What would my grandad have known as a 3rd degree mason?

reply to post by GreatOwl


What Powell received was "honorary". You recognize that concept, no?

We don't do royalty or titles or such here in the US. We do however have a similar award given by the Preisdent called the Medal of Freedom. It's been given out to-

Mother Teresa
Lech Walesa
Margaret Thatcher
Tony Blair
John Howard
Stephen Hawking

Amongst other non-American recipients. Now answer my question-

Reputable source for Powell as Freemason.

You stated it. Own it.

Originally posted by GreatOwl
But he is an American, General of the Armed Forces, sworn to uphold the constitution, the same constitution that forbids officials from receiving honors and titles from foreign states...

Which article of the Constitution does this appear?

Answer me this, and I will go away pernanently from this thread, and n'er bother a mason to answer these difficult questions agin, "Give me the name of one British citizen who has received an Honorary Title from an American President" .

Really?

Winston Churchill received and the title of Honorary Citizen of the United States of America, one of only seven foreign nationals to ever receive this honor. President Kennedy made this proclamation April 9th, 1963.

Bye!

Which British citizen would recognize the authority of an American President to confer a title upon him?

That would have been your former Prime Minister.

Bye, again!

Originally posted by MrDesolate

Amongst other non-American recipients. Now answer my question-

Reputable source for Powell as Freemason.

You stated it. Own it.

Colin Powell is declared to be a Freemason on many website lists. I don't know what criteria you use to determine "reputable". Are Masonic Lodges "reputable"? If so, here is a bona fide Masonic Lodge that lists Colin Powell as a Freemason,

mastermason.com...

along with many other sites, like,

www.satuitlodge.com...

and

beaconofmasoniclight.blogspot.ca...

etc..

he is represented as symbolic of masonry.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by GreatOwl
But he is an American, General of the Armed Forces, sworn to uphold the constitution, the same constitution that forbids officials from receiving honors and titles from foreign states...

Which article of the Constitution does this appear?

Article I, Section 9.

No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.

SOURCE: www.law.cornell.edu...

Ain't google marvelous, with a couple of clicks...all answers are there...

Winston Churchill received and the title of Honorary Citizen of the United States of America, one of only seven foreign nationals to ever receive this honor. President Kennedy made this proclamation April 9th, 1963.

Sorry, but making someone a "citizen" doesn't count as title. That's no higher than any other citizen. Now give me something substantial, like a Knight, or Lord, or some "elevation" of status.

reply to post by GreatOwl
The only reputable sites in my opinion provide a Lodge name and number and dates for initiation, passing and raising. Unless I see that information, I generally disregard the claim even if it was made on a Lodge's web-site.

Originally posted by GreatOwl
I don't know what criteria you use to determine "reputable".

My apologies. You're apparently a neophyte at research, which should've been self-evident given the content of your postings.

What I mean is, something other than a website that any goof can put together. Some reputable biographical source, not just a home made site that can include any nonsense anyone who does no more research than you do can cobble together.

That's what criteria I use.

I'll wait.

Originally posted by GreatOwl
mastermason.com...

Australian website, creator doesn't know what he's talking about, because he also thinks Bush and Reagan were Masons. They were not.

www.satuitlodge.com...

Overzealous webmaster. He lists Walt Disney, who wasn't; Reagan, who wasn't; McCain, who wasn't; Aleister Crowley, who was a member of a clandestine (not recognized) lodge; and the photo posted of Rudyard Kipling isn't even Rudyard Kipling, it was taken by the amazing Andrzej Dragan. Obviously the webmaster doesn't have an eye for research. (Dragan took the picture in 2004; Kipling died in 1936…)

beaconofmasoniclight.blogspot.ca...

he is represented as symbolic of masonry.

More specifically, it's just quoting Powell's essay on leadership. But it doesn't say Powell is a Mason.

Originally posted by GreatOwl

No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.

SOURCE: www.law.cornell.edu...

Ain't google marvelous, with a couple of clicks...all answers are there...

It is, but understanding is much better. You did notice the part about hold office, right? Colin Powell was retired when he received that knighthood. It really helps if you have good reading comprehension when you are reading.

Sorry, but making someone a "citizen" doesn't count as title. That's no higher than any other citizen. Now give me something substantial, like a Knight, or Lord, or some "elevation" of status.

Sorry, when the President calls it an honorary title then it is obviously an honorary title. Being that we do not have absurd titles in the United States like 'king' and 'lord' it would be quite impossible to grant someone something that does not exist. This is the highest honor the United States can bestwo upon a foreign national.

Now stick to your statement.

Originally posted by GreatOwl

Originally posted by Noble01
[What I'm getting at here is ALL of these public servants took an Oath to serve you.

As long as they haven't taken "another oath" somewhere else, that would contradict their oath to serve me, I see no problem with their public oaths. Their actions taken under their public oaths are subject to my review, which is as it should be.

Now you are moving the goal post. You have much to learn.....lolo

GreatOwl, now, see didn't I tell you to do your research before addressing claims on this board. I warned you.

reply to post by GreatOwl

Not anymore he is not. He is retired if you had not heard.

I don't know, nor do I really care about if any Brit has received an American honor.

Why are you so nosey?

American Freemasonry is below British Freemasonry, and takes it's order from UGLE, else, the situation of titles would be reversed, and the Brits would be "coming to america" to get their titles instead of the other way around.

This is completely wrong. The UGLE has no authority over the Grand Lodges in America or any other Grand Lodge around the world. You are making things up now.

reply to post by GreatOwl

You really have no concept of freedom do you? I don't care who my employer is, they don't have the right to intrude on my rights just because they are paying me. If they are paying me, they are paying me for services rendered. I provide a service and they in turn give me money, that money is mine to do what I want with and they have no right to demand anything of that would violate my Constitutional rights. What I do on my own time within the limits of the laws is not my bosses business.

Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by GreatOwl

 

The only reputable sites in my opinion provide a Lodge name and number and dates for initiation, passing and raising. Unless I see that information, I generally disregard the claim even if it was made on a Lodge's web-site.

To me, one mason's claim is as good as any other mason's claim. One says he is, another says he isn't, but what is new? Masons have always contradicted each other. Whatever is convenient to claim at a particular time, it is that which is said, and the contrary position is denied, until such time as it seems convenient, like being proud that someone like Colin Powell is also a Freemason. That's how masons hoodwink new recruits into the fold. By claiming this or that famous personality was a Freemason, hence by implication Freemasonry must be a great institution that nurtures these types of peoples...etc..we'd have to be completely blind not to see all this is part of the art and skill of the practice of the craft.

Originally posted by MrDesolate

What I mean is, something other than a website that any goof can put together.

I would not call a Freemason a goof. If a Lodge put up a website, then surely the higher ups in that Lodge would review the content to determine that it was appropriate, and a reflection of Freemasonry from that Lodge's point of view. Everything there is put there for a reason.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

It is, but understanding is much better. You did notice the part about hold office, right? Colin Powell was retired when he received that knighthood. It really helps if you have good reading comprehension when you are reading.

Yes, I know, and they know, that's why all these officials "wait" until they leave office before "accepting" the honor.

But, the point is, why accept it afterwords, if the constitution forbids it for current officials? Presumably, they haven't lost any "patriotism" by just leaving office, they are still the same men who worked there, and these honors conferred by the foreign state is for work done "while they were in office" and not for anything done afterwords ! @ ! @ !

Understanding is key.

Sorry, when the President calls it an honorary title then it is obviously an honorary title.

The title of "citizen" is held by 300 million Americans, it obviously doesn't count. The title of "Knight" is reserved for the few. It's a real title. An elevation of man above men. That's the point of the title. In America, everyone is equal, except for their cash balance.

What happened to my thread haha

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
What happened to my thread haha

Well, a lot of masons came forward and presented what they thought were good answers to your original question.

So, now you know what your granddad would have known at the 3rd degree.

I can assure you he would have known no more nor less than any 3rd degree mason presenting here.

They all have different information, but the same knowledge.

reply to post by GreatOwl

It's not that we are contradicting each other, but some are using false information and we are correcting the information. It's been asked: What Lodge did he belong to? What are his initiation dates? If he's a 33rd what Valley does he belong to? When did he join the Scottish Rite? When did he receive the KCCH and when did he receive the 33rd?

I'd love to claim Gen. Powell as a Mason, but there is very little evidence of his membership.

reply to post by GreatOwl

You are again showing that you know very little to how Freemasonry, and Lodges in particular, operate.

reply to post by GreatOwl

So even if they are waiting until an appropriate time, you're still denouncing them? Well, I guess haters are going to hate.

From the sounds of it, you're willing to lock up and denigrate anyone who you don't agree with.

reply to post by Wonderer2012

This is what is known as 'hijacked'

Originally posted by GreatOwl
They all have different information, but the same knowledge.

Says the non-member.

Originally posted by GreatOwl

Originally posted by network dude
Does your employer know your sexual preference?

I'm not in the Armed forces, if that's what you mean. So, my employer didn't think to ask that question. But, if he did, I'd have no problem answering it. I'm heterosexual. I see no reason to keep it secret.

See, you are arguing that anyone on a payroll is not allowed to have any secrets.

If you're paying my salary, you can ask me anything you like. What I decide to answer will depend on how much you're paying me, how much my secrets are worth to me, and a weighing of the balance of these two things. I can always quit the job, if I don't like the requirements to reveal any particular secrets, like submitting to a urine test to see if I take drugs, or whatever. The point is, you can ask, if you're paying.

edit on 30-8-2012 by GreatOwl because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-8-2012 by GreatOwl because: (no reason given)

So you have zero integrity. All it takes is some money and you will spill your guts. Don't ever join masonry. Ever.

edit on 31-8-2012 by network dude because: Augustusmasonicus won't share his beer

edit on 31-8-2012 by network dude because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by network dude
Don't ever join masonry. Ever.

edit on 31-8-2012 by network dude because: Augustusmasonicus won't

Very wise advice there, I must say. extra DIV