Poll shows atheism on the rise in the U.S.

Religions been dying, I say good riddance.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

lol I love he fact that you think you can so assume what I have experienced in my life and that my mind is too weak to handle any hardships and would be forced to latch onto some "transcendental referent".

It's not assuming buddy. Just like it's not an assumption to say outright "you can't beat Aids or destroy Lou gehrigs"; these diseases simply run their course. True, one can think right and try to make the best of it, but that doesn't affect the pathology of it. Similarly, as a student of psychology - I have a degree in this subject - and someone quite knowledgeable of the chaos magick crap you're probably interested in (or at the very least, I imagine you subscribe to some Nietzschean philosophy) - I know how emotions, complexes, in short, how psychosomatogenic neuroses work.

Some people simply have the fortune of never having to encounter these issues in life, which instills in them this imagined and quite illusory sense of 'invincibility' before mental illness; but don't be so proud of your power. If subjected to the same circumstances you too would seek help from without your self. Or else, as you quite assuredly tell me, would prefer to suffer than admit weakness and need, as if scarcity weren't something inherent to the human condition.

Or maybe your problem is just not understanding the nature of your own psyche. I don't know. All I know is, once something latches on, gains steam - watch out! you're in for a ride. Man has this pesty habit of believing himself to be a god - just as nietzsche, who spent the latter part of his days confined to a bed being tended to by his sister - help from without for an ubermensch? See how God mocks man? What he received from his sister contradicted much of his ethos, that the weak and disabled should be hated, and that the strong shouldn't condescend and allow unnatural emotions to prevent them from reaching the heights.

In any case, when you experience emotional and bodily exhaustion, when you can't sleep, when electric shocks frighten you into consciousness - when the thought of a looming insanity haunts you - than, you might think again about your power.

Like I said, the self finds repose in the non-self. Which is beyond the self, which is to say, is the definitively 'other'. It's a referent that you turn to. Followers of Judaism, Christianity and Islam follow the Creator God who is responsible for all, while Hindus, depending on persuasion, subscribe to a specific referent whom they worship.

Simply because you can't imagine such a mentality or nature doesn't make it impossible. Your perspective is flawed.

I can imagine it just fine. I've read Nietzsche and Camus and Satre. I've read Crowley and his philosophy of 'will'; it's nonsense, and he demonstrated firsthand how nonsensical it is. Someone who preached "willpower" couldn't even overpower his obsessions - his addictions to drugs.. Proving two things: the folly of human arrogance, and the feebleness of man before the demons he creates.

reply to post by Hefficide

BUT... having said all that... Gen-Text will begin to age - and as they do they'll begin to fear mortality and I would bet dollars to doughnuts that many of them become religious later on in life. Right now there's just too much fun to be had to worry about such esoteric things.

.


Ah yes! I'd bet dollars to donuts that most of us can attest to this! But alas, my beliefs are strengthened by many lifelong experiences which affirm God in my world. Here is a little thought to ponder: If there were no God, there would be no Atheists. ~G.K. Chesterton

WONDERFUL news. There really is hope for America.

The Nations with the highest standard of living and the lowest crime are also those with the lowest level of "religious belief".

reply to post by dontreally

It's not assuming buddy. Just like it's not an assumption to say outright "you can't beat Aids or destroy Lou gehrigs"; these diseases simply run their course.

You are assuming everything. You don't know me and you don't know what I have experienced. You are making assumptions based on what you think you know. We are talking about a very subjective topic here, things that are difficult to test and things that can't be explicitly measured and quantized, there is absolutely zero logic in your comparison to AIDS and your analogy is absolutely void of any meaning.

Similarly, as a student of psychology - I have a degree in this subject - and someone quite knowledgeable of the chaos magick crap you're probably interested in (or at the very least, I imagine you subscribe to some Nietzschean philosophy) - I know how emotions, complexes, in short, how psychosomatogenic neuroses work.

lol we have a genius here folks. I have zero interest in "Chaos Magick" and if you were as smart as you think you are you would know that my username and avatar relate to Discordianism, which is, put simply, a philosophy where chaos (as in not-order) is given more understanding and respect within the framework of our reality, rather than being ignored and cast aside out of fear and misunderstanding of what chaos really is.

Some people simply have the fortune of never having to encounter these issues in life, which instills in them this imagined and quite illusory sense of 'invincibility' before mental illness; but don't be so proud of your power.

Here's your first logical misunderstanding. You think independence from any exterior source of power outside of ones self is the result of ones self feeling a sense of 'invincibility'... but you're quite wrong sir, there is another important reason for such a disconnection: proof. I simply don't latch onto any external godly power because I don't believe such a thing exists in the traditional sense. Actually I am agnostic, I accept the fact some sort of omnipresent consciousness exists but that doesn't provide any logical reasoning for assuming such a being would know or care about me, let alone help me in any way were I to ask it for help

You see I understand very well that I am no where near invincible, I am just a biological entity, one whom is very capable of being hurt and injured. There's nothing special or godly about me, I'm nothing but a human being. A human being who feels that based on all my experience and the evidence available to me, that even if a "God" exists it will not provide any help to me for any reason and there is absolutely zero reason to rely on help from such an external source. I prefer to help myself and take action myself to make a difference, rather than pray to an invisible, probably non-existent entity, for help and direction. I help myself and carve out my own direction, I am my own being and I have no master who owns me.

If subjected to the same circumstances you too would seek help from without your self. Or else, as you quite assuredly tell me, would prefer to suffer than admit weakness and need, as if scarcity weren't something inherent to the human condition.

Yes I will easily admit I have weaknesses. I have many weaknesses. What is so wrong about that? No one is perfect my good man... preferring to suffer has nothing to do with it, I simply believe I'm going to suffer whether or not I beg some invisible entity for help or not. And quite frankly I don't like to rely on invisible entities and call on their help and guidance merely when it suites my needs and then ignore them the rest of the time. As I already stated, I prefer to take action my self, use real methods and seek real answers for solving any problem that I may face.

And now I suggest you try and wrap your brain around these concepts, because there's nothing amazing or extraordinary about them. Not everyone is so mentally weak they need to fall back for support onto some godly power they imagine exists. Yes I'm weak and exposed to many of life's problems as a mortal being, but that does not mean I need to rely on a religious mental crutch. Yes it's true a great number of people are very weak minded and fall back onto such mental crutches when ever it suites them, but you truly underestimate how strong minded a lot of other people are.

Originally posted by elrem48
reply to post by Hefficide

 

BUT... having said all that... Gen-Text will begin to age - and as they do they'll begin to fear mortality and I would bet dollars to doughnuts that many of them become religious later on in life. Right now there's just too much fun to be had to worry about such esoteric things.

.


Ah yes! I'd bet dollars to donuts that most of us can attest to this! But alas, my beliefs are strengthened by many lifelong experiences which affirm God in my world. Here is a little thought to ponder: If there were no God, there would be no Atheists. ~G.K. Chesterton

My parents were born in the 20's & 30's - and have lost faith as they grew older.

I was born in the 50's and had decided religion is nonsense by the mid-70's.

One of the things about being an atheist is that you do NOT have to worry about the afterlife AT ALL. Once you accept that you are simply gone when you are dead all stuff S about heaven/hell, afterlife, etc., is simply meaningless and you do not have a reason to bother with it ever again.

Originally posted by SpearMint
Good. The human race is becoming more intelligent.

Unless what Religion points to, is something enlightening and eternal, like an inheritance prepared for us from before the foundation of the world whereby the Bible is a prophtetic framework pointing to this realization.

Thus throwing all that away for a secular humanism, which can lead to cataclysm when put to the test by crisis amid competing "rational self interest" might not, in the final analyis be so intelligent after all..

It's quite possible that the ancient wisdom literature still has something of great value and import to share, and to teach us.

Why cast us adrift on the ocean of history without a rudder, or a lighthouse?

I don't think that's so intelligent.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
One of the things about being an atheist is that you do NOT have to worry about the afterlife AT ALL. Once you accept that you are simply gone when you are dead all stuff ...

And if you're wrong? What if the truth of the matter is that we are already stuck in eternity without escape such that there is and can be nothing that is not? What if materialist monism (where matter alone is primary and consiousness nothing but an epiphenomenon of matter) is false, and a monistic idealism (consciousness is the ground of all being and becoming and matter, a manifestation of consciousness in a downward causation from a first/last cause) the only way that all the quantum paradoxes can be satisfactorily resolved, what then? If that were the case, you could believe all you want that you're "wormfood" and that life is meaningless and insigificant, but it won't help you when you find your consciousness still existing after your present body has succumbed (see all the NDE experiences for more).

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

lol I love he fact that you think you can so assume what I have experienced in my life and that my mind is too weak to handle any hardships and would be forced to latch onto some "transcendental referent".

It's not assuming buddy. Just like it's not an assumption to say outright "you can't beat Aids or destroy Lou gehrigs"; these diseases simply run their course. True, one can think right and try to make the best of it, but that doesn't affect the pathology of it. Similarly, as a student of psychology - I have a degree in this subject - and someone quite knowledgeable of the chaos magick crap you're probably interested in (or at the very least, I imagine you subscribe to some Nietzschean philosophy) - I know how emotions, complexes, in short, how psychosomatogenic neuroses work.

Some people simply have the fortune of never having to encounter these issues in life, which instills in them this imagined and quite illusory sense of 'invincibility' before mental illness; but don't be so proud of your power. If subjected to the same circumstances you too would seek help from without your self. Or else, as you quite assuredly tell me, would prefer to suffer than admit weakness and need, as if scarcity weren't something inherent to the human condition.

Or maybe your problem is just not understanding the nature of your own psyche. I don't know. All I know is, once something latches on, gains steam - watch out! you're in for a ride. Man has this pesty habit of believing himself to be a god - just as nietzsche, who spent the latter part of his days confined to a bed being tended to by his sister - help from without for an ubermensch? See how God mocks man?

What he received from his sister contradicted much of his ethos, that the weak and disabled should be hated, and that the strong shouldn't condescend and allow unnatural emotions to prevent them from reaching the heights.

In any case, when you experience emotional and bodily exhaustion, when you can't sleep, when electric shocks frighten you into consciousness - when the thought of a looming insanity haunts you - than, you might think again about your power.

Like I said, the self finds repose in the non-self. Which is beyond the self, which is to say, is the definitively 'other'. It's a referent that you turn to. Followers of Judaism, Christianity and Islam follow the Creator God who is responsible for all, while Hindus, depending on persuasion, subscribe to a specific referent whom they worship.

Simply because you can't imagine such a mentality or nature doesn't make it impossible. Your perspective is flawed.

I can imagine it just fine. I've read Nietzsche and Camus and Satre. I've read Crowley and his philosophy of 'will'; it's nonsense, and he demonstrated firsthand how nonsensical it is. Someone who preached "willpower" couldn't even overpower his obsessions - his addictions to drugs.. Proving two things: the folly of human arrogance, and the feebleness of man before the demons he creates.

WOAH, WOAH, WOAH hold on there.... Chaoticorder, that IS a fair point, we don't know you personally and have no idea of your hardships, your right. I am in a similar boat in that i agree with you when you say you don't need some "higher Power" to latch on to and you can stand on your own two feet, but unfortunatley some people do, we just need to remember to not put all the eggs in one basket.

Nietzschean philosophy however can teach you great things like HOW to stand on your own two feet WITHOUT needing a cruch such as this, just because you may not agree with it dosn't mean others don't.

YES it is true that right before the direct onset of a manic episode you feel you are invincable (trust me i've done it) but if you learn to use and control that power in a sane frame of mind it is like living life on a higher level. also not sure if i'm understanding you here correctly but are you trying to say that a lack of faith in a higher being leads to mantal illness? excuse me sir/mam but i find this remark RATHER OFFENCIVE!

and trust me in if your in a manic state with no sleep THE LAST THING you think about is being insane, all you know in your head is power power power. alot of people myself included can't even say their own names. 5 days, no sleep living on water and vegetables, try it some time

all philosophers should be respected as well (especially in a place like this) weather you agree with it or not these people spent their lives (succeding or failing depending on your view point) attempting to give us an alternative outlook on life, I mean really all any of them have ever tried to do is try thier best to avoid the world turning out as it is today, so i guess looking at it like that, they all failed.

Love, Light, and all that crap...

There seems to be some religious scholars here on the post and I would like to tender a question. What is it exactly the human race gets from "Free Will"? In addition, can you define "Free Will" as it is specific to the human condition and its metaphysical traits if you take the "Jesus Deal."

Of course it is. Jesus said in the final days there would be scoffers and scorners, the religious will be persecuted.
Lift your heads, for our redemption is near. I feel it deep in my bones.

All part of the antichrists plan: eliminate god, encourage mass murder, immorality, homosexuality. the exact opposite of the teachings of god and his prophets. What is the opposite of the teachings of the prophets: the antichrist. he is working behind the scenes and the groundwork has been laid for his materialization into our universe.

New here, Just posted on the Introduction Forum.........................................
Anyway..............................

1) Has it ever ocurred to anybody that maybe folks are rejecting not God but what they THINK God IS? (I.e. God is the God of the OLD TESTAMENT.................Literally. NOT God of Love but God of Judgement).

2) CAN one REALLY believe in NOTHING??????????

3) Is NOTHING really better than SOMETHING??????????????????

Just wondering..........................................Sigh................................Ultimately, I and many others do n ot have enough Faith to be Atheist. Yep.

reply to post by SeventhSin

See the end of my thread posted in my signature.

I've had a taste of it, of this absolute liberation, and it's of another order of magnitude than any of us have previously realized. I would call it a hyper-freedom capable of causing you to run around, laughing, crying, and laughing some more while exclaiming OMG what do I DO NOW?!

We don't know what real freedom is, or what kind of freedom is really intended for us by the God of love.

"Our liberation is God's compulsion."
~ C.S. Lewis:

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
All part of the antichrists plan: eliminate god, encourage mass murder, immorality, homosexuality. the exact opposite of the teachings of god and his prophets.

Not cool that you included homosexuals with the rest of that list. Also, I'm not religious and most people I know aren't and none of us need religion to prevent us from mass murder or immorality, explain that. That's why it's good to see athiesm is on the rise so that the kind of backward thinking your post displays becomes a thing of the past.

Athiesm on the rise, this is evolution at work, a beautiful sight.

Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
reply to post by AgentX09

 

How many times have people cried wolf regarding the return of Jesus, etc?

There simply isn't an actual being.

Mighty poor logic there, It says...............................

"Since there have been a lot of people who have erroneously, piteously presumed to predict God's business when the Bible itself says 'No man knows the time nor the place' of the Second Coming.................... therefore Jesus does not exist."

Gotcha. Get it. Yep.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
All part of the antichrists plan: eliminate god, encourage mass murder, immorality, homosexuality. the exact opposite of the teachings of god and his prophets. What is the opposite of the teachings of the prophets: the antichrist. he is working behind the scenes and the groundwork has been laid for his materialization into our universe.

I tend to agree with this.

Indeed.

Love your Sig, BTW.

reply to post by silent thunder

I think this is a false comparision.

For example I am not 'religious' but I am certainly not an atheist.

Originally posted by 0rbital

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
All part of the antichrists plan: eliminate god, encourage mass murder, immorality, homosexuality. the exact opposite of the teachings of god and his prophets.

Not cool that you included homosexuals with the rest of that list. Also, I'm not religious and most people I know aren't and none of us need religion to prevent us from mass murder or immorality, explain that. That's why it's good to see athiesm is on the rise so that the kind of backward thinking your post displays becomes a thing of the past.

Athiesm on the rise, this is evolution at work, a beautiful sight.

How do you decide what is or what is not RIGHT, though? (Very condescending post, BTW....but I know.....my opinion).

Are YOU really the best judge of what the truth is, ultimately????????? Since what may be the truth to you may not be the truth to everybody else????????

Just wondering.

Originally posted by dontreally
Fact is, man is too weak on his own. He needs a spiritual philosophy to buttress his existential condition, otherwise, well, he'll succumb to his lowest passions and feelings of despondency.

The question ultimately is: spiritual atheism, ala Buddhism? Or a traditional theism??

I tend to go with the latter. Spiritual Atheism is still Atheism, IMO.