"Jesus is God" = Mary is "the mother of God"

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by truejew

 

Question for ya...

Why are you not involved in this discussion?

Jesus is Yahweh

It seems to be an older thread. Also, I have discussed this topic with Lonewolf, the starter of that thread, just recently.

Originally posted by queenofangels_17

Originally posted by ChristianJihad

If I say something that is right, then God has inspired me. If I say something that is wrong, then it is my own mistake.)

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

This would preclude your god from being the creator of all that is,was and will ever be.

Not so. God comprehends everything in His Knowledge. Everything that have happened and will happen is known to Him.

.

You seem to have repeated what I asserted ie if this god IS the creator of All that there IS, WAS, and WILL EVER be., then the poster cannot attribute some inspiration to the god but somehow attribute some inspiration to something else.

We also have to bear in mind that the the Bibles are the source of attributes and characteristics of this god and clearly state that Yahwhe/ jesus is the source (creator) of both good and evil.

It's a logical fallacy to make the claim that Yaweh/jesus is the creator of everything but then try and make an exception to the rule to rationalize the existance of something which may seem a little unsavoury,

I don't really expect a response (at least a sensible one) to this, as this type of discussion is normally beyond the intellectual reach of most christians as it requires then to think critically and logically which normally scres them off.

You simply cannot have it both ways my friend either your yahwhe/jesus is the creator of all or it is not.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Akragon

 

Let's give quantum physics a few hundred more years to settle that question, eh?

I'd rather not wait for another incarnation to get it right honestly....

Or perhaps you plan to live that long?

Originally posted by NotReallyASecret

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
My whole point is... Jesus cant be called "God", without Mary being called the "mother of god".
Those who say "Jesus is God" indirectly say "Mary is the mother of god".

Christians directly say that Mary is the mother of God.

How do you not know this?

edit on 14-8-2012 by NotReallyASecret because: (no reason given)

Are you referring to the Hail Mary?

Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with you.
Blessed are you among women,
and blessed is the fruit of your womb,
Jesus.

Holy Mary,Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

---
This prayer was taken from Luke 1:28-35

28 And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”[a]

29 But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. 30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”

34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

Corruptions in the Bible has given rise to the concept of Jesus being Son of God, and in some places, as God Himself. According to this verse in Luke Jesus will be called son of God, not God, both of which were corruptions when compared to the guardian of Scriptures, the Holy Qur'an which states the true account of Mary's conception of Jesus, as follows:


19:16 And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East,

19:17 And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our spirit and it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man.

19:18 She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art God fearing
.
19:19 He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.

19:20 She said: How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither have I been unchaste!

19:21 He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained.

19:22 And she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place.


3:42 And when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah hath chosen thee and made thee pure, and hath preferred thee above (all) the women of creation.

3:43 O Mary! Be obedient to thy Lord, prostrate thyself and bow with those who bow (in worship).

3:45 And remember when the angels said: O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near unto Allah

***

2:116 And they say: Allah hath taken unto Himself a Son. Be He glorified! Nay, but whatsoever is in the heaven and the earth is His. All are subservient unto Him..

17:111 And say: Praise be to Allah, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son, and Who hath no partner in the Sovereignty, nor hath He any protecting friend through dependence. And magnify Him with all magnificence.

19:88 And they say: The Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a son.

19:89 Assuredly ye utter a disastrous thing,

19:90 Whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall in ruins,

19:91 That ye ascribe unto the Beneficent a son,

19:92 When it is not meet for (the Majesty of) the Beneficent that He should choose a son.

19:93 There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave.

19:94 Verily He knoweth them and numbereth them with (right) numbering.

19:95 And each one of them will come unto Him on the Day of Resurrection, alone.

21:26 And they say: The Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a son. Be He glorified! Nay, but (those whom they call sons) are honored slaves;

Therefore, Jesus is neither God nor son of God, but he is a slave of God, a Messiah sent to the Children of Israel, a pattern and a role model to anyone who desires Salvation.

5:72 They surely disbelieve who say : Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said : O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden Paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evildoers there will be no helpers.

She is not the literal ''mother of god' but she is the one who gave birth to him in this world.

Jesus never existed anyway and even if he did,he clearly admitted to being Satan in the Bible.Mary is more the ''mother of the Devil'' than the ''mother of god''.

reply to post by Viking9019


You have quotes to support this statement, sir?

reply to post by queenofangels_17


This is true, but he said of himself... he was a servant of God...

And he also said he was "the son of God"...

are these corruptions as well?

reply to post by Akragon


Clearly the result of melded/blended faiths. There's bound to be some crossed wires somewhere in there...and I guess you found one of them.

reply to post by queenofangels_17

19:22 And she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place.

Explain this line, if you would. From what I understood, the only person with her is an angel, and she conceived this angel? Or she conceived Jesus? And she withdrew with him inside of her, is that what I'm reading here?

Please clarify this for me, not all of us are as knowledgeable as you are in areas of obscure, outdated text.

reply to post by ChristianJihad


So you don't believe in Divine inspiration?

You simply cannot have it both ways my friend either your yahwhe/jesus is the creator of all or it is not.

That's so true. But first let's make something clear.

Jesus is not Yahweh.

Yahweh is the Creator of ALL.

Jesus did not create anything.

If you persist in saying Jesus and Yahweh is one, then tell me what did Jesus craete that made him equal to God in your mind?

13:16Say (O Muhammad): Who is Lord of the heaven and the earth? Say: Allah! Say: Take ye then (others) beside Him for protectors, which, even for themselves, have neither benefit nor hurt? Say: Is the blind man equal to the seer, or is darkness equal to light? Or assign they unto Allah partners Who created the like of His creation so that the creation (which they made and His creation) seemed alike to them? Say: Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is the One, the Almighty.

reply to post by queenofangels_17


Jesus created more bread and fish. When there is only a little to begin with, and then there's a lot, that means he created something. He took bread and fish and created more of this, he made a lot where there had been only a little.

Also...

He created sight, for a blind man.

He created health, for a paralyzed man.

He created life, for a dead man.

He created many things, if you take his story to be true. Come on now, you should know this!

reply to post by AfterInfinity


John 14:10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works

.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by queenofangels_17

 

This is true, but he said of himself... he was a servant of God...

And he also said he was "the son of God"...

are these corruptions as well?

The "the" is an interpolation from Greek text when translated to English. If you own a Bible then it'll probably be italicized, which signifies this interpolation (not emphasis). So "[a] son of God" tends to make more sense. It's just like the mystic who realizes he and everyone else is divine. When Hindus/Buddhists realize this, no one is surprised, but in the Christian-Judaic world, anyone who realizes this gets stoned (John 10:31-34). Christian mysticism is so rare for a reason: people who don't fear death and realize the truth behind the masks of reality don't make good servants to an empire.

First I don't believe in the Christian God. Just to be clear.

But I don't see the issue here.

If God exists on a level transcendent from the physical plane, and Jesus is both God and a human, and Mary is just a human, then to me Mary would be the mother of Jesus the human and is not connected to the transcendent aspect. I don't agree Mary has to be the mother of both the 'fully god and fully human' Jesus. I think that misunderstands the idea of a transcendent entity.

Mary died in India i believe after going there with other christians.....
her tomb is in the city named after her i believe...its been a while...so googgle is yer friend....
One apostle made it all the way to japan for petes sake.....
mary is just a woman like you are a person yourself....
the story of jesus is rife with anomalies.....
catholics worship mary like god...they say she can interceed with God for you, but dont count on it, the bible says not possible.....

Sigh. Not going to waste my time circle jerking. :shk:, NuT, Adjensen you guys can deal with this. Good luck with the :bnghd:.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Sigh. Not going to waste my time circle jerking. :shk:, NuT, Adjensen you guys can deal with this. Good luck with the :bnghd:.

I think I'm done here too...

reply to post by DISRAELI

Next time you try to draw out the logical consequences of the doctrine of the Incarnation, consider the possibility that the theologians of the early church might have been down that road already.

The theologians of the early church were no prophets or apostles. They weren't very different from the theologians we see on internet forums. If I could go back in time, I would like to ask them the same questions that I did in the OP.

Its interesting how Christians have woven an elaborate theology to interpret Jesus as God. Yet, they remain silent when it comes to the issue of Mary. On one hand they insist that Jesus is God... on the other hand they stop short of acknowledging Mary as the mother of God. Instead they start looking for new ways to explain it away.

"You see, Mary was the mother of Jesus, who is God... but actually she isn't the mother of God."

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Sigh. Not going to waste my time circle jerking. :shk:, NuT, Adjensen you guys can deal with this. Good luck with the :bnghd:.

That picture accurately sums up my reaction when Christians say Jesus is God, but stop short of acknowledging Mary is the mother of God.

In this thread I am not even challenging your position that Jesus is God. This isn't even about theology, but basic common sense. Mary gave birth to Jesus...and if Jesus is God...it makes Mary the mother of God.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

What do YOU believe about Jesus?
Do you think he is God?

Jesus was a man, of flesh and blood, like you and me.

Christ is the son of God, so Christ is also a God.

Christ is the spirit that took possession of Jesus the man, and the Father + Christ + Jesus became one.

So, Jesus Christ is the begotten son of God the Father, because Christ is begotten of the Spirit.

But, Jesus is begotten of Mary, a woman of flesh and blood. So, Mary is the mother of the man God blessed with his Holy Spirt by joining him to his son Christ.

So Christ came into the flesh, and walked among men.

But, men could not see Christ, because he is spirit, they only saw Jesus the man.

Jesus spoke with the voice of Christ while teaching, but spoke with his own voice on occasions.

The classic case is Jesus on the cross, when he cried out,

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? KJV Matthew 27:46

At the point Christ left the body of Jesus, the man Jesus was alone on the cross, suffering pain, and cried out, wondering why Christ had deserted him in that painful hour.

Christ was the miracle worker, and had the power to make Jesus feel no pain, but instead he deserted Jesus at the last minute.

This was to show everyone that Jesus was just a man of flesh and blood, and all the miracles done in his life were done by his Father, not the man Jesus himself.

After that little skit, Christ reunited with Jesus again, and rose him up from the dead. The rest is history.