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Russian attack submarine sailed in Gulf of Mexico undetected for weeks, U.S. officials say

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posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 01:51 PM
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This may be true, but look at it from a tactical and strategic point of view...Russia wasn't going to attack the US, and the US knew that. So why blow the whistle, since they weren't going to cause any damage? Why not lull them into a false sense of security regarding our defenses? Strategy 101. And you can be certain that American subs operate of the coast of Russia every once in a while...There is no way Russia can monitor the entirety of its coastline, although much of its military strength lies further within the interior of the country...But a war with Russia is unlikely in the next few years, imo. If a war develops, it will result from tensions elsewhere, probably Asia Minor or Africa, or the Middle East maybe.




posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR
 


You are right. The US (and rightly so) does not rely on electronic detection, sonobouys and countermeasures for all of its sub detection.. We still have eyes on the water.. 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Nonstop... inport and out at sea.. There are redundant watches too.. several layers that are constantly watching...(None of this stuff is classified.. as a matter of fact, its good if the enemy knows this..)

edit on 15-8-2012 by sensible1 because: spl



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 02:37 PM
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I would not like more defense spending.
I would like a lot less offense spending and put a chunk of that toward defense.
The big boys have always played cat and mouse, it is how bored boat captains break up the monotony.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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Nothing evokes fear in the American "Baby-Boomer" populous than a single wayward Rusky sub roaming around in their backyard. If Russia wanted to invade or attack they'd do it along side their best pal China; to which America would have limited real defenses against.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 03:15 PM
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Since we can basically find submerged nuclear submarines. I would be fairly sure the US knew the sub was there

www.milsatmagazine.com...
The satellites in the Naval Ocean Surveillance System (NOSS), which are also referred to as Whitecloud, were placed in orbits of 1600 km altitude with an inclination of 63° and a separation of 100°. It is believed the satellites carried side and forward looking radar, multi-spectral scanners and infra-red detectors and are said to have had the capability to detect warm water in the wake of a submerged nuclear submarine. To date, three separate generations have been identified, but the NOSS program remains highly classified.

The first was launched in 1976, the most recent in 2007

And since DARPA has a public link on Blue Laser sub communication. You can bet they can find a sub underwater to shoot the laser at said submarine



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Fromabove

Originally posted by hp1229
Cry for more budget or truely a flaw in the anti-submarine warfare systems?

A Russian nuclear-powered attack submarine armed with long-range cruise missiles operated undetected in the Gulf of Mexico for several weeks and its travel in strategic U.S. waters was only confirmed after it left the region, the Washington Free Beacon has learned.

LINK
Your expert opinions/thoughts/comments/viewpoints please.

In various military tactical theories, one that is often considered is to let your enemy believe he has one up on you. This leaves them vulnerable when it comes down to a war. If your enemy is confident that they can get away with something, then they will become arrogant and proud of themselves for doing so, and that is the fatal mistake.

At no time was the submarine not detected or not under surveillance. We needed to know it's capabilities, it's sound wave patterns, it's water displacement, and all the rest that goes with it. It would be stupid for the Russians to believe they fooled the United States in such a way as this.

edit on 14-8-2012 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)

True and I agree. I'm even wondering if the Sub was even there to begin with



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by BrokenCircles
It's quite humorous how so many of you like to pick and choose what you want to believe.



[color=FFAB91]The government lies! The media lies. The government lies! THEY ALL LIE!!!!

Then unquestionably accept a story that apparently originated in a Washington D.C. Newspaper.


Yeah, some right wing rag that started in Feb 2012.

Check out the About Us section on their website.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 06:46 PM
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Well, the keyword is "confirmed."

They didn't say "We had no idea."

So, yea. And, it does not indicate danger unless they said "We would not have been prepared for such a submarine had it done X Y Z."

Russia would be smart to have used that submarine as a decoy. They're setting up their real threat while the US is glad to have confirmed this one.


No single country should dominate the world militarily. That sets the stage for international bullying, even more than we already see. USA needs its butt kicked to show it to treat other countries with respect.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 08:17 PM
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Obviously, the Russians aren't stupid enough to give US the chance to bomb Russia without getting bombed.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
I don't know much about the whole anti sub system and all that jazz, but one thing has just been confirmed to me as more than just movie fiction.......


Russia...Got...BALLS

ETA: How did it enter the Gulf?? That's a long ass trip...
edit on 14-8-2012 by My.mind.is.mine because: (no reason given)


I imagine that they didn't just go through the Panama Canal


But if the submarine was launched from Russia, that's a very long trip around South America. Maybe it was launched from a strategic base somewhere in the Pacific, but I doubt this as mother Russia has very few allies in this neck of the woods.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 11:20 PM
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How did it enter the gulf?..hmmm, gee..its the ocean and they're all interconnected? I mean come on..so what if a russian ship entered the gulf? Its not like the gulf belongs to the u.s or mexico (aside from 10 or 15 miles buffer zone of the coastline), its not like there's a natural barrier between the gulf and atlantic, so it makes sense it can get there if it wants.. whats with this alarmism?

The gulf is part of the natural worlds oceans, as thus any ship has the right to go there. Remember the term 'international waters'? Honestly I can't believe people are bothering to think this is a problem..Russia isn't exactly our friend, but they're not yet our enemy, despite rising tensions because of the iran thing, which is being caused by our own governments actions anyways.. We're always baiting for #, spanish-american war, japanese attack on pearl harbor, 9/11..come on people..



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by CaptainNemo

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
I don't know much about the whole anti sub system and all that jazz, but one thing has just been confirmed to me as more than just movie fiction.......


Russia...Got...BALLS

ETA: How did it enter the Gulf?? That's a long ass trip...
edit on 14-8-2012 by My.mind.is.mine because: (no reason given)


I imagine that they didn't just go through the Panama Canal


But if the submarine was launched from Russia, that's a very long trip around South America. Maybe it was launched from a strategic base somewhere in the Pacific, but I doubt this as mother Russia has very few allies in this neck of the woods.

Its actually quite possible, if this was a stealth infiltration exercise, and thats a quite a big IF, especially if it was a nuclear ship, and not diesel. (its literally impossible for a nuclear boat to run completely silent, a diesel ship can, however with the lack of development on newer diesel ships, they're very outdated.

However, in this example, a submarine could pass through the panama canal undetected if it stays nestled in the turbulent streams of water from a large ships 'screw' (the nautical term for the propeller,..at least according to my uncle who was a sonar op, weapons officer onboard a couple of los angeles and ohio class subs). Staying directly behind and within 15 meters of, lets say a cargo or oil tankers screw, would completely mask the sound of the submarines screw.

Again, a stealth infiltration exercise would NEED the use of a diesel sub, unless russia figured out how to create a Magnetohydrodynamic propulsor, efficient enough to use on a sub.. But I highly doubt that.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 01:41 AM
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Russia is basically saying - "Look, we can travel near your shores undetected with a nuclear submarine." translation: Don't * with Russia.
edit on 16-8-2012 by L00kingGlass because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 02:03 AM
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U.S. submarines are constantly present in the Barents sea near the border of Russia, the Russians consider as one of the main reasons of death of the submarine "Kursk" - collision with an American submarine in the Russian territorial waters by the way



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by PrinceDreamer
 


If that were only true, unfortunately it's not in the hands of the general population. If you went out and polled informed american citizens you'd find that most of them are quite happy to live and let live. It's the corporate invasion and big government that is pulling the strings now.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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For what its worth, it seems the media reports that the Akula was operating undetected are erroneous...


An official with the US Department of Defense on Wednesday denied media reports that a Russian nuclear-powered submarine recently operated in restricted US waters for up to a month without being detected.

"I don't know what that information was based on, but it was not correct," Wendy Snyder, a spokeswoman with the Pentagon, said to the Global Times.

The Washington Free Beacon newspaper, citing unnamed sources, had reported that a Russian nuclear attack submarine sailed undetected in the Gulf of Mexico for weeks and was not discovered until it had left the strategic waters.

US rejects report on Russian nuclear sub patrolling Gulf of Mexico undetected



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by Arikra

Originally posted by CaptainNemo

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
I don't know much about the whole anti sub system and all that jazz, but one thing has just been confirmed to me as more than just movie fiction.......


Russia...Got...BALLS

ETA: How did it enter the Gulf?? That's a long ass trip...
edit on 14-8-2012 by My.mind.is.mine because: (no reason given)


I imagine that they didn't just go through the Panama Canal


But if the submarine was launched from Russia, that's a very long trip around South America. Maybe it was launched from a strategic base somewhere in the Pacific, but I doubt this as mother Russia has very few allies in this neck of the woods.

Its actually quite possible, if this was a stealth infiltration exercise, and thats a quite a big IF, especially if it was a nuclear ship, and not diesel. (its literally impossible for a nuclear boat to run completely silent, a diesel ship can, however with the lack of development on newer diesel ships, they're very outdated.

However, in this example, a submarine could pass through the panama canal undetected if it stays nestled in the turbulent streams of water from a large ships 'screw' (the nautical term for the propeller,..at least according to my uncle who was a sonar op, weapons officer onboard a couple of los angeles and ohio class subs). Staying directly behind and within 15 meters of, lets say a cargo or oil tankers screw, would completely mask the sound of the submarines screw.

Again, a stealth infiltration exercise would NEED the use of a diesel sub, unless russia figured out how to create a Magnetohydrodynamic propulsor, efficient enough to use on a sub.. But I highly doubt that.


Sorry but an Ohio class submarine has a draft of somewhere near 36 ft. and the canal has a draft restriction of 42 ft.

It's a good story but it would be physically impossible for a modern sub the size of an Ohio ( or a smaller 688 class Los Angeles) to transit the canal while submerged much less submerged under a deep draft tanker or container ship.

Are you sure that your uncle wasn't talking about the Suez canal?



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by Drunkenparrot

Originally posted by Arikra

Originally posted by CaptainNemo

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
I don't know much about the whole anti sub system and all that jazz, but one thing has just been confirmed to me as more than just movie fiction.......


Russia...Got...BALLS

ETA: How did it enter the Gulf?? That's a long ass trip...
edit on 14-8-2012 by My.mind.is.mine because: (no reason given)


I imagine that they didn't just go through the Panama Canal


But if the submarine was launched from Russia, that's a very long trip around South America. Maybe it was launched from a strategic base somewhere in the Pacific, but I doubt this as mother Russia has very few allies in this neck of the woods.

Its actually quite possible, if this was a stealth infiltration exercise, and thats a quite a big IF, especially if it was a nuclear ship, and not diesel. (its literally impossible for a nuclear boat to run completely silent, a diesel ship can, however with the lack of development on newer diesel ships, they're very outdated.

However, in this example, a submarine could pass through the panama canal undetected if it stays nestled in the turbulent streams of water from a large ships 'screw' (the nautical term for the propeller,..at least according to my uncle who was a sonar op, weapons officer onboard a couple of los angeles and ohio class subs). Staying directly behind and within 15 meters of, lets say a cargo or oil tankers screw, would completely mask the sound of the submarines screw.

Again, a stealth infiltration exercise would NEED the use of a diesel sub, unless russia figured out how to create a Magnetohydrodynamic propulsor, efficient enough to use on a sub.. But I highly doubt that.


Sorry but an Ohio class submarine has a draft of somewhere near 36 ft. and the canal has a draft restriction of 42 ft.

It's a good story but it would be physically impossible for a modern sub the size of an Ohio ( or a smaller 688 class Los Angeles) to transit the canal while submerged much less submerged under a deep draft tanker or container ship.

Are you sure that your uncle wasn't talking about the Suez canal?


Theres a reason I specifically said a diesel sub would be required for stealth infiltration, They're generally all much smaller than modern nuclear powered subs, can run completely silent (until they're forced to surface to recharge the batteries) and depending on the variant, would be able to slip by unnoticed.

I never ever said, or even mentioned that a nuclear sub would (or even could) go through the canal while leeching its way through, hidden in the wake of a much larger surface craft.

It is a nice story, and depending on the mission,boat, and experience of the crew, is plausible..But again, its just a nice little story.

I also have to admit my knowledge of naval technologies isn't what it could be..(though I imagine the suez canal would be much easier to do than the panama canal)
edit on 16-8-2012 by Arikra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 08:51 PM
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There was a 300 foot long Russian Juliett 484 sub complete with missile silos moored at a pier in St Petersburg Florida for years. The city was charging them $65 a day till they finally moved it up to Rhode Island in 2002. The sub later reportedly sank but who knows maybe some drug smugglers bought it?

The central gulf is a pretty large area to monitor, but they can track whales from space fairly easily and submarines can be identified by their hollow signature you would think.

Maybe the question is undetected by who?



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by Arikra
 


A point you may be interested in, some nuclear subs can shut down their coolant pumps and run strictly on battery power for brief periods.


Some nuclear submarines such as the American Ohio class can operate with their reactor coolant pumps secured, making them quieter than electric subs. A conventional submarine operating on batteries is almost completely silent, the only noise coming from the shaft bearings, propeller, and flow noise around the hull, all of which stops when the sub hovers in mid-water to listen, leaving only the noise from crew activity.


Submarine

I know the RN uses this technique on their nuclear subs as a tactical maneuver to reduce detection range.



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