What would my grandad have known as a 3rd degree mason?

Originally posted by KSigMason
FYI, I'm a National Guardsman, former full-timer, and most who know me know that I am a Mason as I'm not shy about my membership and I wear a ring, but the second something like what England had came down the pipeline I would take my ring off and refuse to answer. I would hope that others, particularly public officials, had the fortitude to do the same and fight unconstitutional intrusion.

That's ok. You can retire from public service. Be thanked for the years of service you provided. Pick up your last paycheck. And from hence, continue to receive the wages of a mason, as any private individual is entitled to.

Originally posted by MrDesolate
reply to post by GreatOwl

 

They're dudes in a frat. Get over yourself. If there are any groups of uberpowerful stringpullers, they ain't in the lodge on the corner.

No they ain't in the lodge at the corner, since that lodge takes its orders from a central lodge, which takes it's orders from another, all the way to UGLE. And finally, the Monarch tells them what to do, and "Knights" them when they behave well, in the service of her kingdom.

reply to post by GreatOwl


what version of Freemasonry are you talking about?

In the US, the lodges are subservient to their respective grand lodge. None of the grand lodges are subservient to any other group or lodge. Each state has it's own grand lodge.

For someone who thinks they know all about freemasonry, you sure don't know very much at all.

Originally posted by GreatOwl


I'm using a different kind of information. I don't need to know what the secrets of Freemasonry are. Only the higher ups in Freemasonry are expected to know these things. All I need to know is that there are secrets in existence. That leads to the question "why". Why would it be necessary to keep secrets? Regardless of the exact content of those secrets, the need for secrecy tells me that something contrary to publicity is involved.

edit on 30-8-2012 by GreatOwl because: (no reason given)

In other words , you do not know jack sh*t . You blindly hate Freemasonry because YOU THINK we are keeping secrets from all of humanity . LOL , if you only knew how benign and sometimes BORING our meetings were , you would kick yourself for wasting your hate on us when there is real evil in the world to hate .

But , if it makes you happy , by all means sit in your Mother's basement and hate on us . You need to blame all your woes on someone , it might as well be us .

Originally posted by GreatOwl
No they ain't in the lodge at the corner, since that lodge takes its orders from a central lodge, which takes it's orders from another, all the way to UGLE. And finally, the Monarch tells them what to do, and "Knights" them when they behave well, in the service of her kingdom.

Well good thing the majority of us here live in the United States where we do not have to worry about silly things like the monarchy and have the Constitution to protect our privacies from over-zealous persons such as yourself that wish to impinge on them.

Originally posted by GreatOwl
No they ain't in the lodge at the corner, since that lodge takes its orders from a central lodge, which takes it's orders from another, all the way to UGLE. And finally, the Monarch tells them what to do, and "Knights" them when they behave well, in the service of her kingdom.

And she takes her orders from M'yarlhtep the Elder God from deep space.

See eventually you guys, who I'm convinced have the best of intentions, expose yourselves as having no knowledge at all, but a lot of specious logic derived from any number of discredited and flat incorrect sources. It's a veritable circus of nincompoopery and paranoid delusion.

But everyone needs a hobby.

Originally posted by MrDesolate
And she takes her orders from M'yarlhtep the Elder God from deep space.

Did you mean Nyarlathotep?

The Goat with a Thousand Young is gonna be really pissed at you for getting his friend's name confused....

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Did you mean Nyarlathotep?

Hardly. Nyarlathotep is so last millennium. You must have missed some meetings.

reply to post by GreatOwl

There is no sinister manipulation to better someone. Such foolishness notions you have.

Originally posted by GreatOwl
Only the higher ups in Freemasonry are expected to know these things.

How do you know?

Why would it be necessary to keep secrets?

Everyone has secrets. There is nothing wrong with secrecy or what it is privacy.

Now, when we hire a public servant, they are expected to serve publicly, so that the services they provide us with is open to inspection and review by those who have hired them, which is us, the general public.

They still have a private life to which you are not allowed to intrude upon.

So, if we know that a particular public servant is a Freemason, that tells us immediately that part of his activities are contrary to the public good.

How? What assumption do you have that everything that Freemasonry does is against public good?

What have we done that is against public good?

The mere fact that it is secret and private is sufficient knowledge for us to judge that it is against the public good.

No it doesn't. Privacy and essentially secrecy is a Constitutional right. You have no right, no entitlement to judge us nor are we bound to satisfy your unfounded paranoia or suspicions. Such irrational and illogical thinking you have.

reply to post by GreatOwl

If a public servant uses his wages to pay his dues that doesn't give you anymore right as Freemasonry is not a illegal enterprise so you have no leg to stand on to demand to enter our halls or force a public servant off of our membership rosters.

reply to post by GreatOwl

So my 1st Amendment rights and doing nothing illegal is grounds for removal? That is fascism and I will not stand for it. Plus if I'm targeted specifically for the registry that is illegal and I would fight it in courts as I was targeted and segregated. If it was a mass registry and they had no way to verify as they cannot force the Grand Lodges to divulge the membership lists without violating the Constitution they could no confirm so they could not kick me out as they, in end the end, could not verify.

In this society, one could not force a membership registry through without violating rights.

Public servants still have rights. To say we're limited is ignorant and unfounded. Nowhere does it say that we're limited in rights and privileges of our fellow citizens.

Thank God the Constitution exists to protect us from your type of fascist thinking.

reply to post by GreatOwl

This is horribly wrong. The UGLE is not the central hub of all Freemasonry. They are just one Grand Lodge among the numerous around the globe. There is no central hub that controls the Grand Lodges; each one is independent and sovereign. No one Grand Lodge can usurp the authority of another.

The leadership of each Grand Lodge is selected by electoral ballot submitted by the voting members of that particular Grand Lodge. The Grand Master serves but is not supreme in authority as he is bound by the restraints placed in the Constitution and By-Laws.

You are coming up with all sorts of bad information. They are simply untrue.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Well good thing the majority of us here live in the United States where we do not have to worry about silly things like the monarchy and have the Constitution to protect our privacies from over-zealous persons such as yourself that wish to impinge on them.

And yet, Colin Powell, 33rd Degree Freemason received his Knighthood from the Queen..an interesting paradox, unless you accept the Monarch as your figure head.

Originally posted by GreatOwl
And yet, Colin Powell, 33rd Degree Freemason received his Knighthood from the Queen..an interesting paradox, unless you accept the Monarch as your figure head.

Except for the little fact that Powell isn't even a Mason, much less a 33°…

source

Originally posted by KSigMason

What have we done that is against public good?

You have taken our good public servants, and twisted their minds, and made them believe it is good to keep secrets from us, denying us, the general public, the usual right to inspect and review their work in proper and righteous fashion, as it aught.

No it doesn't. Privacy and essentially secrecy is a Constitutional right. You have no right, no entitlement to judge us nor are we bound to satisfy your unfounded paranoia or suspicions. Such irrational and illogical thinking you have.

If secrecy and privacy were constitutional rights, then George Bush Jr. could not order wiretapping of phonelines, without violating the constitution and being impeached, unless, of course, he was the member of some secret brotherhood, with allegiance to some "higher" principle than the constitution of the united states.

If a public servant uses his wages to pay his dues that doesn't give you anymore right as Freemasonry is not a illegal enterprise so you have no leg to stand on to demand to enter our halls or force a public servant off of our membership rosters.

Nice how you twist that around. It's not the mason paying his dues that is of issue, but the wages received by the mason from Freemasonry, that is telling to us in the public that he serves another interest than the public good.

So my 1st Amendment rights and doing nothing illegal is grounds for removal?

That's the problem with secrecy, who reviews the activity to decide if it's legal?

reply to post by GreatOwl


Now I have to seriously call you out on your nonsense. Yes, Gen Powell was awarded an honorary knighthood.

Find me ONE reputable source anywhere that identifies Gen Powell as a Freemason, much less the apparent dreaded and nefarious 33rd degree.

I don't think it would matter since one has nothing to do with the other, but just as an exercise in accuracy, give me one source that isn't some fringe loon nutbag Internet website bullsquat source that shows Powell is, or was ever, a member of Freemasonry.

We'll wait.

reply to post by GreatOwl


And just where did you hear that from?

I think it's very clear that you are being misled by the Google. It's an amazing tool if you use it right. If you use it wrong, all it does is makes you look like a tool.

Originally posted by GreatOwl

Originally posted by Noble01
And you are not paying Freemasons to do anything for YOU. So why do you need to know about what goes on behind closed doors.

As long as we are not paying any who are members of Freemasonry we demand nothing of Freemasons.

Wow You are so lost right now....Please do your research. What you will find you may be so ashamed of the things you've said that you'll be tempted to deleted every post you've wrote on Freemasonry.

BTW...Since you are so against Oaths and Secrecy If you ever need the assistance of a police officer tell the 911 dispatch operator to not send out a policeman who has taken an Oath. If you ever need emergency surgery make sure you tell the ER Surgeon that he cannot save your life because he has taken an Oath. If you ever need legal help consult with the attorney before you sign the papers because you don't want any representation from a lawyer who has taken an oath. Of course wouldn't wish these things on you but you should be careful of what you say and the things you deem wrong.

These are just a few professions that takes an Oath.

reply to post by GreatOwl


Now it's getting a bit stinky in here with all that crap on your boots. You really should stop stepping in it.
But I do have a question for you. Does your employer know your sexual preference? Does your employer know how you like it? Does your employer know what you did to the dog that you were really ashamed of, but never told anyone?

See, you are arguing that anyone on a payroll is not allowed to have any secrets. You have secrets you keep. therefore, you can either quit work,(assuming you aren't a couch surfer) or you can march into your bosses office and tell him all about your private life. We wouldn't want you to be a hypocrite now would we?

reply to post by GreatOwl

Twisted their minds? With what? What exactly is twisted? What one of our virtues and lessons are wrong?

Except you have no right to "inspect and review".

GW was wrong, IMO, with the Patriot Act as we do indeed have a Constitutional right to privacy and secrecy. Are you familiar with the 4th Amendment? Are you familiar with the 1st Amendment?

The wages of Freemasonry are symbolic. You assume Freemasonry tells its members to serve its interest above all others and that Freemasonry is so large and intrusive into our daily lives. It isn't and we don't.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by GreatOwl
And yet, Colin Powell, 33rd Degree Freemason received his Knighthood from the Queen..an interesting paradox, unless you accept the Monarch as your figure head.

Except for the little fact that Powell isn't even a Mason, much less a 33°…

source

edit on 2012.8.30 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)

But he is an American, General of the Armed Forces, sworn to uphold the constitution, the same constitution that forbids officials from receiving honors and titles from foreign states, and yet, despite all this we know, he still gets his Knighthood from the Monarch of Britain. Why else, would he accept, if not for the fact that he recognizes that Monarch as his head.

Answer me this, and I will go away pernanently from this thread, and n'er bother a mason to answer these difficult questions agin, "Give me the name of one British citizen who has received an Honorary Title from an American President" .

Which British citizen would recognize the authority of an American President to confer a title upon him?

Would the President dare Knight "Tony Blair", for example, conferring upon him and Honorary title of "Knight of America" ?

Why not?

If America doesn't confer these titles upon foreigners, why are American citizens rushing to accept such titles from foreign states?

The recognition of an authority to confer a title is the acceptance of an hierarchy in the order of things.

American Freemasonry is below British Freemasonry, and takes it's order from UGLE, else, the situation of titles would be reversed, and the Brits would be "coming to america" to get their titles instead of the other way around.

As Ronald Regan, President of America demonstrated, the Queen has power to confer an honor to an American President, but the President has no power to confer a corresponding title onto the Queen.

Originally posted by Noble01
[What I'm getting at here is ALL of these public servants took an Oath to serve you.

As long as they haven't taken "another oath" somewhere else, that would contradict their oath to serve me, I see no problem with their public oaths. Their actions taken under their public oaths are subject to my review, which is as it should be.

Originally posted by network dude
Does your employer know your sexual preference?

I'm not in the Armed forces, if that's what you mean. So, my employer didn't think to ask that question. But, if he did, I'd have no problem answering it. I'm heterosexual. I see no reason to keep it secret.

See, you are arguing that anyone on a payroll is not allowed to have any secrets.

If you're paying my salary, you can ask me anything you like. What I decide to answer will depend on how much you're paying me, how much my secrets are worth to me, and a weighing of the balance of these two things. I can always quit the job, if I don't like the requirements to reveal any particular secrets, like submitting to a urine test to see if I take drugs, or whatever. The point is, you can ask, if you're paying.