Super rich pay no taxes

Super poor dont either

reply to post by hawkiye


Where did I say people worth a million are super rich? In my opinion they are upper middle class.

As I have posted, 1 in a 100 people are not rich.

You are trying to go off on a tangent based on pure nonsense.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by hawkiye

 

The free market scam is to get people to blame government for the actions of the bankers.

They fool people into getting rid of the laws that prevent the bankers from rigging every transaction so they get a slice.

At what point does the US public wake up to this reality?

The banks were created by government! You blame the problem on the banks and rightly so but the government is what created the Fed. The Fed is the bank that is at the root of the problem and it is a product of government. It is the bank that inflates the money supply, lowers interest rates and loans money to the government. It would not exist in a free market.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Where did I say people worth a million are super rich? In my opinion they are upper middle class.

As I have posted, 1 in a 100 people are not rich.

You are trying to go off on a tangent based on pure nonsense.

I thought your OP said those who made over 2 million were the super rich but I looked again and it is 202 million my bad.. It doesn't matter My point based on the math still stands that even if you taxed anyone making over a 2 million at 1 million per year the revenues would not make a difference and they would be even less since I included anyone making over 1 million in my calculation.

Aso it would be substantially less of you taxed anyone making over 200 million since according to your article there is only 400 of them and their combined total at 202 million would only be 80 billion give or take. So even if you taxed them at 50% of that it would only be 40 billion now a molecule of water in the bucket not even a drop.

The simple math blows your entire deluded premise completely out of the water. Taxing the super rich will not do jack for the economy except further justify government theft period!

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by hawkiye

 

The free market scam is to get people to blame government for the actions of the bankers.

They fool people into getting rid of the laws that prevent the bankers from rigging every transaction so they get a slice.

At what point does the US public wake up to this reality?

Government are lackeys for the banksters so it is their fault. The laws do not protect the people geeze look around you they protect the banksters and their scams. The banksters have a monopoly on the currency. In other words we are forced to use their fiat currency by law or risk jail or even murder. How does that protect the people?

Getting rid of those laws would allow us to "choose" what currencies we would prefer to trade with thus breaking the monopoly of the banks. Allowing a free market on currency is the only thing that will break their monopoly as people will gravitate to sound money. In other words people will vote with their wallets and their feet. The power the banks have is in government force forcing people to use their crappy product. if we are free to choose the banks lose their hold on us it is that simple and a proven fact.

The fact that you cannot understand that is just amazing and accounts for your wild bizarre and ridiculous claims.

reply to post by hawkiye


Taxing the rich is only part of the plan.

Sorry I can wrap things up in some slogan that you could buy.

reply to post by poet1b


Taxing the rich solves nothing. The system of government controlled economics is what needs addressing. Taxing people more only increases the governments incentive to spend and exacerbates the problem.

reply to post by crankySamurai


I don't know where you learned your history from, but you got scammed.

The great depression was created by eliminating government controls on banking which almost immediately lead to the rise of large numbers of ponzi schemes.

It is like you are automatically programmed to blame government for everything.

Banks existed long before the US government, and one of things that the founders of the US intended for government is to protect the people from the abuses of the banking corporations.

You have been programmed to attack the one institution most capable of helping you defend yourself against the bankers.

reply to post by crankySamurai


What you don't get is that if rich people aren't expected to pay for government spending, they wil alway push for more gov spending.

Raising taxes on corporations is another big solution. It worked in the fifties, and it can work now. No corporations won't flee the US, because they make their money from us, not the other way around.

reply to post by crankySamurai

To expose and challenge capitalism's blame-the-government ideological crutch does not mean reversing its one-sidedness. We need not and should not celebrate governments and their policies just because capitalism's ideologues blame them. Governments are creatures of their societies. In capitalist societies, corporations and the rich use their resources and power to shape government to their advantages. They also lean on ideological crutches to win enough public support to keep control of the government and society. Workers have been and will continue to be victimized by capitalist controls of economy and politics. To change government policies they need to see through capitalism's ideological crutches. More than that, they will have to organize politically as they did briefly in the 1930s. Yet that, too, was not enough. The New Deal struck by Roosevelt, the CIO and the socialists and communists in the 1930s was a change in government policy, but one that did not change the underlying capitalist economic system. It left the tiny minority of capitalists (major shareholders and boards of directors) in charge of the corporations and they used that position over the last half-century to negate and reverse what happened in the 1930s.

A different economic system would have prevented that outcome. A different economic system would shape and sustain altogether different government policies. A different economic system from the ground up means reorganizing enterprises to put democratic majorities (of employees and of residents of communities that interact with the enterprise) in charge of all the basic decisions: what, how and where to produce and what to do with the profits. With the people in charge of enterprises - instead of tiny groups of capitalists - the economic resources they send to the government (e.g., taxes) will require it finally to serve the people in return. Just as capitalist enterprises always made sure to shape government to work primarily for them, so a social transition to workers' self-directed cooperative enterprises would make sure that government, for the first time, genuinely works for the majority.

Capitalism's Ideological Crutches Monday, 03 September 2012 09:31 By Richard D Wolff, Truthout | Op-Ed

Military CEOs vs. worker salaries

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by crankySamurai

 

I don't know where you learned your history from, but you got scammed.

The great depression was created by eliminating government controls on banking which almost immediately lead to the rise of large numbers of ponzi schemes.

It is like you are automatically programmed to blame government for everything.

Banks existed long before the US government, and one of things that the founders of the US intended for government is to protect the people from the abuses of the banking corporations.

You have been programmed to attack the one institution most capable of helping you defend yourself against the bankers.

edit on 3-9-2012 by poet1b because: Wordsmith

Your the one that needs to learn history. The great depression was created by the Federal reserve act that gave the Federal Reserve a monopoly on the currency and the ability to inflate and ignore the gold and silver standard. We had none of these problems on a national scale until it was passed and just 20 years later we had the worst depression in history due to their inflationary intervention and manufactured boom bust cycles. The federal reserve act imposed a heavy regulation on banking forcing all banks to become agent banks of the federal reserve using their currency or be forced out of business by government leading to confiscation of hard money by FDR. those are the hard irrefutable facts!!!

Your complete and utter ignorance is monumental and your delusional parroting of marxist/Socialist propaganda annoying and tiresome... You are either completely clueless or have an agenda to keep spreading your lies despite the overwhelming evidence against your claims.

Raising taxes on corporations is another big solution. It worked in the fifties, and it can work now. No corporations won't flee the US, because they make their money from us, not the other way around.

And here is a perfect example of your complete ridiculousness...Sigh. Uh corporations have fled the US at ever increasing numbers since the 50's more every year. People can just look around and see reality completely contradicts your rhetoric... Are you really seriously that clueless that people are just going to say gee you are right when they have watched the exodus of companies offshore most of their lives? Amazing...

reply to post by hawkiye


We had even worse problems before the creation of the fed res. if you knew anything about economic history, you would know this. The fed red was a compromise, and it was working until under Coolidge, banks were allowed to create trusts. Then the stock market ponzu schemes kicked in and quickly spun out of control. The solution was to separate banking and investment firms, which worked fine until Newt and the repubs eliminated these laws, leading to the Economic disaster of 2008.

We had avoided depressions for sixty years, until the rise of the free market con allowed them to do it again.

At best your attempt to blame the fed gov is second hand. The banks are privately owned, as are the investment firms, and they did it to themselves.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by crankySamurai

 

I don't know where you learned your history from, but you got scammed.

The great depression was created by eliminating government controls on banking which almost immediately lead to the rise of large numbers of ponzi schemes.

It is like you are automatically programmed to blame government for everything.

Banks existed long before the US government, and one of things that the founders of the US intended for government is to protect the people from the abuses of the banking corporations.

You have been programmed to attack the one institution most capable of helping you defend yourself against the bankers.

edit on 3-9-2012 by poet1b because: Wordsmith

I'm not sure what controls on the banks your referring to or the ponzi schemes your talking about so ill skip on to how the great depression actually was caused.

The Federal Reserved lowered interest rates which gives incentives for business to borrow. If interest rates are low there is little incentive to save (since there is little return) but plenty of incentive to borrow and spend (since a loan cost so little). With lots of business borrowing the money supply is increasing and a boom is created, this was the roaring twenties. Businesses are taking that cheap money and spending it on new projects, but unfortunately there is more money than resources and prices and cost of production begin to rise as there are to many dollars chasing to few goods. With so many projects underway people soon realized that there were not enough resources to complete all these this new projects and that there would be no way to play back these loans. Hence business tanked the stock market crashed and people ran to the banks to get out what little money was there. The banks did not have peoples money since the banks had loaned it all out and the investments were bad so it would not get it back.

The Fed setting interest rates low distorts the market signals and malinvestment occurs. The Fed was created by government for the purpose of having control of the economy. It is not a free market entity and would never arise in a free market.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by hawkiye

 

We had even worse problems before the creation of the fed res. if you knew anything about economic history, you would know this. The fed red was a compromise, and it was working until under Coolidge, banks were allowed to create trusts. Then the stock market ponzu schemes kicked in and quickly spun out of control. The solution was to separate banking and investment firms, which worked fine until Newt and the repubs eliminated these laws, leading to the Economic disaster of 2008.

We had avoided depressions for sixty years, until the rise of the free market con allowed them to do it again.

At best your attempt to blame the fed gov is second hand. The banks are privately owned, as are the investment firms, and they did it to themselves.

Once again all of the problems before the Fed were not products of the free market but instead due to interference with it. Tell me what problems your talking about and ill address their causes.

reply to post by hawkiye


Those corporations haven't left the US, they have simply outsourced to slave labor abroad. The only reason corps have done this is because they depend on the US military to defend their overseas assets, and they have the US middle class to pay for it all.

Without the US military to back them, they would find those assets quickly confiscated.

Even more important is that most of the tech is being created in the US. And that isn't likely to change anyte soon.

In addition, more corporations invest in the US than anywhere else.

Even after we raise corporate taxes back up where they should be, corporations will continue to invest heavily in the US.

reply to post by crankySamurai


If you don't know about the changes in the way banks could create investment companies, then you know nothing.

Wages were kept low, spending was kept going by loose credit, which is created by the privately owned banks. This was enable by crooked investment practices, like the whole creation of the housing bubble with bad loans rated as good.

The problem isn't government interference, but a lack of government oversight. Coolidge believed in the whole ideology that government wasn't supposed to interfere in business, so he let them do what they want, and the result was the Great Depression.

You keep trying to blame government for the actions of corporations. It is madness.

reply to post by crankySamurai


Of course nothing was created by the ideal concept of the free market, that you refer to, because it doesn't exist.

However, the policies put in place by the people pulling the free market scam are exactly what has repeatedly destroyed our economy.

Given the opportunity to cheat the system, that is exactly what people will do, and that is how this free market scam works.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by crankySamurai

 

If you don't know about the changes in the way banks could create investment companies, then you know nothing.

Wages were kept low, spending was kept going by loose credit, which is created by the privately owned banks. This was enable by crooked investment practices, like the whole creation of the housing bubble with bad loans rated as good.

The problem isn't government interference, but a lack of government oversight. Coolidge believed in the whole ideology that government wasn't supposed to interfere in business, so he let them do what they want, and the result was the Great Depression.

You keep trying to blame government for the actions of corporations. It is madness.

edit on 3-9-2012 by poet1b because: Accidentally posted before finished

The root problem of both of the housing bubble and the great depression were the same. It has monetary manipulation by the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve is a private bank that was created and given exorbitant amounts of power by the government back in 1913. The Federal Reserve has total control on the money supply and is able to set interest rate. This is power that NO ONE should have. It would never occur without government enforcement.

The removal of glass-steagall was not a good move but it did not cause the housing bubble. The housing bubble was created by the Federal Reserve manipulating the money supply. This led to fist a boom in the housing market and then a bust (the correction of the malinvestment).

reply to post by crankySamurai


The housing boom was created by bundling bad loans and rating them as good. The Fed Res had nothing to do with it, but the GW admin should have stepped in and ended what was obviously a huge scam.

Again, the Fed Res is comprised of privately held banks. These boom bust cycles are the failure of the Fed Gov to enforce laws against corrupt business practices.

reply to post by poet1b

We had even worse problems before the creation of the fed res. if you knew anything about economic history,

No we did not the problems we had before were a Sunday picnic compared to what happened affer the creation of the federal reserve starting in the crash in the 20. the crash of 29 the great depression and the national recessions we have had about ever 10 years since.. They were small local and regional affairs limited to the banks in those areas that did not follow sound money practices and did not effect the entire country. People quickly stopped patronizing those banks and moved on.

19th century America is a good example. With a free market in currency in other words no monopoly enforced on any currency by government fiat the economy remained relatively stable and prosperous along with the dollar (silver, which by the way predates the constitution) despite the abuse it took during the civil war and the only time problems arose is when the rules of sound money were violated and the the currency debased by fiat or otherwise ( but nothing like the depression and recessions of the 20th century. The economy expanded and prospered even while prices came down. This continued right up to 1913. See Murry Rothbard's A History of Money and Banking in the United States... mises.org...