I was wrong. I'm (not) sorry.

Originally posted by CrikeyMagnet

Originally posted by mideast
reply to post by followtheevidence

 

Some people do like to look like prophets , without being good.

But , I have noticed that many people are afraid of the propaganda-machine and want to make others aware of the situation.

MHO.

There is no harm in knowing more, and in questioning the things that happen around us... Or the things that look like they're about to happen around us.

Ever noticed how we're actually encouraged to question the world around us... Until we get to a few sacred topics we can't question? I'll not give examples here, because every one of you just thought of an example. (or if you didn't, you should probably get out more.)

Unfortunately, propaganda has become a very refined science. It's hard not to lose people to it.

Crikey (if I may call you that),

The umbrage is because people saw images they wanted to see, connected dots they wanted to dot, theorised what this meant and came up with their conclusions. Nothing wrong with that, a bit crazy if you ask me, but that is up to them.

The issue came when people question this and were flamed mercilessly as 'sheeple', 'not awake', 'schills', 'disinfo artists' in very blunt terms and told they would be sorry when aliens landed/Project Bluebeam happened/Israel attacked Iran. The language was rude and disrespectful and the people who for some reason wanted a disaster to happen just went quiet - or laughingly posted a thread saying they had actually 'saved' the world from an attack.

I think people maybe thought that this was an issue where even in the anonominity that ATS provides, those people shouting the loudest should have the humility to apologise for their rudeness and discourtesy.

Let's face it, it won't happen, they will instead be looking for the next date the Earth will face disaster at the hands of the Illuminati/ET/choose your government of choice, and the whole bandwagon will begin again.

I would say thank God these people don't have guns to settle their arguments, but..............

Originally posted by followtheevidence
There was a 16-year-old girl this year who killed herself after researching prophesied 2012 doomsday disasters.

And you are going to use this one in a million shot as lever-edge to convince people there is something seriously "wrong" with speculating? Now THAT...is propaganda...

There's a very REAL consequence to posting this sort of subject-matter online. You just never know who your audience is going to be. These sorts of scenarios can have a very real and irrevocable impact on an impressionable mind. We're all susceptible to the power of suggestion. So no, I don't take these threads lightly given the possible scope of their influence.

Yet the media gets away with doing this day in and day out...tailoring their "breaking news" and "investigative journalism" to spread fear to those who will eat it up like cake...

The problem isn't the propaganda...the problem is the people who are willing and continue to eat it up like cake...the problem isn't even cake...how do you get people to stop eating cake?

Enlighten them, make them aware of possibilities, show them the flip-side...

Does cake make people fat or does eating it make people fat? I stared at a cake once for an hour and didn't gain a oz....this analogy goes for virtually everything we see as a problem in this world...its no different than the gun issue, and any other political issue...

Censorship is never the solution...why do people still have the mental gears running on illegalize this, censor that and supress this that and the other thing as a "solution" to percieved "problems"???

These are not solutions they are band-aids they are crutches they are temporary blinders that don't actually create any sustainable solution...They don't teach anyone anything...they don't create people capable of seeing through BS...they just make futile attempts at ridding the world of BS...which isn't practical.

Lately, there's a growing element of mania associated with the prediction threads here on ATS. I've learned to stay away. I really have to call into question the motive for posting one failed prediction after another.

Part of me truly wonders if these "prophets" are merely posting because they want to feel exceptional or unique or important more so than for the purpose of actually warning anyone of some future nonissue.

Just one girl's opinion ...

Regards,

FTE

edit on 14-8-2012 by followtheevidence because: (no reason given)

Personally I didn't see any mania...I didn't see people selling all their belongings, I didn't see people quitting their jobs or barricading themselves in their houses...I didn't see or hear anything of that nature...the "mania" is a sensationalistic buzzword that simply doesn't suffice to describe what was really going on...

what was really going on? People were browsing the freaking web looking at symbols and posting numbers and linking articles and speculating...how this can be viewed as "mania" is beyond me...

For whatever reason things that happen in the cyber world seem to be exaggerated and sensationalized to the point one would probably actually think the "doomprophets" are causing mass chaos across the globe...This simply ins't true...their sitting on their assess at home "researching" watching youtube, reading articles, making speculative posts on forums...

Wisdom eludes the best of us.

Owning up to it is to be a man. More of us should have been taught Aesop's Fables.

That is all.

I think you should apologize for puting up this thread! Oh, I'm sorry, what were you "whining" about?

Give me a break.

The fact of the matter is there is always someone that will post some kind of prophecy or prediction whether logically based on facts or whether based on some personal revelation that they interpret to be from aliens, god, etc;...

I think I speak for the majority of who you call "whiners" when I say I hate predictions and I hate people that think they know a date something might occur that is significant to us and our kind and end up being wrong, which is what happens 100% of the time.

We as a group, being tired of failed prophecies will not stand by and just let all the false prophets around here get away with their perceived and yet false revelation or illusion. By keeping our "Predictors" of events in check we can limit the amount of nonsense spewed from some psychosis or ego racked individual and in the end limit worry, and other potential consequences that come from someone who repeatedly cries wolf.

There are simple steps anyone can take to not get flamed in the event of a failed date, prophecy, event etc.

1. Don't ever EVER put a date on anything significant unless you are 100% certain it will occur.
2. Make sure that the supposed evidence backing your "dated" prophecy is real and substantially verifiable. IE: Not a dream or a feeling.
3. Realize that some of us are so fed up with this kind of sh*t that if we were to meet you in person upon such failed predictions, there might be much worse verbal repercussions due to our impatience with these types over the years

We have enough god toting, scripture quoting, numerology spewing, end of the world predicting, natural disaster psychic prophets in this world as it is. We have too many people claiming to know and too little that end up being right. So instead of labeling yourself "one of those" and becoming automatically discredited from that moment on until forever, keep it to yourself, please for the love of christ on the cross and for the sake of the rest of our sanity.

We're all sick of false claims and no one is exempt from the hellfire that comes after a failed one. Just the way it is around here if we are to keep the crazies at bay. Fighting ignorance one delusional prophet at a time.

Originally posted by James1982
Actually, I disagree. I think bogus predictions are far worse, and far more annoying than the people who whine about it later.

Now, that being said...

I'm not going to bash people that simply keep an open mind. The folks that speculate and think something is possible aren't really doing anything wrong.

The ones that I absolutely HATE are the people who are SO DAMN sure of themselves that they not only speak as if what they are saying is FACT, but when someone disagrees with them they pull the whole "Blah blah you're a sheep, your asleep, you don't know anything, you'll see after I get proven right"

I hate these people. If you want to keep an open mind and don't want to shut down an idea that's cool. But do NOT go around acting as if you are somehow some enlightened individual that knows more than everybody else because you read a thread on ATS or watched some YouTube video. I see this crap all the time. "I watched this video that says there will be an earthquake tomorrow, it's happening, all of you doubters are stupid sheep that don't know anything"

Then tomorrow comes, nothing happens, and these instigators slink away to whatever dark corner they came from to reappear at a later date with another bogus prediction that they abuse other people for not believing in.

If you want to keep an open mind that's your right, but you have zero right to attack others because they DON'T believe some ridiculous BS that makes zero sense and could be debunked by a mentally disabled 5 year old.

I agree with this--it says it all.It's one thing to look at something and speculate and just in general say "Hey,guys,what IF?" and then open up a dialogue.
It is quite a different thing when a member on this site posts a speculation thread and has an agenda and tried to force that agenda/belief on someone else and if anyone disagrees with them,they are stupid,closed-minded,blind sheeple and are verbally attacked and ridiculed for offering an alternate point of view or sharing facts or other info.

Some on here can be very disrespectful and abusive,some author threads and claim they want to share thoughts,info and are open for discussion or ask at the top of the thread what others think and the moment a few members offer differing points of view/thoughts/beliefs,they attack them,call them names and act very disrespectfully.

The people in my first example I have no problem with.The people in the second example I have a huge problem with.Also,OP--calling people "whiners" at the top of your thread only serves to inflame others and perpetuate the very behavior you are claiming to disagree with.I forced myself past it because I DO have an open mind,I starred and flagged you in spite of it because I believe in putting principles before personalities.

Originally posted by CrikeyMagnet

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
So loudly "speculating" about bombs while in an airplane or a fire in a packed theatre is ok too?

Words have meaning and stirring a panic, consequences.

Really? That's nonsense.

Are you a politician? This is actually a political approach to answering that tries to blow your opponent's statement out of proportion in order to make it seem absurd. I'm afraid the two positions do not mesh.

Are you a pundit? How do these position dont mesh? Elaborate please.

reply to post by followtheevidence

There was a 16-year-old girl this year who killed herself after researching prophesied 2012 doomsday disasters.

People commit suicide everyday for various reasons- money, abusive relationships, depression, etc. One person commits suicide this year over 2012 and it's big news.

I wonder how many fathers committed suicide in the last couple of years due to the recession and guilt of not being able to provide for their families and losing everything.

Millions of people research 2012 every day, ATS is proof of that. Not all of us commit suicide. That leaves me believing that her suicide was about much more than just 2012.

reply to post by CrikeyMagnet


It's one thing to speculate. It's another to insist that it will happen. And that's the problem.

Even speculating can give the impression that it most likely will happen if there's 1000 threads about the same thing. Mods need to clean up this stuff and merge these threads together for the sake of our sanity.

reply to post by Crossfate


Bravo Crossfate!! Someone else who actually gets this site and understands how most of us feel about these pathetic attempts to prophecise. A well put reply Crossfate and I couldn't agree more.

Its not enough to just post up an apology that is hidden behind a pretense that you're not sorry and calling everyone 'whiners'. at the end of the day people like you and Dr Batstein fill this site with stuff that's based on no real research or evidence beyond your own paranoid fantasies. I, and many others on here, want to read about real, researched, interesting stuff and then hold intelligent discourse around it, sadly that kind of conspiracy is being overshadowed by the 'I just want stars, flags, first page and popularity' contest style predictions being thrown around left and right.

Originally posted by Snoopy1978

Originally posted by CrikeyMagnet

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
So loudly "speculating" about bombs while in an airplane or a fire in a packed theatre is ok too?

Words have meaning and stirring a panic, consequences.

Really? That's nonsense.

Are you a politician? This is actually a political approach to answering that tries to blow your opponent's statement out of proportion in order to make it seem absurd. I'm afraid the two positions do not mesh.

Are you a pundit? How do these position dont mesh? Elaborate please.

Yelling fire in a theatre is quite clearly different from stating fire in a discussion group about fire.

I can't be the only one thinking that it's perfectly appropriate to discuss predictions in a prediction forum.

reply to post by Crossfate


100% is a big %. I'd suggest that the number was pulled from your mind to fit your agenda, and not based on analysis of every prediction that has ever ben posted here. That's not my argument. Just an observation.

Not every prediction has come with the shill defence. Lumping all predictions together with those that are defended in the face of 0 evidence is quite broad-reaching, don't you think? It also changes the argument. The OP was against demanding an apology for failed predictions... But I'm not against demanding an apology for people just being dicks.

reply to post by Duderood


If that is what you want to read about, the Predictions forum is wrong for you. Perhaps you'd be happier with a "Current Events"?

Speaking as a member and not on behalf of ATS as a whole...

Speculation and exploration of potentials is exactly what ATS is all about. We want to see the trends earlier on in the process than everybody else. It's why I come here.

But there is a stigma attached to this particular little corner of the Internet... the "c" word "conspiracy"... There are many people who write us all off as nutters simply for being on ATS.

When we couch our speculation in grandiose, all caps, definitive, attention grabbing style - with language that suggests not only speculation - but some sort of hidden knowledge... Well we just add fuel to the fire of the undo criticisms we already face from mainstream society.

My point is speculate all day long - just do it in a responsible, rational, and productive way. I much prefer to see the words "I think" than to see speculation couched in some arcane, new-age, metaphysical, cocoon which tries to infer authority where none exists.

I hope this helps.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


Yes. Agreed. The hostile "shill" response is not confined to the Predictions area, but it does show up a lot. What I am against is those who are demanding an apology for suggesting something appears likely based on the information we have, or on someone's interpretation of the cover-up/new release/current events of that information.

I tend to be stereotypically Canadian sometimes, in that I will routinely apologize on reflex for things I don't need to apologize for. (I also live in an igloo, and take a dogsled to work, but that's for another discussion.) If I were demanded to apologize for one of these things that would be reflexively apologized for, I would have to make a counteroffer involving where to go, and how to get there. Where I take issue is in the demand of an apology for the act of predicting itself, when clearly the issue is not with predictions in general, but with "The Shilling Effect" (Can I coin that term?), where if you have no further argument material you just attack the personality of the person you're arguing with.

I think that's a horse that has legs, and by gum, I'd back that horse! (That sounds funny in my head, because I said it in an old-timey newsreel voice. "Dateline November 1943! Nazis on the move!")