Does anyone know what this symbol means, or where it is from?

reply to post by davethebear

OK, in the new understanding of things here on ATS...the ram (sheep) is the same as a goat. Someone must explain to me...why do all the signs of the zodiac have a unique animal except Capricorn/Aries? Also, what now is the meaning of the "The Judgment of the Nations"?

Goat and ram belong to two different species Capra aegagrus and Ovis aries.

Read more: www.differencebetween.com...

Please keep in mind that symbols bare different meanings in different times, and different cultures, regions.
At the very least (and I hate to mention this) but watch the first 5 minutes of the Da Vinci Code when Tom Hanks character lectures on symbols. I hope that will gvie you some idea of how symbols play a different part.

For examble the Square and Compass does not BELONG to Freemasonry, there are other groups out here that uses the same symbol.

The (R) oTo I believe is the company who made the pin, as it looks similar to the following image:



I have seen most of the other images posted in the thread during my research on the pin, but so far, have not found the exact image as depicted on it.

Originally posted by gopher mines
The (R) oTo I believe is the company who made the pin, as it looks similar to the following image:

I have seen most of the other images posted in the thread during my research on the pin, but so far, have not found the exact image as depicted on it.

When you state the (R), is the (R) actually on the back or does the (R) mean something I am not aware of. I ask this because I cannot see the (R) on the actual photo.........

And in the indent on the right hand side, is there a G in there?...........Just wanted to clarify.....cheers

In the picture I posted the (C) means copyright, the (R) means "Registered Trademark" I believe oTo is the brand of pin

Originally posted by gopher mines
In the picture I posted the (C) means copyright, the (R) means "Registered Trademark" I believe oTo is the brand of pin

Oh okay, thanks for that........me having a brain drain.........der....

Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by davethebear

 

 

OK, in the new understanding of things here on ATS...the ram (sheep) is the same as a goat. Someone must explain to me...why do all the signs of the zodiac have a unique animal except Capricorn/Aries? Also, what now is the meaning of the "The Judgment of the Nations"?

Goat and ram belong to two different species Capra aegagrus and Ovis aries.

Read more: www.differencebetween.com...

edit on 15-8-2012 by no1smootha because: (no reason given)

I just wrote ram/goat because going by the hat pin I am not really sure if you can tell what it actually is. I just presumed that it was one of these animals.....

As for Capricorn being a horned goat and Aries being a Ram, I thought them to be unique because they are two different animals.......

As for the The Judgment of the Nations, this is something I haven't heard of before, but just doing a Google search I believe that it has something to do with Christ's supposed return.......

I hope I understood what you were trying to say....I have learned something new again today......love it...

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by gopher mines


I doubt it has anything to do with cooking, as the ram's head on the bottom represents Baphomet.

Originally posted by gopher mines
Also, how does one have so few posts when you've been here 6 years!! lol

edit on 14-8-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)

I'm an observer...

Check out my stats!

ok..lets sum up what we know

definatly not older than 18th century...i would say 19th

then i would say its from northern europe...it could be greek or roman themed....but i will say paganism

its probably britsh, scottish or german....that would mean celtic then i think.



let me look again....1 sec

Honestly....you people are a bunch of Chicken lickens...the middle ages and Matthew Hopkins and his gang of nutters thrived on people like you..."oh look a goat...THE DEVIL!....good grief.

Its a hunters pin, a mountain goat with a wreath of fish... the idea behind the badge is You eat what you kill... the reason why you haven't succeeded recreating the set up...you haven't tried hard enough... I have... dive the two main posts a little deeper....oh look...a woman with a carrot on her nose....A WITCH!

Looks like witchcraft, cutting out particular glands from the goat, to put into the cauldron and make a special brew.

Originally posted by zeevar
Honestly....you people are a bunch of Chicken lickens...the middle ages and Matthew Hopkins and his gang of nutters thrived on people like you..."oh look a goat...THE DEVIL!....good grief.

Its a hunters pin, a mountain goat with a wreath of fish... the idea behind the badge is You eat what you kill... the reason why you haven't succeeded recreating the set up...you haven't tried hard enough... I have... dive the two main posts a little deeper....oh look...a woman with a carrot on her nose....A WITCH!

edit on 15-8-2012 by zeevar because: typo

Thank you...A little sense in this thread.

Looks like a possible connection to either witchcraft, devil worship, or a symbol of the cooking of the goat, or instead of cooking the goat it could signify blood in the pot to offer as sacrifice.

reply to post by Noble01


sense??? then what the frig is a "chicken licken" lololol

reply to post by thePharaoh


lol I know right!

never heard that but it is funny

Chicken Licken...aka chicken little....youve had a sheltered childhood

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by no1smootha

Hi Not Smooth

You wrote : QUOTE

"The story about how Jason and Medea killed Pelias is ALWAYS a RAM. Also the ancient Greeks didn't practice Wicca although they were certainly pagans."

UNQUOTE

Wicca derives from ancient Sanskrit root wordss e.g. WEIK / WIKKAN meaning 'to bend, to change' or 'to transform' -

I use the term WICCA generically for any type of pre-Christian 'magickal practice' (esp magickal fertility rituals) which were in practice prior to the introduction of all the various Judeo-Christianities into Europe (from about 30,000 BCE to about 900 CE) - but I do not use the term in the sense that Gardner etal. would use the term or indeed any others of the 19th-20th century NeoPagan movements.

Just another clarification - goats and rams were BOTH used as fertility symbols in many many rituals in hundreds of ancient cults - even the Canaanites had their Azazel preJudaean Goat Sacrfice at their own version of Yom Kippur (later the 'jewish' Day of Atonement) under the heading of 'the scape-goat' at the time of the annual harvest when the fields would be cleared - i.e. around the 'Jewish' (and pre-jewish Canaanite) New Year or 'rosh-hashannah' - both festvals (Yom Kippur & Rosh HaShannah) occured in the same month (Tishri) and had fertility overtones & symbology.

The RAM of course is associated with male-sexuality and fertility in the Spring; the GOAT is associated with re-birth of the sun god (i.e. Capricorn c. Dec 21st and following)

The Letters O.T.O on the back of this casting suggests the Latin words : Ordo Templi Orientis (Order of the Eastern Temple, or more loosely, the 'Order of the Eastern Templars'), which was associated with the ritual magick of Aleistair Crowley esp between c. 1910 & 1930 - which secret organisation uses variations of goat-fertility symbolism in many of its emblems (cf: Baphomet or "SOPHIA" in reverse Hebrew Letters via the socalled ATBASH Gemmatria Cipher where 'ALEPH the 1st letter of the Hebrew 'Aleph-Bet becomes TAV (i.e. the last letter) and the second letter BETH becomes SHIN (the penultimate letter) etc. etc. etc. so that the Greek word (sophia = 'wisdom') can be written in Hebrew consonants as 'SVFYA" ('wisdom') then transforms into BFVMT- (i.e. Baphomet = the Atbash Gemmatrial Cipher form) - and we all know what animal Baphomet is depicted as - and 'it aint no Ram !'....

Certainly the animal image at the bottom of the pin does seem to be a Goat rather than a Ram by virtue of the goat-horns (they are clearly not curved ram's horns) , but it might have deliberately been left ambiguous by the artist and/or the OTO.

Clear as mud?

Originally posted by Sigismundus

Hi Not Smooth

You wrote : QUOTE

"The story about how Jason and Medea killed Pelias is ALWAYS a RAM. Also the ancient Greeks didn't practice Wicca although they were certainly pagans."

UNQUOTE

I realize I was a little snarky, but someone's gotta take the high road...I figured that you would, I thought wrong

Originally posted by SigismundusWicca derives from ancient Sanskrit root wordss e.g. WEIK / WIKKAN meaning 'to bend, to change' or 'to transform' -

The word witch derives from the Old English nouns wicca /ˈwɪttʃɑ/ (masc.) "sorcerer, witch (male)" and wicce /ˈwɪttʃe/ (fem.) "sorceress, witch (female)". The word's further origins in Proto-Germanic and Proto-Indo-European are unclear.

WIKI

probably from Old English wicca wizard — more at witch First Known Use: 1959

Mirriam Webster

Originally posted by SigismundusI use the term WICCA generically for any type of pre-Christian 'magickal practice' (esp magickal fertility rituals) which were in practice prior to the introduction of all the various Judeo-Christianities into Europe (from about 30,000 BCE to about 900 CE) - but I do not use the term in the sense that Gardner etal. would use the term or indeed any others of the 19th-20th century NeoPagan movements.

Yes, I understood how you were using the term, but I dispute it's use as improper. The ancient Greeks and Romans were a literate civilization, we know what their religious practices were. It is an insult to their cultures to use a northern European word to describe their various religious practices "generically". It would be better to refer to them as pre-Christian pagan cultures. Hinduism is also an Indo-European tradition but having been to Puja at Ashrams and Temples, I wouldn't call their religious practices "Wicca".

Originally posted by SigismundusJust another clarification - goats and rams were BOTH used as fertility symbols in many many rituals in hundreds of ancient cults - even the Canaanites had their Azazel preJudaean Goat Sacrfice at their own version of Yom Kippur (later the 'jewish' Day of Atonement) under the heading of 'the scape-goat' at the time of the annual harvest when the fields would be cleared - i.e. around the 'Jewish' (and pre-jewish Canaanite) New Year or 'rosh-hashannah' - both festvals (Yom Kippur & Rosh HaShannah) occured in the same month (Tishri) and had fertility overtones & symbology.

Undoubtedly, many types of animals were sacrificed and ritually consumed by adherents of various fertility religions but how does that alter my statement that the specific story about how Jason and Medea killed Pelias is ALWAYS a RAM?

Originally posted by SigismundusThe RAM of course is associated with male-sexuality and fertility in the Spring; the GOAT is associated with re-birth of the sun god (i.e. Capricorn c. Dec 21st and following)

Well, I am glad that is cleared up! I wasn't sure when to send my Mother in Law her birthday card.

Originally posted by SigismundusThe Letters O.T.O on the back of this casting suggests the Latin words : Ordo Templi Orientis (Order of the Eastern Temple, or more loosely, the 'Order of the Eastern Templars'), which was associated with the ritual magick of Aleistair Crowley esp between c. 1910 & 1930 - which secret organisation uses variations of goat-fertility symbolism in many of its emblems (cf: Baphomet or "SOPHIA" in reverse Hebrew Letters via the socalled ATBASH Gemmatria Cipher where 'ALEPH the 1st letter of the Hebrew 'Aleph-Bet becomes TAV (i.e. the last letter) and the second letter BETH becomes SHIN (the penultimate letter) etc. etc. etc. so that the Greek word (sophia = 'wisdom') can be written in Hebrew consonants as 'SVFYA" ('wisdom') then transforms into BFVMT- (i.e. Baphomet = the Atbash Gemmatrial Cipher form) - and we all know what animal Baphomet is depicted as - and 'it aint no Ram !'....

Certainly the animal image at the bottom of the pin does seem to be a Goat rather than a Ram by virtue of the goat-horns (they are clearly not curved ram's horns) , but it might have deliberately been left ambiguous by the artist and/or the OTO.

You are assuming that oTo stands for the Ordo Templi Orientis, I don't. I'd expect the usual lamen of the O.T.O. or at least the unicursal hexagram if it were.

Hail Eris!

Originally posted by no1smootha
You are assuming that oTo stands for the Ordo Templi Orientis, I don't. I'd expect the usual lamen of the O.T.O. or at least the unicursal hexagram if it were.

As I said earlier, 'oTo' is a jewellery abbreviation. If you google 'oTo 10K' you will see several people asking questions about what this means and it appears on jewellery that does not even have the remotest semblance to anything Wiccan, esoteric, etc.