly regardless of what your conspiracy myths say, but to refute those accusations means discussing things we will not discuss.

After the age of exploration the universality in symbolism among world religions became popular. And it became fashionable to add newer meanings to masonry, but those are not part of original founding concepts, which are very much based on Christian, Jewish, and Christian Hermetic thought only. It is ultimately a recipe for applying those lessons we are taught to live, to community and society. In freemasonry it is not meant to limit it, and to extend it to all mankind. This is the concept of Charity...from a historical masonic view....it has of course changed with the addition of other movements through masonry's history.

Freemasonry is not a religion, rather it is a group that recognizes the importance of strong communities and that men of all faiths must work together for common purpose to insure peaceful and successful societies.....your church, temple, etc are where you go for salvation, freemasonry is only concerned with this world and how to live among each other and and protect each others freedom to worship whatever faith you choose.

All of that said, Freemasonry wasn't started for this either.........rather this is an important part of helping men perfect themselves, and to unite against those who are tyrants....and you can flip a coin on which purpose came first in masonry "self perfection" or "overthrowing tyranny". I have seen the argument made well on both sides on which was first purpose. I suppose though it is one in the same. A community that is not divided, can not easily be conquored.....which is why we are so much in peril today, a divided people is a people that can be controlled. It's a shame to me that the culture revolution in this country all but wiped out this common understanding that we were better united with different faiths, rather the dividing and antagonizing each other. Then again....one only needs to see who planted the seeds for that American 1960's cultural revolution to see why that was the goal all along.

As to the original poster....please ignore half of what you hear here about Freemasonry, even so called "experts" rarely have a clue about what masonry is about as they have no experience to filter rubbish and myth from truth. Also many masons sadly do not know as much today, because beyond doing the basic essential to perform rituals, few go beyond to study and research history and meaning anymore. Your grandfather was given the "tools" to be a better man, and judging from the rest of what you said, I'll wager he did the work laid out on his trestle board very well.

I do want to add, I said half of masons do not understand many concepts today, and I have to sort of hold to that, though i wish I did not. However among the actual masons on THESE boards and forum, you will find many excellent well read and thoughtful Masons able to help you.

I would love to see those medals, they sound fascinating and we have nothing like that in our Lodge. That said last year when I handed the Lodge over to the new Master I received my I.P.M's medal.

Our installation this year is in September where I will be made Tyler and given the emblem of my office.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


If You Must Know:

He learned at the 3rd degree... That the first degree don't know where to "Draw The Line"!

Originally posted by ForkandSpoon

Masons don't do anything else but Charity.

As to the original poster....please ignore half of what you hear here about Freemasonry, even so called "experts" rarely have a clue about what masonry is about as they have no experience to filter rubbish and myth from truth. Also many masons sadly do not know as much today, because beyond doing the basic essential to perform rituals, few go beyond to study and research history and meaning anymore.

The problem with all this, of course, is who has the right view on what Freemasonry is?

Freemasons recognize no authority.

That's why if you ask two Freemasons, you'll get three opinions.

The only outward sign Freemasons show to the world, is their participation in various Charities.

They don't build boats, fight wars, play politics, preach religions, etc..at least not overtly.

Their covert work is unknown. And probably differs greatly from lodge to lodge depending on the nature and interests of the men.

So, some might be plotting to overthrow governments in secret, while others might be more interested in secretly taking over the local Rotary Club.

Whatever they do, is the interests of men. But, they never tell of these things.

They talk about everything else, but what they are doing right now. So. they'll tell you about all the great historical figures who were Freemasons, and who wrote the Constitutions and Laws of the lodge, and the historical development of rituals, and now many degrees it takes to install a light bulb. But, none of those things are meaningful. It's all misdirection. We know this because there is too much "babble" in Freemasonry. The noise is designed to hide the essential content.

reply to post by Agoyahtah

So, some might be plotting to overthrow governments in secret, while others might be more interested in secretly taking over the local Rotary Club

Fiji.

That is what my Lodge plans to take over. Fiji. Seriously. It has been discussed, and we think we can do it with 4 men, LOL!

Originally posted by Agoyahtah

Originally posted by ForkandSpoon

Masons don't do anything else but Charity.

As to the original poster....please ignore half of what you hear here about Freemasonry, even so called "experts" rarely have a clue about what masonry is about as they have no experience to filter rubbish and myth from truth. Also many masons sadly do not know as much today, because beyond doing the basic essential to perform rituals, few go beyond to study and research history and meaning anymore.

The problem with all this, of course, is who has the right view on what Freemasonry is?

Freemasons recognize no authority.

That's why if you ask two Freemasons, you'll get three opinions.

The only outward sign Freemasons show to the world, is their participation in various Charities.

They don't build boats, fight wars, play politics, preach religions, etc..at least not overtly.

Their covert work is unknown. And probably differs greatly from lodge to lodge depending on the nature and interests of the men.

So, some might be plotting to overthrow governments in secret, while others might be more interested in secretly taking over the local Rotary Club.

Whatever they do, is the interests of men. But, they never tell of these things.

They talk about everything else, but what they are doing right now. So. they'll tell you about all the great historical figures who were Freemasons, and who wrote the Constitutions and Laws of the lodge, and the historical development of rituals, and now many degrees it takes to install a light bulb. But, none of those things are meaningful. It's all misdirection. We know this because there is too much "babble" in Freemasonry. The noise is designed to hide the essential content.

I've seen all of our work laid out on these forums - over and over. Sometimes, the statements have been made in direct response to YOU. But it doesn't matter. You - and people like you - are uninterested in what Masons have to say. You are only interested in reading your words on the screen.

It kind of makes one wonder why you bother to type out these messages in a forum like this. You would be just as happy keeping a blog where you were your only reader.

Originally posted by NeutralGuard

I've seen all of our work laid out on these forums - over and over. Sometimes, the statements have been made in direct response to YOU. But it doesn't matter. You - and people like you - are uninterested in what Masons have to say. You are only interested in reading your words on the screen.

It kind of makes one wonder why you bother to type out these messages in a forum like this. You would be just as happy keeping a blog where you were your only reader.

Hmmm..maybe what the guy was saying is that some masons can't represent all masons, and there are things about Freemasonry that even some masons don't know?

reply to post by GreatOwl


There's likely things about masonry that NO masons know.....anymore. We're full of symbols, and and intuitive learning system that has gone through many ages, and many change in trends and values....the core principles remain, but on some topics you'll get 5 different views if you ask 5 different masons. All might even be well researched and footnoted.... It's not about different grades, or elite inner circles.....it's about getting a plan of action and the tools to work on it, and how much you accomplish is how much effort you put into it....the degrees are easy.....but we give the degrees before the work is done....not after. Only the mason, and his creator has any idea how much he has accomplished......it is very much an internal labor.

Agoyahtah

You sound like a very bitter person as if you were Blackballed.Is that it? Did a lodge find you NOT favorable?

Was Masonry not what you thought it was and now you have to make up your own version of what you THINK it is? Your thoughts on Charity and how the Lodge uses it is far from the truth. I would question your very basic understanding of what Charity is. You have been misguided, lied to, or led astray on how Charity works.

First Charity is NOT always monetary. As some one told you in an earlier post and I'm sure you've heard it at least once while living on this earth that Charity is not given from the pocket/wallet, it is given from the Heart!

When you give from the heart Charity comes in many forms. It comes in a listening ear, a ride to work, school and church, It comes in the form of someone consoling you in a time of grief, sending food when a family has fallen on hard times, mowing your elderly neighbors lawn and making sure she has water when the temp. outside reaches over 100 degress. And guess what, heres the kicker we don't ask a thing in return, we don't ask for money for our service NOR we don't ask for ANY recognition. But you know what we do ask for though? We ask that they contact us if they need us again.

Also as many have stated you don't have to be a Mason to do this. You only have to have a giving heart...Do you have one? Is it filled with betterness, resentment and poison? All these Freemasons on this board/thread is telling you the SAME THING. Why do you choice to not believe them or ignore, debate, and villify their actions?

So before you go spreading misinformation about how a lodge operate and it's charity KNOW what you are talking about because right now you sound utterly ridiculous.