Russian attack submarine sailed in Gulf of Mexico undetected for weeks, U.S. officials say

Cry for more budget or truely a flaw in the anti-submarine warfare systems?

A Russian nuclear-powered attack submarine armed with long-range cruise missiles operated undetected in the Gulf of Mexico for several weeks and its travel in strategic U.S. waters was only confirmed after it left the region, the Washington Free Beacon has learned.

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Your expert opinions/thoughts/comments/viewpoints please.

I don't know much about the whole anti sub system and all that jazz, but one thing has just been confirmed to me as more than just movie fiction.......


Russia...Got...BALLS

ETA: How did it enter the Gulf?? That's a long ass trip...

Maybe it's possible the US Navy did know they were there and simply wanted to test our tracking capabilities? I would find it odd if all the military planners hadn't envisioned scenarios like this and planned accordingly. I also suppose it's possible that oil spill a few years ago and the resulting cleanup and chemicals damaged any sonar devices in the Gulf of Mexico.

reply to post by hp1229


I just saw this article and almost started a thread myself.

WTH?

It sounds like they could have attacked us and been half way back to Russia before we even knew what happened.

Somebody has fell asleep at the wheel and we're going to crash soon.

reply to post by hp1229


It appears it was operating in the Caribbean more than in the actual Gulf, and the Navy Base they are talking about is on the Atlantic Coast of Georgia. It doesn't appear to have actually gone into the sensitive Gulf waters where it could strike at refineries and major ports and cities all the way into the Midwest.

I lived along the Gulf Coast near Eglin Airforce Base on 9/11, and after 9/11 they tripled the amount of radar stations on the barrier islands. There is also a Naval Air Station in Pensacola, (I've seen a sub in Pensacola Bay) and in Naval Base in Panama City and Jacksonville, in addition to all of the huge Air Force bases in Florida. There are bombing ranges in the Gulf of Mexico that the Navy and Air Force use to practice. I just don't believe a foreign sub could operate in the Gulf. I can believe they were cruising the Caribbean, but not the actual Gulf.

Also, why would they admit to it now? Why would we admit to it now? This seems like a cry for more funding. If they did penetrate our detection, they wouldn't tell us about it and get us to fix the flaws. I think it is more likely that we DID detect them, but we played coy, and now we are using it for public perception to increase funding.

The U.S. Navy is so stripped of assets that a friggen AKULA is playing in our little Pond in the Gulf and we don't even know it's there??

Can anyone in the Navy perhaps toss a comment out about what may have happened to SOSUS?? I was under the impression growing up and with repeated assurances for a couple decades that SOSUS would prevent Soviet submarines from running up to our beaches without our knowing about it. So they can start camping out our shorelines now and we may or may not ever even know they are there?

Oh great....and this is who people confidently state we can stomp without any concerns of meaningful response eh? I think we're getting snowed on how good we 'are' compared to how good we once 'were'.

Makes This Thread seem a lot more plausible though doesn't it!! People think the mainland US is invincible, but our government is so inept and caught up with politicking and in-fighting that an invasion seems like it could happen pretty easily. There are a hundred different plausible scenarios in that thread, and none of them include a Nuclear Sub in the Gulf of Mexico!! That was thought to be impossible.

No longer in the Navy, have been out for a little over a year, but here goes.

SOSUS is still operational, or was the last I knew. I was not a sonar tech (I was a crippie), but I do remember them speaking about it in CIC from time to time.

An AKULA class is no joke... that technology with it's caterpillar drives is absolutely astounding. The sub guys always used to tell us surface Sailors that 'If you put our boys (US, best trained submariners on the planet) on an AKULA(quietest non-diesel submarine), you could active ping all day long and you'd never find us."

I bet they were whooping it up on their leaving the area... This would not have happened if we had leaders that cared about their country instead of being bent on destroying it..

Everything now is focused on making the average American citizen the enemy, instead of potential foes over seas..

this announcement could mean so many things,

- they are trying to justify amping up military spending?

- they knew it was there the whole time and were testing the tracking capabilities as well as the moving patterns and speed etc

- they knew it was there but want Russians to believe they didn't know

- they really didnt know

- there was no russian sub at all and they are building a boogie man for a false flag



my initial reaction is that if it was really undetected they wouldnt tell the public about it.

reply to post by peter_kandra

Maybe you are making excuses for the US military. Maybe they are not perfect even though they spend billions of dollars in defense. I think the US tries to portray an unbeatable force but in reality they do have flaws. They may deny it, or maybe they will use this as an excuse to regain their defense spending.

Originally posted by Meekbot2000
this announcement could mean so many things,

- they are trying to justify amping up military spending?

- they knew it was there the whole time and were testing the tracking capabilities as well as the moving patterns and speed etc

- they knew it was there but want Russians to believe they didn't know

- they really didnt know

- there was no russian sub at all and they are building a boogie man for a false flag



my initial reaction is that if it was really undetected they wouldnt tell the public about it.

It wouldn't be out of character for our government to be planting the seed of a renewed Russian enemy....

I don't really understand why people find this so surprising, the minute any country (not just America) builds something of a defensive nature other countries will try to find a way to circumnavigate it. The human mind is very creative.

Perhaps it is a American psyche problem, they have been force fed a propaganda diet of American exceptionalism for so long they actually believe it is true. It always seems to me on this website and others a large percentage of the US population believe that the are the greatest nation on earth and everyone else are second class bumbling oafs and only the mighty America has decent tech

Maybe a few more realisations like this would actually do America good when they realise they are not untouchable and just as vulnerable as most other large developed civilisations, make them less eager to lash out at other countries. I doubt it though

according to multiple international agreements just 12 miles into the sea can be claimed as territorial waters.
a submarine within this zone would be declared to be hostile and probably shot at.

the next 12 miles out are declared as 'contigous zone'.
A foreign submarine would be declared to be suspicious and requested to leave if possible.

200 miles from the coastline is declared to be the 'exclusive economic zone'
a russian fishtrawler would be asked to leave, but since a submarine would not start fishing there noone can really do something against it, because it has the right to be there.

So having a look on the map i would say there is a good ammount of shippable sea in the mexican gulf to make a russian submarine operating there to be legal.

wether it can be detected or not is another story.
wether we find that cool or not is also a different story.

fact is, NATO submarines do the same off the russian coast too, so what is all the hype about ?

reply to post by hp1229


Russia is talking again about using Cuba as a naval base...

To be honest who cares... So long as they did not breech US territorial waters they are free to exercise freedom of navigation. We do the same things directed towards them...

While both sides have impressive technology, its just that - technology. Its made by humans who are not perfect, operated by humans who are not perfect, maintained by humans who are not perfect.

Technology only gets us so far. The rest is up to the human x factor.

reply to post by Xcathdra


The Cuban Missile Crisis says otherwise. We don't want high-powered weapons so close they can strike without warning, just like Russia doesn't want our weapons in Poland and Germany.

It isn't breaking any international laws for the sub to be there, but we at least need one of our own shadowing it and making sure they aren't prepping to launch a big nuke or something!

If Russia does put a big base in Cuba, it is our own fault. We should have lifted the sanctions on Cuba, opened up tourism, and been making friends and trade partners there decades ago. We have a base on Cuba, a HOSTILE base! So, I agree with you, Russia has every right to put one there, but if our government had any sense at all, we would pre-emptively befriend Cuba and make sure that doesn't happen. Hell, Cuba is MUCH closer to us than Hawaii or Puerto Rico, it really should be a US territory by now, but our government is short-sighted and vindictive, so instead we spite ourselves by ignoring them.

Remember, everybody: always be afraid. If you're not afraid 24/7, the Ruskies win. And even though the government doesn't have two pennies to rub together, double defense spending.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Ever since the advent of the ballistic missile submarine, there is no use for a naval base in Cuba of any sort.

Additionally, with such a weapon... as we have deployed around the world, there is no nation that the United States cannot strike without warning. It is the ultimate deterrent.

The AKULA is a nuclear-powered attack submarine... I would actually be concerned had it been a TYPHOON or OSCAR variant.

My thoughts were: We are way to busy policing the rest of the world. Why bother to protect our backyard/coastline. That Gulf has been wide open, actually the whole Southern US is free for invasion yet the powers seem to think we need to send more troops and construct more bases in some sandy sh!&#holes. And it is not just the sandbox- how many bases do we really need in Japan? Europe? Etc...

Also, wasn't Russia just making nice with Venezuela? Isn't that the same country whose President called our Prez a clown?

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by hp1229

 

Russia is talking again about using Cuba as a naval base...

To be honest who cares... So long as they did not breech US territorial waters they are free to exercise freedom of navigation. We do the same things directed towards them...

While both sides have impressive technology, its just that - technology. Its made by humans who are not perfect, operated by humans who are not perfect, maintained by humans who are not perfect.

Technology only gets us so far. The rest is up to the human x factor.

Great post!


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