"Jesus is God" = Mary is "the mother of God"

reply to post by AnonymousCitizen


Trinity is a term not used in the Bible. I don't know what that refers to except that the Holy Spirit is considered a part of that equation. I again personally think that the Holy Spirit is from the Father in a way I don't understand. I know that the Spirit could not come to earth until after Jesus had ascended unto the Father. So there must be two different personalities Jesus and the Spirit of the Father.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


An excerpt from the Holy Song that the Angel Gabriel taught Abraham to sing before he was shown the fate of his descendants..

“O, Eternal, Mighty, Holy El, God Autocrat, 17:9 Self-Begotten, Incorruptible, Immaculate, Unbegotten,Spotless, Immortal, 17:10 Self-Created, Self-Illuminated, Without Mother,Without Father, Without Genealogy, 17:11 High, Fiery, 17:12 Wise, Lover Of Men, Favorable, Generous, Bountiful, Jealous Over Me, Patient, Most Merciful, 17:13 Eli [that is, my God,] Eternal, Mighty, Holy Sabaoth, Most Glorious El, El, El, El, Yahoel. 17:14 You are he whom my soul has loved...


God is described in this Most Holy song as, Self-begotten, Unbegotten, Self-Created, Without Mother, Without Father, Without genealogy... all of which description does not fit Jesus, except the one Without Father.

Jesus is not God. God has no Mother, so Mary is not the mother of God. Jesus is not thought to be more than a man who was sent by God, a Prophet until the apostasy.

The truth is stated clearly in this verse of the Holy Qur'an:

5:75 The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how we make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!

Originally posted by NotReallyASecret
Dr. Richard Carrier, a PhD in Ancient History from Columbia, says that Jesus was never a physical human being.

He was never born to Mary.

Would you take the word of a man against the word of God?

4:159 There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him (Jesus) before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.

Ask the people of the Scripture, the Christians and Jews if they don't believe that Jesus existed. They all believe in Jesus, but on the Day of Ressurection, Jesus will be a witness againts them.

Originally posted by dakota1s2
she cannot be the "mother of God"

Originally posted by dakota1s2
Remember Jesus said that "I and the Father are ONE!

Contradict yourself much?

Originally posted by dakota1s2
reply to post by AnonymousCitizen

 

Trinity is a term not used in the Bible. I don't know what that refers to except that the Holy Spirit is considered a part of that equation. I again personally think that the Holy Spirit is from the Father in a way I don't understand. I know that the Spirit could not come to earth until after Jesus had ascended unto the Father. So there must be two different personalities Jesus and the Spirit of the Father.

You are right, Trinity is not a word that could be found in the Bible. The Trinity consisting of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, was not taught by Jesus nor his disciples but a later on fabrication by Paul in his efforts to integrate the pagans who are used to worshipping multiple gods in the fold of Christianity.

However, Trinity or the concept of Trinity was mentioned in the Holy Qur'an:

4:171 O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "three". Cease! (it is) better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that he should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.

5:73 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the one God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.

Originally posted by dakota1s2
reply to post by NotReallyASecret

 

No...Most Christians I know don't say "Mary is the mother of God"
Mary is the mother of Jesus who is the "Son of God" who in spirit and mindset and somehow connected before time was with God.

She was born so she cannot be the "mother of God" who had no beginning and no end.

You have it almost right, but we must also remember that Jesus came in His Father's name. EhJeh is salvation aka. Jesus.

Jesus is the Father in flesh. Mary was the mother of the Son of God, but the Spirit of the Son of God is the Father. The Father existed before the birth of the Son.Therefore Mary is not the Mother of the Father/God

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Jesus also never made any theology over himself being God.

That shows a misunderstanding of the original text, Look into Jesus's I AM statements, every time he made them the Pharisees would get pissed at him.

The I AM statements as in what the Burning bush told Moses it was, "I Am".

He was declaring that HE Jesus, was the I Am of the old testament.

Jesus left very little room for what he was, he either was what he said he was, or he was a complete fraud, there is no middle ground.

Purely based of the existing text that reference him which comes down to just the 4 gospels really.

Your Scriptures make Jesus a fraud..

When he said, I AM relating to him pre-existing Abraham, it's not in the same context of God saying to Moses, I AM. It's just like saying I am before Abraham.

***
If Jesus is God and he is IAM; Why did not God just go ahead and say, My name is Jesus, not Yahweh. Why give Jesus an ordinary name, that's been used much by the sons of Israel?

If Jesus is God, this statement would have been repeated all over the Scriptures so that people will not forget.. but this idea of yours that Jesus is God is taken from vague verses, not concise and mostly derived through conjecture.

I and My Father are One.
The Word is God.

I dare you to give me a verse in your Scripture of Jesus saying distinctly, so that there is no room for doubt, just one verse saying, " I, JESUS AM YOUR GOD, SO WORSHIP ME!", but if you cannot and you will never do it, then guard yourself against the Fire, whose fuel is of men and stones, for those who invent a lie against God.

21:29 And one of them who should say: Lo! I am a God beside Him, that one We should repay with hell. Thus We repay wrong-doers.

21:24Or have they chosen other Gods beside Him? Say: Bring your proof (of their Godhead). This is the Reminder of those with me and those before me, but most of them know not the Truth and so they are averse.

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

When he said, I AM relating to him pre-existing Abraham, it's not in the same context of God saying to Moses, I AM. It's just like saying I am before Abraham.

Jesus did claim to be EhJeh (translated as I Am) in flesh. He is Jeh-sus. Eh-Jeh is Salvation.

Originally posted by queenofangels_17

If Jesus is God and he is IAM; Why did not God just go ahead and say, My name is Jesus, not Yahweh. Why give Jesus an ordinary name, that's been used much by the sons of Israel?

Yahweh is a false name for God. It is based on the name of the Eygptian moon god Yah/Jah/Iah/Lah. Yah is the same god as allah.

reply to post by queenofangels_17

If Jesus is God, this statement would have been repeated all over the Scriptures

Exactly!!

Calling Jesus God makes him a liar by omission... so he decided to leave out the most important piece of information.

The trinity makes Father, Jesus, and the spirit equal.... and thats exactly opposite to what Jesus said...

He always said there is one Greater then himself...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by queenofangels_17

 

If Jesus is God, this statement would have been repeated all over the Scriptures

Exactly!!

Calling Jesus God makes him a liar by omission... so he decided to leave out the most important piece of information.

The trinity makes Father, Jesus, and the spirit equal.... and thats exactly opposite to what Jesus said...

He always said there is one Greater then himself...

You are correct that there is no trinity, but wrong about Jesus not being God in flesh.

You have to remember that when God was manifest in flesh as the Son of God, He humbled Himself to be a man.

reply to post by truejew


I disagree...

Jesus was not God in the flesh... John said he was God in the flesh... Jesus said no such thing.

Ask yourself...

Who did Jesus pray to?

Would God in the flesh be afraid?

Would he yell out "Father why have you forsaken me"

When Jesus was baptized... Who was it that said "this is my son"?

Read his words my friend.... don't rely on what others said about him... even within the bible

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
(If I say something that is right, then God has inspired me. If I say something that is wrong, then it is my own mistake.)

God has inspired you either way.

reply to post by Akragon


When you truly understand His dual nature, you will understand that He humbled Himself as a man.

"6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." (Philippians 2:6-8 KJV)

reply to post by truejew


haha...

so you quote Paul to prove your point...

Epic fail bro...

That was pauls lie... He did not ever consider himself equal with God.



Edit: Lets not forget Paul did not know Jesus...

Thats where the whole trinity thing comes to place, technically, she is 'mother of God' since she gave birth to who was and always was. Catholics pray to Mary and ask Christians in heaven to pray for them, and Christians pray to Jesus and ask Mary in heaven to pray for them ... If you really want to get technical about it.... Not that it matters, its all preference and every individual knows who they are praying to deep deep down somewhere in our soul filled gutters...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by truejew

 

haha...

so you quote Paul to prove your point...

Epic fail bro...

That was pauls lie... He did not ever consider himself equal with God.

Edit: Lets not forget Paul did not know Jesus...

edit on 14-8-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

He did. He claimed to be EhJeh in flesh. Paul did not lie.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
1. Going by basic logic, if Jesus is God, then Mary being the one who gave birth to Jesus automatically becomes the "mother of God"...regardless of whether or not Christians acknowledge it.

Congratulations on re-inventing the wheel
The title of THEOTOKOS, or "mother of God", was officially accepted for Mary by decree of the Ecumenical Council of Ephesus in 431, using much the same logic as your own.

Next time you try to draw out the logical consequences of the doctrine of the Incarnation, consider the possibility that the theologians of the early church might have been down that road already.

reply to post by truejew


Nope... never happened

present the verse where he said I AM GOD

Which will also make Jesus a liar.... Good luck

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Mary is not only Mother of God but Wife of God, Daughter of God. Creatrix, Co-Redemptrix, Queen of Heaven, Queen of Angels, The Great Goddess of Many Names, Giver of Form, WOMB AND TOMB.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by truejew

 

Nope... never happened

Yes... Did happen and it almost got Him stoned.

"57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by." (John 8:57-59 KJV)

Originally posted by Akragon

Which will also make Jesus a liar.... Good luck

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

A person who fully understands that Jesus was both man and God and that He humbled Himself as a man, will understand those Scriptures without problems.