Canadian House of Commons question period

Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin held the first Question Period of the new session of Parliament under the minority Liberal government. The debate focused on U.S.-Canada relations, electoral reform and the environment.

I had the chance to see this on CSPAN last night. Towards the end, a member from British Columbia stood up and asked why the prime minister had appointed a person to the foreign ministry who had said many unkind things about the United States ( I won't repeat them here, but they were pretty inflamitory let me tell ya), and whether the Prime minister was going to replace her since Canada and the US were such close and unshakable friends.

The answer given by the PM's rep didn't surprise me, typical political doublespeak which really says nothing at all. What surprised me was the response to the question. A standing and somewhat prolonged ovation from a large majority of the House. It warmed my heart to see such support for the US in Canada's government. The only people who weren't applauding the member from BC appeared to be the contingent from Quebec. This I can understand, after the anti-France retoric being bandied about in the US.

I find myself wondering if this is the attitude of the majority of Canadians? The reason I ask this is because of the generally anti-US sentiments expressed here on ATS by those members who identify themselves as being from Canada. I certainly could be wrong about my previous statement, perhaps the only statements I notice are the negative ones. In which case I apologize to my Canadian neighbors.

Anyway, would any of the Canadians care to respond as to what the actual attitude of the average Canadian is towards the southern province (as my sister who lives in Edmonton calls the US)?

I can only answer for myself... but I'll say that culturally and commercially, a lot of Canadians have enough ties with Americans to know better than to confuse the U.S. and its policies. True, 85 percent of us hope Bush won't get reelected. But that's a judgement on Bush, not on America. I for one believe that disagreeing with U.S. policy is one thing... hating all Americans for it is a step I'll never take. And I'll happily speak up against anyone who promotes hate against all Americans.

I concur with Otts... I don't hate all Americans. By and large, I know that Americans are good folk. Unfortunately, there is a fair part of the American population who promotes animosity and contempt towards your northward neighboors. Now those people are a different story...

DE

Well, I would hope that most folks agreed with you, but I have seen some pretty rabid statements on ATS. I have visited Canada many times, but not since the war in Iraq started. I was wondering if that had changed attitudes so drastically from the last time I was there.

That, and the verbal and political abuse certain close minded Americans heap on us. Oh, and the fact that your country mauled two of our major industries, and are working on a third. That didn't help people in the least. Neither did the gung-ho attitude, by the way. I'm not accusing you, but there enough people who epouse a 'US uber alles' attitude which grates on Canadian souls so...

DE

Montana - I still think you'll be welcomed warmly next time you visit us. I would be appalled if you were profiled in Canada as an American.

I've always been greeted with a joy and a lot of curiosity when I went to the United States - in the past year I've been to Atlanta and Cleveland (for sci-fi conventions) as well as San Jose (to see my girlfriend who lives there). By and large, it's reinforced my opinion that politics aside, Americans are, just like Canadians, people trying to make a living and lead a happy life. I think there's a lot to be said for being able to know that politics are one thing, human values are another.

What I deplore is that we seem to live in times where we are asked to choose sides, and where our nationality - whether we're Canadian, French, American or British - risks becoming a liability. And the way I've seen some posters acting on this board towards people of different nationalities makes me believe more than ever that if we're going to keep on understanding each other, we must remember that above politics, we are, as I said, basically people trying to make a living and be happy the best way we know how.

EDITED TO ADD: We must also remember that NONE of us as individuals should be made responsible for the actions of our governements.

[edit on 11-10-2004 by Otts]

Originally posted by Otts
I still think you'll be welcomed warmly next time you visit us.

My wife took one of her Girl Scout troops to the West Edmonton Mall this summer. She didn't have any problems, but then who could be angry at a bunch of cute little girls!!

What I deplore is that we seem to live in times where we are asked to choose sides,...

It's always been my opinion that we should all be AMERICANS first and foremost. Some people seem to think that 'American' means being from the US, but everyone who lives in the western hemisphere is an American. 'Course I am partial to the North American variety! hee hee (Mexico included)

We must also remember that NONE of us as individuals should be made responsible for the actions of our governements.

Hmmmm... yes and no, we have to bear SOME responsibility since we live in democracies. We elected them to office. Still, they never seem to do what we wanted them to do.

Originally posted by DeusEx
Oh, and the fact that your country mauled two of our major industries, and are working on a third.

Which industries are you thinking of DE?

Originally posted by Montana

It's always been my opinion that we should all be AMERICANS first and foremost.

Strange way your government, media, and fellow citizens have of showing it. Turn on Fox or CNN, and try not to catch a story full of Canadian bashing. I appreciate people like you, and so does every other Canadian. The problem is that the travellers from teh States have a lot of stigma attached to them - I've seen the American tourists acting all crazy, and I've seen worse passing through.

For instance, it should be a crime against humanity to serve grits to anyone, anytime.

DE

Originally posted by Montana

Originally posted by DeusEx
Oh, and the fact that your country mauled two of our major industries, and are working on a third.

Which industries are you thinking of DE?

Softwood lumber, beef, and right now Ford is working over our auto industry like a cheap mule.

DE

Hmmmm... yes and no, we have to bear SOME responsibility since we live in democracies. We elected them to office. Still, they never seem to do what we wanted them to do.

Theoretically, yes. If we abdicate responsibility as a nation, we forfeit the legitimity of our government. However... I can't say I've ever seen a Canadian government I was 100 percent satisfied with... or hell, even 75 percent satisfied with!

Otts, right now I'd take 25% and count myself lucky!


DE- Yeah, I can see beef. All because a few cases of BSE, only to find it in washington a few months later. This is a serious sickness that needs to be dealt with in a serious way. But banning ALL of it? Doesn't seem the right answer to me.

As for softwoods, the railroad I work on sure seems to be hauling a vast amount of Canadian lumber from BC. On the order of a hundred or more flatcars a day just on my little section. This is all transloads from BC Rail for the most part. I also have to say that the lumber companies down here seem to feel the other way about things. Who knows the real truth? Our governments won't tell us thats for sure.

Now Ford I don't know much about. Could you tell us some of what's happening there?

Ford plant near me might get wiped off the map because of crappy accounting proccess, despite the funding that the government was offering to help them start a new plant in Oshawa. It employs hundred and hundreds of people.

As for the wood brough in, are you sure its softwood?

DE

DeusEx - don't forget, however, that New England is a HUGE market for Quebec's hydroelectricity... and what really flatters me is that a lot of the time, when I take Delta Airlines or United Airlines for a short transit flight to the U.S., I fly in a CRJ (Canadian Regional Jet) built by Bombardier.

And Montana - forget about the politics anyway, I friggin' wanna RV accross all of the Western United States!

Well, it all says pine, fir and larch on it, those are softwoods right? Or are we talking about something different?

I remember something about the auto plant in Toronto, I think. Isn't that the only plant allowed to make certain models of Fords. Something to do with labor agreements or something?

The stuffed shirts must want to move that plant to South America as they have already done with so many of ours.

Originally posted by Montana
Well, it all says pine, fir and larch on it, those are softwoods right? Or are we talking about something different?

Yeah, true. All I know is that the lumber industry was sent reeling lately. Maybe it was a tax or tariff or something.

I remember something about the auto plant in Toronto, I think. Isn't that the only plant allowed to make certain models of Fords. Something to do with labor agreements or something?

The stuffed shirts must want to move that plant to South America as they have already done with so many of ours.

That would be the Oakville plant, and it makes mostly vans. And I have no clue where they'd want to move it. last I heard, vans weren't seeling that great, but trucks were. But they would rather abbandon the plant than retool it or something. I know a few line grunts who only know that they might not have a job much longer.

DE

Otts- Yeah, but RV's are sooooo last year! Ya gotta do the teardrop trailer thing now. Semms like they're everywhere anymore. I'm not sure I could fit in one. I think ya gotta be kinda short to lay flat in the bed.

DE- I only heard one side of the wood arguement down here, but as I recall the US mills were complaining about Canadian subsidies and had a fit until the US congress passed tariffs to offset them. Like I said, I only heard one side, and it could be that they were using that as an excuse to gain a market advantage. The tariffs could also have been out of proportion to the subsidies. I don't know for sure one way or the other. I do know that we are hauling a LOT of Canadian lumber still, though.

Losing a job due to corporation greed is something near and dear to my heart, as I can see myself in that same situation in the near future. The class 1 railroads down here all want to go to having only one person in the locomotive cab in stead of conductor and engineer. This dispite astronomical profits. Probably in the order of 30 or 40,000 jobs on the block there. Anybody need a conductor - cheap?

I know that a number of commercial questions between the US and Canada have been taken before the WTO - a lot of them concerning concerns about subsidizing seen as "unfair". I can't speak on the softwood issue, of which I know jack - but I know that in the 1980s, the American government couldn't understand the concept of CBC/Radio-Canada (subsidized national TV) which it saw as unfair competition (but again, damn, hate quoting from hearsay, have to find sources!)

I fly regularly over the American West when I go see my girlfriend in California. And Colorado, Utah and Nevada, seen from above, make me wish I was down there!

All I can say Otts is that if you throw a bone in the middle of a pack of dogs they will fight over it whether they are hungry or not. Our governments seem to act just like that sometimes.

I guess that just goes to show that we are all one species (American) after all. Unfortunately I think I must be a Basset Hound.