JASON report: "Characterization of Underground Facilities"

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The first link is the one of interest. It is a scientific paper written by the JASONs (DoD scientific advisory group) on how to detect underground facilities. It covers the usual schemes .(geophones, VLF ground sensing, gravity surveys, etc.), but also one I never heard of but is totally obvious once pointed out. Basically the ground will settle where it has been disturbed underground. The settling can be detected by synthetic aperture radar. This makes it way more likely that to escape detection, underground facilities are dug into mountains rather than just some blank spot on the map. [Sorry if that ruin the theory of nationwide train tunnels. ;-) ]

The paper also goes into a scheme to detect vents, but I really don't think it would work, at least not in the desert. The idea is to detect the thermal disturbance of the vented air. Far better just to thermal map the area and look for a temperature difference.

Regarding geophones, present day UAVs can drop them from the air. Air dropped sensors go back to the Vietnam war.

reply to post by gariac


Though I am no expert, under a body of water would seem to be the most logical place for underground facilities. We now have the technology as evidenced by the Chunnel, and it would be pretty hard to detect or to bomb cause I don't think a bunker buster is going to work very well in 100ft. of water.....just sayin!
brice

This spot on Edwards Air Force Base is what I would imagine the "disturbed" surface to look like if there was an underground structure. Coordinates N34.971023 W117.931645
sunken area

Now a water detention basin is always a possibility, but if still being used, there would be no growth in them. They scoop the silt out of those detention basins periodically. There is such a basin near the TTR at N37.887377 W116.757924. It isn't for effluent, at least not when I drove past it.

Of course, ground does sink all by itself, but probably not with such a well defined shape.

Originally posted by gariac
This spot on Edwards Air Force Base is what I would imagine the "disturbed" surface to look like if there was an underground structure. Coordinates N34.971023 W117.931645
sunken area

It could also be where they buried some toxic waste, maybe without permit.

reply to post by mbkennel


The key here is the surface plants in the pit looks the same as outside the pit. It takes forever to grow plants in the desert, so once you dig a hole, the surface always looks different. This area looks like it just collapsed. You can't really tell, but I suspect all the plants on the walls of the pit are angled downward. That is a classic way to tell if the ground is moving (sliding). New growth would grow upwards, even if the dirt is tilted.

It can be as simple as an old septic tank collapsing.

I know for a fact they have an elevator at edwards that takes planes underground. Ive never been down there but I've seen it in action. Kind of like the carriers taking jets below deck.

I saw the B2 getting lowered into the ground on a lift of some sort from a distance through binoculars at one of the air shows at Edwards back in the early 90s. It taxied to the very far end of the runway and appeared to be lowered into the ground.

reply to post by BASSPLYR


We've been through this already. Shadowfax works at EDW and says this elevator doesn't exist. EDW is crawling with civilians, given the nature of what goes on there, so it is a difficult place to keep secrets. [North Base on the other hand.....]

Edwards is a big place. If someone knows where this is located, go to Google Earth and report back with some coordinates.