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While everybody is looking at the ME, they are only glancing at Europe. A real possible path to WW3

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posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 09:52 AM
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It has been said that Europe is a tinderbox lately, and people seem to mention it only in passing, only to concentrate upon the latest atrocity in the news. The EU is under a slow burn at the moment, but eventually…that fire will flare up. It will result first in the form of martial law and work its way to all out war.

Things seem to me to be picking up speed.

Once martial law is enforced, the EU will effectively cease to exist. The EU currency will collapse and all hell will break lose. Whatever EU missions out in the world will be called home to help with the troubles, leaving those who they were helping hanging out to dry. This will result in more conflict as there are those who will take advantage of the void.

Next, NATO will fall apart, as treaty members with somewhat shaky, yet solvent finances do not want to get pulled down with the rest. Oh, the Pols will spin a good spin, but it will be futile.

And as NATO fails, there are those in the wings who are just salivating at the thought. And will take advantage of that as well. Though it will probably be at their own peril.

I understand that this is just a summary of how things could play out. I know it’s more complicated, but I see it happening, in the near future.

The only thing to prevent this scenario is if cooler heads prevail.

Can somebody in Europe prove me wrong? Trust me, I hope I am.

edit on 14-8-2012 by TDawgRex because: Subject line correction




posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


IMHO , things are not the way it used to be in 1945.

People will not support another Hitler anywhere.

No one can keep people misinformed.

How do you think that it will lead to ww3 ?
edit on 14-8-2012 by mideast because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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Europe will never be able to use martial law, the people will bring the country down before they have chance, and even if they did try to impliment it, it wont work, the whole country will revolt and the army will refuse to shoot/inprison the whole country.

If they were to use martial law, they would of used it in Greece by now.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 



It has been said that Europe is a tinderbox lately, and people seem to mention it only in passing, only to concentrate upon the latest atrocity in the news. The EU is under a slow burn at the moment, but eventually…that fire will flare up. It will result first in the form of martial law and work its way to all out war.


It would help to know what kind of issues you are referring to.

Despite the EU being in a bit of a weak spot at the moment, that is still a long distance from breakup or anything major.

Martial law is set for internal purposes, like controlling a part of the population that is revolting and causing harm to others, or riots, or something like that.

If there is civil unrest, I can't see how a country would make the decision to go to war. Civil war is a remote possibility, but look at what happened with Spain in WW2. They were too busy fighting them-selfs that they were pretty much invisible during the major conflict.


Once martial law is enforced, the EU will effectively cease to exist.


Martial law is a national measure, and the EU isn't a country. It's an economic and political coalition. Very far away from concepts like the United States.

The EU has no power to enforce martial law.


The EU currency will collapse and all hell will break lose.


We don't know that. We can only assume that things will get worst before they get better, but changing currency isn't the end of the world. Our civilizations have done it several times before, and we are all still here today.

And even if EU breaks apart, that will only get Europe back to a pre-EU situation, where actually, a lot of countries where doing better on their own than what they are doing now.


Whatever EU missions out in the world will be called home to help with the troubles, leaving those who they were helping hanging out to dry.


I'm not sure which missions you are talking about. Most missions that have european troops are being sent there under NATO action plans, it has nothing to do with the EU as an institution or organization.

The EU does have a military branch, but it's considered to be more political and defense-focused, than actually giving orders to deploy troops.


This will result in more conflict as there are those who will take advantage of the void.


Which voids? Most peace-keeping missions around the world are accomplished by U.N. resolutions, and at best, they use NATO forces. The EU pulling out or going down will barely have an effect on that.

It will be more due to internal issues (like debt) than anything else.


Next, NATO will fall apart, as treaty members with somewhat shaky, yet solvent finances do not want to get pulled down with the rest. Oh, the Pols will spin a good spin, but it will be futile.


I have serious doubts about that. A lot of NATO members actually depend on NATO for self-defense. The U.S. military power was like a safety curtain that was spread over a part of Europe after WW2. While some nations like the UK and France have regained they self-control and stepped up their defenses and military strength to normal standards, other nations continued on a low because they depend on NATO, instead of fortifying their own defense.

For that reason alone, I don't see anyone leaving NATO, especially considering that the U.S. is part of it, and leaving NATO is leaving 80% of U.S. support in terms of defense.

What are Pols?


And as NATO fails, there are those in the wings who are just salivating at the thought. And will take advantage of that as well. Though it will probably be at their own peril.


Who? Where? Although there are some situations where if NATO would pull out, conflict would follow, you seem to connect that with Europe's problems, and I don't see it that way. One thing is independent of the other.


I understand that this is just a summary of how things could play out. I know it’s more complicated, but I see it happening, in the near future.

The only thing to prevent this scenario is if cooler heads prevail.


It would be a lot more easier to debate if you could name examples. Europe is a very large continent, with a lot of different countries and populations. We can't paint them all under the same brush.

And personally, I don't see any of those thing's happening the way you put it. I have a very hard time believing something like martial law happening.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:14 AM
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It seems as likely as a scenario as any others I have heard.

I guess I always thought the Middle East would explode and drag everyone else in.
I still think that may be the case, but a European crisis, as you describe it, could very well be the catalyst.

Interesting thoughts.
Thanks!



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by GarrusVasNormandy
 


The EU is a coalition of Governments who agreed to adopt a common currency. This is known.

But the EU is also currently facing austerity measures which much of the populace does not want.

They've been talking about kicking the PIIGS to the curb unless they get their spending under control. To the best of my knowledge, only Ireland has been able to do so.

Once a coalition starts eliminating members, it is a house of cards.

And yes, the EU is linked to NATO. I believe that we have come to a point that if the EU disolves, then so does NATO. Maybe to be replaced with new treaties.

Bosnia is now a EU mission, not NATO. If the EU fails, then so does that mission. Just like the Afghanistan mission is actualy more NATO, rather than ISAF. If NATO were to fall apart, the US could not shoulder it alone.

As a history buff, I look at the current situation in Europe and see the 1930's all over again.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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I think the coming collapse of the euro will have a far greater impact that many believe.

The fragile state of the US economy will suffer greatly with the impending collapse.

The ME will be the least of our worries when we're too busy looking for food for the day.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by mideast
reply to post by TDawgRex
 


IMHO , things are not the way it used to be in 1945.

People will not support another Hitler anywhere.

No one can keep people misinformed.

How do you think that it will lead to ww3 ?
edit on 14-8-2012 by mideast because: (no reason given)


You can't keep people misinformed nowadays, but however you can direct their attention. And people will think what they want, won't they? Regardless of the information out there.

I see mass riots (and I hope I'm wrong) in the near future because the people refuse austerity measures that are needed. Their tax bases cannot sustain them currently and they are rightly irritated that the system they paid into is not working.

I don’t see another Hitler looming in our future, but rather a more charismatic figure who can make others think along his/her lines of thought.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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I'm from the Netherlands and there are some political parties who are adressing a basic income right for every human being to be able to live and eat. Everyone will be entitled for this since it's a human right to live.
Since the year 2000 there is a foundation that is doing research on how this can be implemented. If all the countries in the world will use this idea, this would mean a first step in preventing extreme poverty.

Check the following site for more information regarding this "Global Basic Income"
www.globalincome.org...

I don't think that the economy of only EU will collapse. If there will be a collapse, it will be an global economic collapse. Since all countries are connected to eachother one way or an other.

About Martial Law, the EU gov. can't do this. Martial Law is a US law. We don't have that here.

Want to S&F but i can't flag due to low posts. But i sure give u a star!



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by Slave NO MORE
I'm from the Netherlands and there are some political parties who are adressing a basic income right for every human being to be able to live and eat. Everyone will be entitled for this since it's a human right to live.


There should be more to life than just living and eating. That's what prisoners do.

The upcoming collapse will create a huge divide though. I can imagine pitchforks and torches storming the latter day Basteille.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:40 AM
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your thread made me think of a quote William Hague gave before the Olympics about how the soldiers doing security would get us used to seeing soldiers on the streets.add that to how much the media has bummed them up for doing security work that a simpleton could do for minimum wage then it could get scary.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by Slave NO MORE
I'm from the Netherlands and there are some political parties who are adressing a basic income right for every human being to be able to live and eat. Everyone will be entitled for this since it's a human right to live.
Since the year 2000 there is a foundation that is doing research on how this can be implemented. If all the countries in the world will use this idea, this would mean a first step in preventing extreme poverty.

Check the following site for more information regarding this "Global Basic Income"
www.globalincome.org...

I don't think that the economy of only EU will collapse. If there will be a collapse, it will be an global economic collapse. Since all countries are connected to eachother one way or an other.

About Martial Law, the EU gov. can't do this. Martial Law is a US law. We don't have that here.

Want to S&F but i can't flag due to low posts. But i sure give u a star!



Thanks for the info. I understand that the EU is not a nation, but individual nations can impose martial law, can't they? And they don't need the EU's permission.

Also, maybe it is just me, but if you can't find a solution to a economic problem in ten years +. Maybe they should scrap the original idea and start again. Smacks to me of politics.

Then again, if a solution cannot be found in ten years...maybe there is no solution, as sad as that sounds.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
Once martial law is enforced, the...

Slow down. Can you come up with a realistic scenario whereby any Western European nation in the EU would enforce martial law? Go on. Give us a clue.


Originally posted by TDawgRex
Can somebody in Europe prove me wrong?


Your scenario of impending mayhem and disaster is too simple and fantasy. Even the poorest EU nation suffering the most stringent austerity measures is far from social collapse, regardless of the amateur YouTube comment and teenage hyperbole. Take Greece where the country is going through a lot of strife, but they remain far from the imposition of martial law and far from social collapse.

My advice is to travel to Europe and see for yourself.

Regards



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by GarrusVasNormandy
reply to post by TDawgRex
 


Which voids? Most peace-keeping missions around the world are accomplished by U.N. resolutions, and at best, they use NATO forces. The EU pulling out or going down will barely have an effect on that.

It will be more due to internal issues (like debt) than anything else.



"Money drives the mission," a wise man once told me. "Without money, the mission does not get accomplished."

I've seen it on a micro-level. But I think that if Gov'ts (especially first tier types) pull back, then choas will eventually ensue.

Deutschland owes no debt to France, Italy etc, when they are thinking about their own people. I think that once one is either kicked out of the EU or pulls out on their own, that house will collapse.

A long time ago I said to my friends that the Euro would fail. It seems it is.

The good idea fairy strikes again. In theory, it sounded good, but in practice...not so much.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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No martial law here.

You have to realize that Europe is not the US, things work completely different here, at least they do in many places, perhaps the capitals are more similar.

However, where I live (Belgium), the scenario you describe can almost be labeled impossible. There is no army here to enforce any kind of martial law, it would have to be an invading country to pull something like that off, which is something even less plausible in this day and age. Also, in a tiny country like mine, soldiers wouldn't simply turn on their fellow man because those are the orders, perhaps in the US something like that could be possible, but I don't see it happening here.

I do foresee a collapse though, it has been long overdue in my opinion, ready to occur when the ones behind it are fully ready to pull out and let it fall.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by paraphi
 


Greece? Italy? France? Do you read the news?

The world is driven by economies, not happy feelings. People are Peeved and are letting their feelings be known.

I think that this is just the beginning.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


I agree that there should be more then that. But i see it as a basic right for everyone on this planet.

Did u know that there are 5,6 million children dying a year due to hunger? If you think about it, one of these children could be a inventor that brings global peace. Or take us a possibility to time/spacetravel or what ever magificent that still has to come. Because most of them are from the 3d world that doesn't mean that they are dumb. They just don't get a chance to be part in our evolution. Most dog and cat pets have better life then these children. It's insane the way the world is we live in. It's really the time to unite as a specie after all these years of struggle, diversion and wars on this planet. Only by uniting we can evolve.

When 2 persons do the same work they should have the same income. Take for example a webdesigner in Europe and a webdesigner in China. Both do the same but yet the European get's more purchasing power then the Chinese person. that's unfair.

[Edit]
Something off topic but can someone tell me up from how many posts i'm able to flag a thread?
[/Edit]
edit on 14-8-2012 by Slave NO MORE because: Offtopic question



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
It has been said that Europe is a tinderbox lately, and people seem to mention it only in passing, only to concentrate upon the latest atrocity in the news. The EU is under a slow burn at the moment, but eventually…that fire will flare up. It will result first in the form of martial law and work its way to all out war.

Things seem to me to be picking up speed.

Once martial law is enforced, the EU will effectively cease to exist. The EU currency will collapse and all hell will break lose. Whatever EU missions out in the world will be called home to help with the troubles, leaving those who they were helping hanging out to dry. This will result in more conflict as there are those who will take advantage of the void.

Next, NATO will fall apart, as treaty members with somewhat shaky, yet solvent finances do not want to get pulled down with the rest. Oh, the Pols will spin a good spin, but it will be futile.

And as NATO fails, there are those in the wings who are just salivating at the thought. And will take advantage of that as well. Though it will probably be at their own peril.

I understand that this is just a summary of how things could play out. I know it’s more complicated, but I see it happening, in the near future.

The only thing to prevent this scenario is if cooler heads prevail.

Can somebody in Europe prove me wrong? Trust me, I hope I am.

edit on 14-8-2012 by TDawgRex because: Subject line correction


Great thread.

My contribution will be brief. Timing is everything and power voids are needed for global change (think post WW2). If the EU collapses first your scenario will play itself out the way you have displayed it for us.

I would say this; if the USA collapses first, the power vacuum created by that void could serve at the perfect catylist for unifying Europe under one nation... the United States of Europe.

Look for 10 Nations to agree in principal for unifying, and once the USA economy collapses, they will unify and rise to fill the void; this action and the response of China/Russia to Europes power grab will be the cause of WW3... IF the USA collapses prior to Europe.

Otherwise, you paint and accurate picture of how things might play out.

God Bless,



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by paraphi

Originally posted by TDawgRex
Once martial law is enforced, the...

Slow down. Can you come up with a realistic scenario whereby any Western European nation in the EU would enforce martial law? Go on. Give us a clue.


Originally posted by TDawgRex
Can somebody in Europe prove me wrong?


My advice is to travel to Europe and see for yourself.

Regards


Lived in Deutschland for eight years. LOVED IT!


So I have had that cup of coffee, and truth be told, I want more.

But we are living in changing times.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by ElohimJD
 


No offense, but the only way I can see the United States of Europe as a feasible outcome is if they all speak the same language in the Business, Aviation and Governmental sense.

Chances are, that would be English, which I don't think would play out so well with the average citizen. (Even though the majority of Europeans speak english better than than the average American
)



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